Ralph Conway wrote:
Imo it (60D) is not an option. Like I mentioned above, it does not feel good in my hands.
Next to this its AF is as sensitive* but not as reliable like my 5D IIs is (imo). IQ is difficult to accept (even it is great) once you went FF.

That, I suppose, is not the most important thing, but the body needs to be reasonably well featured yet as compact as possible. I understand that by choosing FF I'm cutting myself (or, to be more precise, my wife) from the slew of great and inexpensive wideangle lenses, but since I have not one, but two decent FF wides already, it's less of a concern (though I'm sure the 14 will suffer greatly on full frame as it would no longer benefit from crop factor of any kind).


I need higher ISO very often and of course using it needs a more sensitive AF system, too:

* http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1165802/0#11115805
That has been my imperative too, yes.

Snopchenko wrote:
That, I suppose, is not the most important thing, but the body needs to be reasonably well featured yet as compact as possible. I understand that by choosing FF I'm cutting myself (or, to be more precise, my wife) from the slew of great and inexpensive wideangle lenses, but since I have not one, but two decent FF wides already, it's less of a concern (though I'm sure the 14 will suffer greatly on full frame as it would no longer benefit from crop factor of any kind).


I am confused. How would a wide angle lens suffer on a full frame camera? I suppose with FF the extreme corners that might not be sharp on a crop are now visible?

Personally, I'd rather have my wides be wide.

leftymgp wrote:
Snopchenko wrote:
That, I suppose, is not the most important thing, but the body needs to be reasonably well featured yet as compact as possible. I understand that by choosing FF I'm cutting myself (or, to be more precise, my wife) from the slew of great and inexpensive wideangle lenses, but since I have not one, but two decent FF wides already, it's less of a concern (though I'm sure the 14 will suffer greatly on full frame as it would no longer benefit from crop factor of any kind).


I am confused. How would a wide angle lens suffer on a full frame camera? I suppose with FF the extreme corners that might not be sharp on a crop are now visible?

That, and the fact that many great APS-C wides are no longer usable.
My 14 is noticeably unsharp in the corners even on the 1.3x crop body until f/6.3 or so.


Personally, I'd rather have my wides be wide.
Sure, but really few are good on the widest extremity until stopped way down, innit? (Nikon 14-24... *sigh*)

Snopchenko wrote:
That, I suppose, is not the most important thing, but the body needs to be reasonably well featured yet as compact as possible. I understand that by choosing FF I'm cutting myself (or, to be more precise, my wife) from the slew of great and inexpensive wideangle lenses, but since I have not one, but two decent FF wides already, it's less of a concern (though I'm sure the 14 will suffer greatly on full frame as it would no longer benefit from crop factor of any kind).

leftymgp wrote:
I am confused. How would a wide angle lens suffer on a full frame camera? I suppose with FF the extreme corners that might not be sharp on a crop are now visible?

Personally, I'd rather have my wides be wide.

Snopchenko wrote:
That, and the fact that many great APS-C wides are no longer usable.
My 14 is noticeably unsharp in the corners even on the 1.3x crop body until f/6.3 or so.
Sure, but really few are good on the widest extremity until stopped way down, innit? (Nikon 14-24... *sigh*)


(TS-E 17/4L, ZE 21/2.8, TS-E 24/3.5L II...)

I forgot to add that MF = no go.
Maybe the Samyang 24mm Tilt/Shift sometime... but way down the line and not in lieu of an AF lens... I have the 14 and 16-35 so one of these would be shared, I'm just aware that even the 16-35 suddenly becomes not so hot on FF.

... the changeable focus screens are another point that makes the 6D even more interesting for me. I use a split screen in my 5D II and manual focusing/correction is as easy and efficient like with my minolta from former film days. I would not purchase any camera that does not offer great MF capabillities no matter how good the AF-system works. If it works not like I wish, I need the possibility of MF. And of course I want the freedom to use any great EF mount lens even if it does not support AF.

Ralph

Ralph - thanks for all the input here.

Did you happen to notice if the 6D has the same black box focus point instead of the traditional red box when you push down the shutter? The 5D3 uses the black box. Personally I don't like it as well.

Cphoto1954 wrote:
Ralph - thanks for all the input here.

Did you happen to notice if the 6D has the same black box focus point instead of the traditional red box when you push down the shutter? The 5D3 uses the black box. Personally I don't like it as well.



It is the fixed AF point solution from 5D, 5D II and all the xxDs and rebells (as far I remember). I did not really look for it, but the system was as familiar like I knew it from my 5D II. That is why Focusing screens are exchangeable, I guess.

Ralph Conway wrote:
Cphoto1954 wrote:
Ralph - thanks for all the input here.

Did you happen to notice if the 6D has the same black box focus point instead of the traditional red box when you push down the shutter? The 5D3 uses the black box. Personally I don't like it as well.



It is the fixed AF point solution from 5D, 5D II and all the xxDs and rebells (as far I remember). I did not really look for it, but the system was as familiar like I knew it from my 5D II. That is why Focusing screens are exchangeable, I guess.



The 6D uses the older Red illuminated confirm focus just like Ralph suggests (pre 7D, 5D3, 1DX)

Also, some info on the 5D3 fix or non fix
http://www.petapixel.com/2012/11/15/canon-1d-x-af-illumination-may-not-be-possible-on-the-5d-mark-iii/

Thank you, Jerry.

Thanks guys that's good news.

If you shot a 5D II (like me the last 2.5 years) 6D feels common, but better in any case.
The only (real) disapointment I felt, was the missing joystick (instead there is a 60D like center-switch within the back wheel). I do not like SD cards, too. But even the fastest are cheaper than CF-cards. 1/4000th as fastest exposure time ... - I really never (N-E-V-E-R) needed 1/8000th. Others might need it, I do not care about loosing it.
But Hell! I really want to see some more sample pics now, Canon! High ISO! And High ISO surely does not mean ISO 3.200 or 6.400! That is last generation high ISO imo.

Ralph

Give us some ISO 12K or 24K we can talk about. Best in raw AND jpeg ...

Give us some examples of the worth of -3 EV center AF point, we can talk about. If you you are not able, give me a 6D. I can show you and the world why it makes sense!

Sorry to say this. But Canon, what drives me crazy is: Announcement before photokina. Available in December (Canon on photokina, my dealer), available 1st of January (Amazon germany - but hell NOTHING is available on first of January) and available March (Amazon UK).

Are you still developing? Why you can not just announce, introduce AND deliver a product? Is it still not in development? Do you fear you can not deliver huge amounts for the beginning?

This camera will sell very slow from beginning (because of a 200 € cheaper D600 and a 300 € more expensive D800). But I am pretty sure, sales will grow every day. And like 5D II it will become one of the bestselling (pro) cameras ever. Because D600 is a consumer camera and D800 is not needed by many. Like with the 5 series the "6" will define a new level of body: It will give you most what you need and nothing you would like to have but what is not necessary. Of course, for this IQ has to be best.

Ralph, this early sell, deliver later, has always been Canon's "WAY" for decades. There has almost always been a 2/3/4 month waiting before actual release. Canon did this in the film days and when AF was first introduced, it was the lack of "product on shelf" that turned me off AF until 1998 when I purchased my first EOS-3.

Nikon mostly does the exact opposite, Canon likes to tease, build up interest, I doubt either company will change given their successes.

As for the 6D, I'm in complete agreement! I'm not even thinking that IQ could be anything less than your 5D2 or the 5D3; a few less MPs means nothing; well RAW file size will be a bit smaller

I hope you're 1st on the ship-to-list, I'm waiting for your review...patiently

I will try to get one early. But I guess there will be no review like most here might expect. It would be more like an illustrated diary. I would try a lot of stuff I guess that would not as easy possible with 5D II or any other camera. I would show you the pictures I did instead of comparing features.

I was doing a quick indoor portrait last night and my AF was hunting on my 5Dc...thought about the 6D.

I was tooling around with a friend's 10" tablet, viewing photos and thinking about the 6D.

I was holding my 5Dc and realized that I never quite enjoyed the way it felt in my hands...thought about the 6D.

Ralph Conway wrote:
I will try to get one early. But I guess there will be no review like most here might expect. It would be more like an illustrated diary. I would try a lot of stuff I guess that would not as easy possible with 5D II or any other camera. I would show you the pictures I did instead of comparing features.

Ralph,
A working diary would be wonderful, you have the 5D2 for comparison. It's the 6D's AF capabilities; low light, IQ and high ISO that interest me most. As for features, mostly fluff for me! The only other areas of interest would be weight, balance and the LCD; Liveview and the WiFi connection.
Thanks,
Jerry

I think Canon had to say something when Nikon's D600 was sprung. With the superior sensor on the Nikon camera Canon would have been concerned that Canon customers would switch across to Nikon for this segment. I myself, with a 7D setup for wildlife, considered buying a 600D and a couple of lenses for landscape style work, but I'm now holding off to see what Canon delivers. I think in the end this 6D will live or die on the quality of it's sensor. There was a time when Canon was not afraid to introduce advances into its Rebel series before the xxD series, I believe many hope that this will be repeated with the 6D. The sensor has to at least match that of the 600D or Canon will lose face and sales.