6D - hands on & first experience
/forum/topic/1150348/1

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vchowdhary
Registered: Jul 12, 2009
Total Posts: 1190
Country: N/A

If the 6D has improved the focus abilities on the edge points over the 5D Mark II that would be great.

What I find odd is - when expectations are low, people complain less.

I have had the 5D Mark II and hardly ever complained about the left/right AF points being nearly useless and stuck to the center point.
The D700, 7d etc had no such issues.
So when I got my D800 and found left AF issues, man was I pissed!!!

So much that I returned 2 cameras with the left AF issue, even though every image that came out of them was atleast as good if not better than anything that came out of my D700, D3, 7D, 5D Mark II etc.

I think the expectations that a company sets early can make problems for them.

Crappy non center AF points.. for 3 years, then fix them and people will claim it is the second coming of Jesus.
Great AF points all round, and you find 1 wrong and people will throw poop at the fan.



StillFingerz
Registered: Jul 29, 2010
Total Posts: 2896
Country: United States

Ralph, thank you for this early hands on report, and for the 5D2/24-105 images you sent a few moths back. Center AF is mostly all I use, later tonight I'll be shooting a friends soccer game in High School stadium lights, the enhanced center point sensitivity and high ISO would be great for my f4L glass.

The low price point and other features of the 6D made me smile, your write-up so far makes that smile a bit wider, looking forward to the rest of your report/thoughts. The 6D might just be my ticket into FF...let's see it's IQ; RAW output

Well done Sir,
Jerry



Ralph Conway
Registered: Jul 31, 2008
Total Posts: 3757
Country: Germany

StillFingerz wrote:
The 6D might just be my ticket into FF...let's see it's IQ; RAW output

Well done Sir,
Jerry


I did not do anything, Jerry. Just tried to satisfy my own curiosity.
I wish I could find out about its IQ/raw output. But I am pretty sure I have to wait.
There was not a second beeing without the presentation guys, who did not allow to put in a card.
The SD card only on the other side is what I really doen´t like - my fingers are not used to handle micro pieces ...



StillFingerz
Registered: Jul 29, 2010
Total Posts: 2896
Country: United States

Ralph Conway wrote:
StillFingerz wrote:
The 6D might just be my ticket into FF...let's see it's IQ; RAW output

Well done Sir,
Jerry


I did not do anything, Jerry. Just tried to satisfy my own curiosity.
I wish I could find out about its IQ/raw output. But I am pretty sure I have to wait.
There was not a second beeing without the presentation guys, who did not allow to put in a card.
The SD card only on the other side is what I really doen´t like - my fingers are not used to handle micro pieces ...


Ralph, you made me smile, your report begins to confirm that the 6D isn't a piece of crap tech
As for images, you were probably shooting with a pre-production model, the firmware might still be in .9x release at the show and thus no images for you to take home and pixel peep just yet.
And, yeah, I understood about SD cards, they feel paper thin, easy to break/fold; I've a G12

Cheers,
Jerry



M Lucca
Registered: Oct 19, 2011
Total Posts: 1027
Country: Holy See

You should check the outer AF points under AI Servo. This is where the good old 5d/2 stumbles. For static subjects the outer points are ok.

-3v seems pretty impressive.



Brit-007
Registered: Jul 22, 2004
Total Posts: 2198
Country: United States

Great job Ralph. The other thread was really bashing this model without even seeing it. I nearly put something in there to the effect that it does not really matter how few focus points are there as long as they work. You have at least confirmed they appear to be working well.



RobDickinson
Registered: Sep 25, 2009
Total Posts: 3211
Country: New Zealand

Should be able to transmit via wifi to your phone or something without an SD card in it? next time..



chez
Registered: Nov 26, 2003
Total Posts: 7252
Country: Canada

M Lucca wrote:
You should check the outer AF points under AI Servo. This is where the good old 5d/2 stumbles. For static subjects the outer points are ok.

-3v seems pretty impressive.


I really don't have any issues with my 5D2 outer focus point in good light. They suck in poor light, but work OK for me in good light.



Johnny B Goode
Registered: Jan 15, 2012
Total Posts: 434
Country: United States

Thank you for the good review (anything to push down prices of the used mkii market)

jk.



well, not really.



Ralph Conway
Registered: Jul 31, 2008
Total Posts: 3757
Country: Germany

vchowdhary wrote:
If the 6D has improved the focus abilities on the edge points over the 5D Mark II that would be great.

What I find odd is - when expectations are low, people complain less.

I have had the 5D Mark II and hardly ever complained about the left/right AF points being nearly useless and stuck to the center point.
The D700, 7d etc had no such issues.
So when I got my D800 and found left AF issues, man was I pissed!!!

So much that I returned 2 cameras with the left AF issue, even though every image that came out of them was atleast as good if not better than anything that came out of my D700, D3, 7D, 5D Mark II etc.

I think the expectations that a company sets early can make problems for them.

Crappy non center AF points.. for 3 years, then fix them and people will claim it is the second coming of Jesus.
Great AF points all round, and you find 1 wrong and people will throw poop at the fan.


I think this is a normal and understandable reaction: A step back in features one accepted as "normal" always make people unhappy.

What I do not understand is when people start moaning about a new item that has no predecessor while comparing it to an other one costing twice or three times as much. Like my friend, comparing 6D with his 1D X and saying: "All plastic!". I understand, he moans about "only -2 EV" in his camera, because it is not in. But I think it is quite normal, that a smaller, lighter and much cheaper camera does not have the same build quality.

If the IQ reaches 5D III standards in raw and jpeg I will be very happy. I do not need D800s Exmor level. No one of my customers asks for this. Neither me. But of course I do not understand, why D600 offers the same native ISO D800 does while having 2/3rd of its resolution. And of course I wish/expect 6Ds IQ somewhere in between 5D III and 1D X myself ... .
But really important for me is that I can go two stops above 5D II. For that I would of course accept the different (cheaper?) build of this new series.

Ralph



RobDickinson
Registered: Sep 25, 2009
Total Posts: 3211
Country: New Zealand

2 stops above the 5dII? FOUR times more sensitive? when the 1Dx and 5d3 have shown only marginal improvements and are as good as nikons offerings.

.. unlikely!



Ralph Conway
Registered: Jul 31, 2008
Total Posts: 3757
Country: Germany

RobDickinson wrote:
Should be able to transmit via wifi to your phone or something without an SD card in it? next time..


I am one of this old fashioned guys.
I do not really care about Wifi or GPS. I do not own a tablet and would never use my phone for directing my camera. I need to feel it in my hands. The smart thing on my smartphone is that I can use it for phonecalls and can switch of all the offered features like internet etc. - and most time I still can remember where I shot which picture. Maybe that will change depending on dementia (?) or because I start to write and shoot travell articles. That does not mean those new features are not good and welcome. I just do not need them (now)



Paul_K
Registered: Jul 22, 2010
Total Posts: 80
Country: Netherlands

Ralph Conway wrote:
RobDickinson wrote:
Should be able to transmit via wifi to your phone or something without an SD card in it? next time..


I am one of this old fashioned guys.
I do not really care about Wifi or GPS. I do not own a tablet and would never use my phone for directing my camera. I need to feel it in my hands. The smart thing on my smartphone is that I can use it for phonecalls and can switch of all the offered features like internet etc. - and most time I still can remember where I shot which picture. Maybe that will change depending on dementia (?) or because I start to write and shoot travell articles. That does not mean those new features are not good and welcome. I just do not need them (now)


+1



RobDickinson
Registered: Sep 25, 2009
Total Posts: 3211
Country: New Zealand

I'm so looking forward to being able to control my camera & see critical focus on my 24tse from my 7 inch phone..



Ralph Conway
Registered: Jul 31, 2008
Total Posts: 3757
Country: Germany

RobDickinson wrote:
2 stops above the 5dII? FOUR times more sensitive? when the 1Dx and 5d3 have shown only marginal improvements and are as good as nikons offerings.

.. unlikely!


Wrong explanation from me again. Sorry. After tests I did I would easily offer my clients ISO 12.800 or 25k images done with 5D MK III (does not matter if developed raws or ooc jpegs). I would not do with most ISO 6.400 images out of my 5D II). If this is possible with 6D shots, I would be happy.



timpdx
Registered: Feb 02, 2005
Total Posts: 1767
Country: United States

Good to hear about the center AF point, that is what I mostly use anyways, when I had a 7D I noticed how much better it shot in dark situations than the 5D. I think I may be upgrading if the noise levels are a noticible improvement.



vchowdhary
Registered: Jul 12, 2009
Total Posts: 1190
Country: N/A

Ralph Conway wrote:
vchowdhary wrote:
If the 6D has improved the focus abilities on the edge points over the 5D Mark II that would be great.

What I find odd is - when expectations are low, people complain less.

I have had the 5D Mark II and hardly ever complained about the left/right AF points being nearly useless and stuck to the center point.
The D700, 7d etc had no such issues.
So when I got my D800 and found left AF issues, man was I pissed!!!

So much that I returned 2 cameras with the left AF issue, even though every image that came out of them was atleast as good if not better than anything that came out of my D700, D3, 7D, 5D Mark II etc.

I think the expectations that a company sets early can make problems for them.

Crappy non center AF points.. for 3 years, then fix them and people will claim it is the second coming of Jesus.
Great AF points all round, and you find 1 wrong and people will throw poop at the fan.


I think this is a normal and understandable reaction: A step back in features one accepted as "normal" always make people unhappy.

What I do not understand is when people start moaning about a new item that has no predecessor while comparing it to an other one costing twice or three times as much. Like my friend, comparing 6D with his 1D X and saying: "All plastic!". I understand, he moans about "only -2 EV" in his camera, because it is not in. But I think it is quite normal, that a smaller, lighter and much cheaper camera does not have the same build quality.

If the IQ reaches 5D III standards in raw and jpeg I will be very happy. I do not need D800s Exmor level. No one of my customers asks for this. Neither me. But of course I do not understand, why D600 offers the same native ISO D800 does while having 2/3rd of its resolution. And of course I wish/expect 6Ds IQ somewhere in between 5D III and 1D X myself ... .
But really important for me is that I can go two stops above 5D II. For that I would of course accept the different (cheaper?) build of this new series.

Ralph




While I was underwhelmed by the 6D compared to the 5D mark III, I felt the same way when comparing the D600 to the D800. Ofcourse my only contention are the relative price points the cameras are at compared to the previous generation cameras. Nothing wrong with wanting more for less

Ofcourse, compared to the newer/more expensive cousins, the features they bring to the table on there own are quite good and the price points not terrible.



stargazer78
Registered: Jan 19, 2009
Total Posts: 370
Country: United States

Interesting note about the EOS 6D AF: Its tracking and AF lock sensitivity can be adjusted 5D3-style. I didn't expect such a feature in the camera, especially since Canon had removed the 6 assist points from the 6D (essentially castrating A.I. Servo mode).

For those people lucky enough to have hands-on experience with the 6D, please check:

  1. Does silent shutter mode work as well as it did on the 5D3?

  2. Does the "Q" menu allow exposure compensation when shooting M mode with Auto ISO?

  3. Can Auto-ISO be set to any minimum shutter speed, or are there only 8 pre-defined minimum shutter speeds to choose from?


n0b0
Registered: Sep 22, 2008
Total Posts: 5654
Country: Australia

Thanks for the report Ralph. But now I'm a bit torn about this camera's AF.

Being able to focus reliably and quickly in the dark with the center AF is great but then again, I never really shoot handheld in such a dark place as the one you described and when I do, the camera is usually on a tripod with me using the LV to focus.

I do however, use the camera in fairly low light condition, and with my 7D I can still reliably focus using one of the outer AF point in condition as dark as ISO3200, 1/30s with wide open f/1.4 aperture without having to recompose the shot.

So now that I'm used to using the outer AF points, I'm not sure if I can live with only the center AF most of the time. I look forward to more in-depth reviews in the coming months before making a decision.

I still reckon the outer AF points should've been cross type though.



boingyman
Registered: Jun 29, 2012
Total Posts: 755
Country: United States

Very cool to hear so far. When the 6D was being rumored recently my expectations were at least equal IQ, high ISO abilities and dynamic range as the 5D2, anything better is a bonus. I did expect outer cross type points, but since I really do not know how good or terrible they are yet on the 6D I'm being neutral on the subject until more testing is done...so far your news sounds pretty good, especially the hopefully mind blowing center point. Things like GPS is just a bonus and wifi does sound good depending on it's limitations. 1/4000, 1/180 sync are minor downgrades to me. +5 bracketing would have been sweet for my landscaping needs, but nothing major. I'm cool with a SD card since I don't own CF cards.

How does the wheel and pad feel compared to a 60D? I don't own a 60D, but the handful of times I picked it up I definitely preferred the traditional wheel and joystick setup much more as the pad just seemed sticky/soft and not clicky enough if that makes anysense...this again is just a minor issue.

Anyway I'm really hoping once it's released and the outer AF points are better than expected I will definitely snag this instead of spending more for a 5D3. The $ I save will hopefully allow me to get more glass/accessories I want quicker.



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