sebboh -- Thanks! Of course you are right -- auto aperture is totally unneeded with rangefinder, and stopped down works better for LV showing DOF. Gracias!

Sorry but for R lenses I see no difference : it is just another body that can use them with an adapter, as could be done with the canons and all the mirrorless cams.

Gunzorro wrote:
Almass -- When you say "supported" I assume you only mean the electronic ROM versions, right? The others will be usable, but no profiles or auto-aperture?

telyt wrote:
Gunzorro wrote:
Almass -- When you say "supported" I assume you only mean the electronic ROM versions, right? The others will be usable, but no profiles or auto-aperture?

I don't think we know about auto-aperture yet.

Other R lenses can be mounted but will not avail of the lenses profile.

And yes, I mean electronic ROM versions.

Auto-aperture implemented? They make no mention of such. We need to wait for the lucky testers what they come up with?

As for the lenses dropped out of the list, the 90AA is deafening with it's absence, probably because the same exists in the M version.

No mention of the R Modules as well! or the Extenders!
I assume these will be available for the M with Ostrich leather and Naquadac screens in the future?

My predictions are for a strong demand of the:

- Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm f/2.8
- Summilux-R 80mm f/1.4
- Apo-Macro-Elmarit-R 100mm f/2.8
- Apo-Elmarit-R 180mm f/2.8
- Apo-Telyt-R 280mm f/4

- Vario-Apo-Elmarit-R 70–180mm f/2.8
- Vario-Elmar-R 80–200mm f/4

The bets are on!

Gunzorro wrote:
sebboh -- Thanks! Of course you are right -- auto aperture is totally unneeded with rangefinder, and stopped down works better for LV showing DOF. Gracias!

Not sure about this. I supoose at low light or macro situations a open iris would still help focussing, much less gain / ISO / exposure time needed.
For macro the open iris would help to nail focus on insects eyes I think.

Furthermore an adapter with using the iris could make live easier with programm automatic and such. Or even a kind of apodization filtering (with electronic shutter or times not longer than X-sync)

But what I read about the adapter it seems to have no iris manipulation.

I wonder if some longer R lenses may be put back into production and/or tweaked. I can now see a market for a tilt/shift lens design.

Mike

Taylor Sherman wrote:
I don't know if the price will go up that much. I think there are many more non-Leica EVIL camera users out there looking to R lenses than there will be owners of the M for a while.

Of course, the M owners might have deeper pockets. . . but empty pockets after they pony up for the M

Still, I'm maybe wishing I'd gone for an 100 APO instead of the 100/2 MP I got a few weeks ago for my Nex. . . .


I don't think many existing M users will buy into R lenses. The standard lenses and wide angle lenses all have a M counterpart. Why use a R 50lux if there is the great M50lux with also gives rangefinder coupling and a better size.

That leaves lenses above 135mm (since there is the great M 135 lens also) and macro lenses.
Why would they buy those kind of lenses if they apparently never wanted them before. If they did need makro and tele they never staid with the M and already used the R system, or now EOS.

So I don't really see a reason why existing M user suddenly gonna buy R lenses.

No auto aperture for R lenses of course. It's gonna be like using them in a Canikony reflex or a mirrorless.
The current M mount doesn't supports any kind of mechanical or electric control over the iris of the M lenses. An automated M-R aperture adapter would need a mechanical lever to actuate the iris of the R lenses. They could only do that with a motorized device having electric contacts on the body side which, on the other part, would imply a significant modification of the original M mount, adding a new series of pins for powering and controlling the adapter.
Obviously if the new M had a modified mount we would know it already either from the pictures or from Leica's written/verbal information.
Anyway, as others said, stop down focusing/metering isn't an issue anymore with Liveview and EVF.

Yes it seems there is no automated iris operation.
I still think it would have helped in some cases.

slungu wrote:
Sorry but for R lenses I see no difference : it is just another body that can use them with an adapter, as could be done with the canons and all the mirrorless cams.

Not to mention Leitax (it was originally conceived to adapt Leica R on Pentax).

Almass wrote:
My predictions are for a strong demand of the:

- Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm f/2.8
- Summilux-R 80mm f/1.4
- Apo-Macro-Elmarit-R 100mm f/2.8
- Apo-Elmarit-R 180mm f/2.8
- Apo-Telyt-R 280mm f/4

- Vario-Apo-Elmarit-R 70–180mm f/2.8
- Vario-Elmar-R 80–200mm f/4

The bets are on!


No need for the 80/1.4, there is an equivalent 75/1.4, which is possibly even a bit sharper (I have owned both).

And what about the 21-35 and 28-90? Both great lenses with no M equivalent.

Bijltje wrote:
I don't think many existing M users will buy into R lenses. The standard lenses and wide angle lenses all have a M counterpart. Why use a R 50lux if there is the great M50lux with also gives rangefinder coupling and a better size.

That leaves lenses above 135mm (since there is the great M 135 lens also) and macro lenses.
Why would they buy those kind of lenses if they apparently never wanted them before. If they did need makro and tele they never staid with the M and already used the R system, or now EOS.

So I don't really see a reason why existing M user suddenly gonna buy R lenses.

Because the best compromise they had before was just M lenses, but they really wanted a macro or tele lens?

Bijltje wrote:
That leaves lenses above 135mm (since there is the great M 135 lens also) and macro lenses.
Why would they buy those kind of lenses if they apparently never wanted them before. If they did need makro and tele they never staid with the M and already used the R system, or now EOS.

So I don't really see a reason why existing M user suddenly gonna buy R lenses.

Revival of R production is an intriguing possibility. Many M users were, indeed, R users - such is the Leica mystique. What killed the R system IMO was the lack of a plausible digital offering (apologies to the R-module fanatics). Now that FF 135 is sprouting out of the woodwork, Leica can either commission a body from Asia and rebrand it, or build their own on the R9 template. Meanwhile, the R lenses are already engineered. M-only users can expand their lens options with macro/tele/zoom from the R side: an option that did not exist in the long period between the end of Visoflex and this new M with LV. Based on price point, image format and AF capability, I don't see any cannibalization of S sales by R.

carstenw wrote:
Bijltje wrote:
I don't think many existing M users will buy into R lenses. The standard lenses and wide angle lenses all have a M counterpart. Why use a R 50lux if there is the great M50lux with also gives rangefinder coupling and a better size.

That leaves lenses above 135mm (since there is the great M 135 lens also) and macro lenses.
Why would they buy those kind of lenses if they apparently never wanted them before. If they did need makro and tele they never staid with the M and already used the R system, or now EOS.

So I don't really see a reason why existing M user suddenly gonna buy R lenses.

Because the best compromise they had before was just M lenses, but they really wanted a macro or tele lens?

I see it differently. Now that the M is able to work with telephotos and macro lenses, I am sure Leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander will be tempted to offer a couple more M mount lenses to fill the gap.

ALL Leica M users, please disregard the Summilux-R 80/1.4
As I am thinking I want one of these, and, it really would not work great for you, trust me.
*8^)

I don't think Leica will revive the R lenses production, doesn't make sense commercially and they can't compete with Canon, Nikon ,etc... and who would pay $$ for a new R lens if there is no dedicated body to attach those lenses to? Leica already ave the S range which has AF and now zooms and tilt shift. All the S lenses are class leading optics.. it might make more sense that maybe in a few years time, it would be cheap enough to produce an S range of cameras below US$10,000 and then I think the rush for S lenses will start...

I like the idea of being able to do macro and tele work on a single platform on the Leica M. would be interesting to see how it works out.

Absolutely agreed, Joe. The R line is dead long ago.

But I wouldn't mind a smallish ZM 180/2.8 Sonnar and a ZM 85/2.8 Makro-Planar to go with the new M typ 240

Leica may develop a compact 180/4 APO in the future since the new M has the EVF/LV.

Of course it's not just R lenses, have Leica not just made the first FF camera that can take practically any alt lens, whether rangefinder or not? Without corner issues either I assume. Won't take long for the adaptors to arrive now. The M9 price for a very simple M mount rangefinder has spawned an extremely versatile son...

The adapters are available on eBay now. They've been slowly rolling out since the GXR's M-mount module was released.

Right now, the only FF digital camera that can take practically any 35mm or bigger format lens is the Sony VG900. The Leica M can't take Contax G ( or Sony NEX )
Agreed, a videocam isn't exactly the ideal in ergonomics for a typical RF/SLR user, but using a long and heavy lens with a Leica M, isn't precisely a breeze, specially if you don't have the optional EVF. Imagine holding a Leica M + Apotelyt 280 at arms lenght ?. . Even with the EVF, the balance won't feel right for medium-long teles or zooms. Unless you use a tripod, much better to get a DSLR.