Leica R lenses on the new M camera
/forum/topic/1149753/1

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Gunzorro
Registered: Aug 28, 2010
Total Posts: 6063
Country: United States

sebboh -- Thanks! Of course you are right -- auto aperture is totally unneeded with rangefinder, and stopped down works better for LV showing DOF. Gracias!



slungu
Registered: Jan 25, 2005
Total Posts: 876
Country: Germany

Sorry but for R lenses I see no difference : it is just another body that can use them with an adapter, as could be done with the canons and all the mirrorless cams.



Almass
Registered: Feb 11, 2011
Total Posts: 449
Country: United Kingdom

Gunzorro wrote:
Almass -- When you say "supported" I assume you only mean the electronic ROM versions, right? The others will be usable, but no profiles or auto-aperture?


telyt wrote:
Gunzorro wrote:
Almass -- When you say "supported" I assume you only mean the electronic ROM versions, right? The others will be usable, but no profiles or auto-aperture?


I don't think we know about auto-aperture yet.


Other R lenses can be mounted but will not avail of the lenses profile.

And yes, I mean electronic ROM versions.

Auto-aperture implemented? They make no mention of such. We need to wait for the lucky testers what they come up with?

As for the lenses dropped out of the list, the 90AA is deafening with it's absence, probably because the same exists in the M version.

No mention of the R Modules as well! or the Extenders!
I assume these will be available for the M with Ostrich leather and Naquadac screens in the future?

My predictions are for a strong demand of the:

- Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm f/2.8
- Summilux-R 80mm f/1.4
- Apo-Macro-Elmarit-R 100mm f/2.8
- Apo-Elmarit-R 180mm f/2.8
- Apo-Telyt-R 280mm f/4

- Vario-Apo-Elmarit-R 70180mm f/2.8
- Vario-Elmar-R 80200mm f/4

The bets are on!



ZoneV
Registered: Nov 20, 2008
Total Posts: 838
Country: Germany

Gunzorro wrote:
sebboh -- Thanks! Of course you are right -- auto aperture is totally unneeded with rangefinder, and stopped down works better for LV showing DOF. Gracias!


Not sure about this. I supoose at low light or macro situations a open iris would still help focussing, much less gain / ISO / exposure time needed.
For macro the open iris would help to nail focus on insects eyes I think.

Furthermore an adapter with using the iris could make live easier with programm automatic and such. Or even a kind of apodization filtering (with electronic shutter or times not longer than X-sync)

But what I read about the adapter it seems to have no iris manipulation.



mcbroomf
Registered: Mar 18, 2003
Total Posts: 2211
Country: United States

I wonder if some longer R lenses may be put back into production and/or tweaked. I can now see a market for a tilt/shift lens design.

Mike



Bijltje
Registered: Jun 29, 2004
Total Posts: 758
Country: Netherlands

Taylor Sherman wrote:
I don't know if the price will go up that much. I think there are many more non-Leica EVIL camera users out there looking to R lenses than there will be owners of the M for a while.

Of course, the M owners might have deeper pockets. . . but empty pockets after they pony up for the M

Still, I'm maybe wishing I'd gone for an 100 APO instead of the 100/2 MP I got a few weeks ago for my Nex. . . .


I don't think many existing M users will buy into R lenses. The standard lenses and wide angle lenses all have a M counterpart. Why use a R 50lux if there is the great M50lux with also gives rangefinder coupling and a better size.

That leaves lenses above 135mm (since there is the great M 135 lens also) and macro lenses.
Why would they buy those kind of lenses if they apparently never wanted them before. If they did need makro and tele they never staid with the M and already used the R system, or now EOS.

So I don't really see a reason why existing M user suddenly gonna buy R lenses.



artur5
Registered: Oct 09, 2005
Total Posts: 439
Country: Andorra

No auto aperture for R lenses of course. It's gonna be like using them in a Canikony reflex or a mirrorless.
The current M mount doesn't supports any kind of mechanical or electric control over the iris of the M lenses. An automated M-R aperture adapter would need a mechanical lever to actuate the iris of the R lenses. They could only do that with a motorized device having electric contacts on the body side which, on the other part, would imply a significant modification of the original M mount, adding a new series of pins for powering and controlling the adapter.
Obviously if the new M had a modified mount we would know it already either from the pictures or from Leica's written/verbal information.
Anyway, as others said, stop down focusing/metering isn't an issue anymore with Liveview and EVF.



ZoneV
Registered: Nov 20, 2008
Total Posts: 838
Country: Germany

Yes it seems there is no automated iris operation.
I still think it would have helped in some cases.



AhamB
Registered: Jul 11, 2008
Total Posts: 4855
Country: Germany

slungu wrote:
Sorry but for R lenses I see no difference : it is just another body that can use them with an adapter, as could be done with the canons and all the mirrorless cams.


Not to mention Leitax (it was originally conceived to adapt Leica R on Pentax).



carstenw
Registered: Dec 26, 2005
Total Posts: 14905
Country: Germany

Almass wrote:
My predictions are for a strong demand of the:

- Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm f/2.8
- Summilux-R 80mm f/1.4
- Apo-Macro-Elmarit-R 100mm f/2.8
- Apo-Elmarit-R 180mm f/2.8
- Apo-Telyt-R 280mm f/4

- Vario-Apo-Elmarit-R 70180mm f/2.8
- Vario-Elmar-R 80200mm f/4

The bets are on!


No need for the 80/1.4, there is an equivalent 75/1.4, which is possibly even a bit sharper (I have owned both).

And what about the 21-35 and 28-90? Both great lenses with no M equivalent.



carstenw
Registered: Dec 26, 2005
Total Posts: 14905
Country: Germany

Bijltje wrote:
I don't think many existing M users will buy into R lenses. The standard lenses and wide angle lenses all have a M counterpart. Why use a R 50lux if there is the great M50lux with also gives rangefinder coupling and a better size.

That leaves lenses above 135mm (since there is the great M 135 lens also) and macro lenses.
Why would they buy those kind of lenses if they apparently never wanted them before. If they did need makro and tele they never staid with the M and already used the R system, or now EOS.

So I don't really see a reason why existing M user suddenly gonna buy R lenses.


Because the best compromise they had before was just M lenses, but they really wanted a macro or tele lens?



rico
Registered: Jul 13, 2003
Total Posts: 3677
Country: United States

Bijltje wrote:
That leaves lenses above 135mm (since there is the great M 135 lens also) and macro lenses.
Why would they buy those kind of lenses if they apparently never wanted them before. If they did need makro and tele they never staid with the M and already used the R system, or now EOS.

So I don't really see a reason why existing M user suddenly gonna buy R lenses.

Revival of R production is an intriguing possibility. Many M users were, indeed, R users - such is the Leica mystique. What killed the R system IMO was the lack of a plausible digital offering (apologies to the R-module fanatics). Now that FF 135 is sprouting out of the woodwork, Leica can either commission a body from Asia and rebrand it, or build their own on the R9 template. Meanwhile, the R lenses are already engineered. M-only users can expand their lens options with macro/tele/zoom from the R side: an option that did not exist in the long period between the end of Visoflex and this new M with LV. Based on price point, image format and AF capability, I don't see any cannibalization of S sales by R.



edwardkaraa
Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Total Posts: 6861
Country: Thailand

carstenw wrote:
Bijltje wrote:
I don't think many existing M users will buy into R lenses. The standard lenses and wide angle lenses all have a M counterpart. Why use a R 50lux if there is the great M50lux with also gives rangefinder coupling and a better size.

That leaves lenses above 135mm (since there is the great M 135 lens also) and macro lenses.
Why would they buy those kind of lenses if they apparently never wanted them before. If they did need makro and tele they never staid with the M and already used the R system, or now EOS.

So I don't really see a reason why existing M user suddenly gonna buy R lenses.


Because the best compromise they had before was just M lenses, but they really wanted a macro or tele lens?


I see it differently. Now that the M is able to work with telephotos and macro lenses, I am sure Leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander will be tempted to offer a couple more M mount lenses to fill the gap.



buggz2k
Registered: Mar 10, 2010
Total Posts: 1552
Country: United States

ALL Leica M users, please disregard the Summilux-R 80/1.4
As I am thinking I want one of these, and, it really would not work great for you, trust me.
*8^)



joe88
Registered: Oct 23, 2009
Total Posts: 2206
Country: United States

I don't think Leica will revive the R lenses production, doesn't make sense commercially and they can't compete with Canon, Nikon ,etc... and who would pay $$ for a new R lens if there is no dedicated body to attach those lenses to? Leica already ave the S range which has AF and now zooms and tilt shift. All the S lenses are class leading optics.. it might make more sense that maybe in a few years time, it would be cheap enough to produce an S range of cameras below US$10,000 and then I think the rush for S lenses will start...

I like the idea of being able to do macro and tele work on a single platform on the Leica M. would be interesting to see how it works out.



edwardkaraa
Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Total Posts: 6861
Country: Thailand

Absolutely agreed, Joe. The R line is dead long ago.

But I wouldn't mind a smallish ZM 180/2.8 Sonnar and a ZM 85/2.8 Makro-Planar to go with the new M typ 240



ocean2059
Registered: Jul 16, 2008
Total Posts: 534
Country: United States

Leica may develop a compact 180/4 APO in the future since the new M has the EVF/LV.



Beni
Registered: May 31, 2005
Total Posts: 8051
Country: United Kingdom

Of course it's not just R lenses, have Leica not just made the first FF camera that can take practically any alt lens, whether rangefinder or not? Without corner issues either I assume. Won't take long for the adaptors to arrive now. The M9 price for a very simple M mount rangefinder has spawned an extremely versatile son...



freaklikeme
Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Total Posts: 5231
Country: United States

The adapters are available on eBay now. They've been slowly rolling out since the GXR's M-mount module was released.



artur5
Registered: Oct 09, 2005
Total Posts: 439
Country: Andorra

Right now, the only FF digital camera that can take practically any 35mm or bigger format lens is the Sony VG900. The Leica M can't take Contax G ( or Sony NEX )
Agreed, a videocam isn't exactly the ideal in ergonomics for a typical RF/SLR user, but using a long and heavy lens with a Leica M, isn't precisely a breeze, specially if you don't have the optional EVF. Imagine holding a Leica M + Apotelyt 280 at arms lenght ?. . Even with the EVF, the balance won't feel right for medium-long teles or zooms. Unless you use a tripod, much better to get a DSLR.



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