boingyman wrote:
From the way some of you guys talk I might as well chuck my little T2i as it's not even worthy to use


You won't hear that from me!

That little camera is responsible for my technical and artistic renaissance since buying it. It opened doors to quality video, and all the newer/pro still gear I've bought in these last three years. I had sold my 70-200L IS version I, that had basically gone unused for about two years -- than money bought the T2i with its fresh electronic approach. I had been using the 5D for several years at that point, but for some reason the T2i really clicked on a switch. (I kept the 5D, and only now will be selling it, having two other Canon FF models on hand.)

I had sworn off APS-C after getting the 5D, but here I was changing me tune again, thanks to the T2i.

Yakim -- Sorry for your unpleasant experience with the 60D, but I can't say that mine parallels yours. If you wanted to talk about the Nikon D7000, yes! The 60D is what I moved up to from the T2i to get a slightly bigger body and the awesome tilty LCD. The 60D with grip is still just a touch too small for me. If that is the ergonomics you are talking about, it was really a non-issue for me, but I'd recommend you use the large 1D-series bodies that I prefer for full frame with larger lenses. The D7000 with grip was actually too small (for some reason, more awkward than the smaller T2i with grip) and cramped my hand a bit and I had to change my holding/carrying style. If you are talking controls and menu -- I absolutely love the 60D design and menu -- the Q menu wants a touch screen! -- better than any of my other bodies. So if the 5D3 and 6D are similar to the 60D, I'm in!

Gunzorro wrote:
Yakim -- Sorry for your unpleasant experience with the 60D, but I can't say that mine parallels yours. If you wanted to talk about the Nikon D7000, yes! The 60D is what I moved up to from the T2i to get a slightly bigger body and the awesome tilty LCD. The 60D with grip is still just a touch too small for me. If that is the ergonomics you are talking about, it was really a non-issue for me, but I'd recommend you use the large 1D-series bodies that I prefer for full frame with larger lenses. The D7000 with grip was actually too small (for some reason, more awkward than the smaller T2i with grip) and cramped my hand a bit and I had to change my holding/carrying style. If you are talking controls and menu -- I absolutely love the 60D design and menu -- the Q menu wants a touch screen! -- better than any of my other bodies. So if the 5D3 and 6D are similar to the 60D, I'm in!

The reason I hate the 60D ergonomics are exactly because they remind me of the Rebel ergonomics. I had the 350D for a short while (back then - 1D2 era - I had the 1D). As you can guess, I sold it very quickly as I couldn't adjust to the ergonomics. Going the route from Rebel to 60D to 6D is very logical. The thing is that I got used to better ergonomics (that is, better IMHO of course) and I just can not go back.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Yakim Peled wrote:I'm a 40D/7D user and my best advice for you is: "Try before you buy". The ergonomics of the 6D is almost identical to the 60D which is - IMHO of course - simply horrendous. Not long ago I spent a few hours shooting with the 60D. It was not a pleasant experience.

I'm used to working around things like that.

I don't know how anyone can say the ergonomics are terrible when nobody (bar one or two here) has used one.

Yakim Peled wrote:

The reason I hate the 60D ergonomics are exactly because they remind me of the Rebel ergonomics. I had the 350D for a short while (back then - 1D2 era - I had the 1D). As you can guess, I sold it very quickly as I couldn't adjust to the ergonomics. Going the route from Rebel to 60D to 6D is very logical. The thing is that I got used to better ergonomics (that is, better IMHO of course) and I just can not go back.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Up until the 600D, the Rebel series had no ergonomics and even now though they are much better they are still the worst of the cameras in that class IMO. Grips are still far too small and lack of the QCD is sheer insanity on Canon part. Didn't really like my friends 60D much either, although it is much better than 650D.

J.D. wrote:
Yakim Peled wrote:I'm a 40D/7D user and my best advice for you is: "Try before you buy". The ergonomics of the 6D is almost identical to the 60D which is - IMHO of course - simply horrendous. Not long ago I spent a few hours shooting with the 60D. It was not a pleasant experience.

I'm used to working around things like that.

I don't know how anyone can say the ergonomics are terrible when nobody (bar one or two here) has used one.

Have you missed the marked sentence? I have not handled the 6D but I have handled the 60D and as The EOS 6D is best seen as a full frame version of the EOS 60D - indeed it's very similar in both control layout and dimensions I can extrapolate from the 60D to the 6D. Also, apart from the similar name, if you look at the back of both cameras it's obvious that the family resemblance is significant.

I hope I'm clearer now.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Pixel Perfect wrote:
Yakim Peled wrote:

The reason I hate the 60D ergonomics are exactly because they remind me of the Rebel ergonomics. I had the 350D for a short while (back then - 1D2 era - I had the 1D). As you can guess, I sold it very quickly as I couldn't adjust to the ergonomics. Going the route from Rebel to 60D to 6D is very logical. The thing is that I got used to better ergonomics (that is, better IMHO of course) and I just can not go back.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Up until the 600D, the Rebel series had no ergonomics and even now though they are much better they are still the worst of the cameras in that class IMO. Grips are still far too small and lack of the QCD is sheer insanity on Canon part. Didn't really like my friends 60D much either, although it is much better than 650D.


As I stated above, I'm sure I'd be very happy with the 60D if I'd came from Rebels but as I didn't, I just can't.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

moonpeep wrote:
That's still what I shoot with. (well, t3i, same sensor)
http://500px.com/photo/12314609 (shot with it)


Gunzorro wrote:
You won't hear that from me!

I know guys, I was just being sarcastic...probably should have done the rolling eyes smiley at the end

Since my T2i is my first and only DSLR so far any FF upgrade right now is beneficial for me. The only thing that is going to hurt is my wallet and somehow trying to convince my wife that it's ok to purchase a lens every now and then that cost over a grand a piece What makes it worse is I'm going to want a new tripod eventually, a dedicated backpack, possibly transition to LEE filters and getting a pano setup, more flash/strobe equipment, upgrade my post processing equipment, meaning a new computer, monitor and software...Ahh the list goes on and on...

If anything I prefer a thread that people can rant about their significant other and not having enough time to shoot. To me that's my BIGGEST limitations, not the damn gear!

Yakim -- I took a multi-pronged ergonomic approach. Initially, it was D60 > 20D > 5D.

Then I came back toward small size for personal work and some assignments, while using the 5D for most pro work. T2i > 60D.

I also branched out this way at the same time: T2i > 1D2 > 1Ds > 1Ds2 > 5D2.

AND: T2i > D1X > Fuji S5 > D7000. Of these, I greatly preferred the fit and feel of the D1X.

Of these, the T2i and D7000 were the most ergonomically awkward for me, but I would take the smaller T2i over the D7000. Much happier with the 60D over both these models.

The T2i was a transition model to jump start me into these new directions. Right now, the 5D and Nikon line are extinct to me. Eventually, I'll probably drop the 1D line of APS-H, and then be using only Canon crop and full frame.

I would still consider the T4i because of its technical offerings, but probably won't. That's where the 6D has taken over that attraction.

Well, what can I say? To each his own. I can not settle for a camera which is uncomfortable to shoot with but if you find it acceptable then it may be a good option for you.

BTW, I also sold my Mirex kit because of the very same reason, despite lacking nothing in IQ and BQ.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Yakim Peled wrote:
Well, what can I say? To each his own. I can not settle for a camera which is uncomfortable to shoot with but if you find it acceptable then it may be a good option for you.

Curious if have you tried any mirrorless camera? They're much worse than a D-Rebel.

skibum5 wrote:

I think Canon was actually in a tricky spot with the 6D having not gone dual digic and 30MP at 6fps for the 5D3 or gotten exmor-like or at least D4-like DR out of the 5D3. If they go higher than 4.5fps and go 6fps well then you match the 5D3. etc.

And they couldn't just reuse 5D III sensor?

Pixel Perfect wrote:
skibum5 wrote:

I think Canon was actually in a tricky spot with the 6D having not gone dual digic and 30MP at 6fps for the 5D3 or gotten exmor-like or at least D4-like DR out of the 5D3. If they go higher than 4.5fps and go 6fps well then you match the 5D3. etc.

And they couldn't just reuse 5D III sensor?

Sound like 3 more generations to wait..well, first class sensor to be in 1d series then triggle down to 5d then so on...in that order wow i be gone by then...

I tried using my brothers Xti long ago,it drove me nuts,I am more at home with the 5Dc and my 1Dmk2n.

Yakim Peled wrote:Have you missed the marked sentence? I have not handled the 6D but I have handled the 60D and as The EOS 6D is best seen as a full frame version of the EOS 60D - indeed it's very similar in both control layout and dimensions I can extrapolate from the 60D to the 6D. Also, apart from the similar name, if you look at the back of both cameras it's obvious that the family resemblance is significant.

No, I haven't missed anything.

The fact is, I don't care. In my experience, Canon don't make cameras which I find too difficult to handle. I'm sure not going to lose any sleep over it.

Yakim Peled wrote:
Well, what can I say? To each his own. I can not settle for a camera which is uncomfortable to shoot with but if you find it acceptable then it may be a good option for you.

BTW, I also sold my Mirex kit because of the very same reason, despite lacking nothing in IQ and BQ.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Yakim -- Yes, I think you have it exactly. If it doesn't work for the person, it's pointless to pursue. Too many great choices out there! Thanks.

thw2 wrote:
Yakim Peled wrote:
Well, what can I say? To each his own. I can not settle for a camera which is uncomfortable to shoot with but if you find it acceptable then it may be a good option for you.

Curious if have you tried any mirrorless camera? They're much worse than a D-Rebel.

I don't think so. The GH2 is slightly smaller than the Rebel series but despite that (I generally like bigger cameras) it's much better designed and I really liked shooting with it, something I can not say for any Rebel. That's the beauty of good design.

And BTW, the GH3 looks even better than the GH2.....

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

J.D. wrote:
Yakim Peled wrote:Have you missed the marked sentence? I have not handled the 6D but I have handled the 60D and as The EOS 6D is best seen as a full frame version of the EOS 60D - indeed it's very similar in both control layout and dimensions I can extrapolate from the 60D to the 6D. Also, apart from the similar name, if you look at the back of both cameras it's obvious that the family resemblance is significant.

No, I haven't missed anything.

The fact is, I don't care. In my experience, Canon don't make cameras which I find too difficult to handle. I'm sure not going to lose any sleep over it.

Well, as I said above, to each his own.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Probably should have pointed out that I never shoot without a battery grip attached... Sorry.