The new Leica M typ-240 does not have a tilt LCD.
http://uk.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/m_new/

It does have an available tilt EVF.

Can't have it all, yet, and when we can, it'll cost ya!

You must have missed my "unfortunately". I know that and I'm having some serious doubts about getting one...

snowboarder wrote:
You must have missed my "unfortunately". I know that and I'm having some serious doubts about getting one...

Sorry, I noted the "unfortunately" but misunderstood the intended meaning.

The new "MM" is certainly closer to being a perfect camera (for me) than any digital M ever has been, but the price of near-perfection remains too high for me to contemplate, and, if I'm very honest with myself, I do want an autofocus capable solution for my go-everywhere camera.

The Sony RX1 isn't perfect either but the cost of its imperfection is well within my tolerance range.

snowboarder wrote:
I just shot with 5D III, 2 days, 10 hours each day. MF only. Outside of everything else,
the most annoying thing was the lcd which couldn't be tilted up. What a drag!
I didn't realize how important it was until I was missing it... RX1 does not have that feature...


I miss the tilted lcd on my DP2Merrill also.
It is an incredible sensor/lens combination BTW. I have never seen before this level of detail, texture and color transition.
Before the flame war starts, I also have a Nex5n for wide angle and tele

RX1 manuals are starting to become available on the Sony UK support site. At this point no English manual has been linked to but plenty of others:

http://sony.co.uk/support/en/product/DSC-RX1/manuals

EDIT: The URL has a simple "code" which points to the various language specific files. Wasn't hard to "crack" - here's the English manual:

http://pdf.crse.com/manuals/4443124111.pdf

Some more sample images are posted on Sony.jp site as well as commentary from one or more photographers. Google translate to the rescue, sort of.

http://www.sony.jp/cyber-shot/1hand-fullsize/

The official Sony samples have a few new ones thrown in:

http://www.sony.jp/cyber-shot/1hand-fullsize/gallery_kanazawa.html

There's an advertorial interview of one photographer (Shitamachi) - it is interesting that one fellow talks at length about how he had to remember he wasn't using a camera with on-board image stabilization. Technique will matter with this camera.

http://www.sony.jp/cyber-shot/1hand-fullsize/photographer.html

His are mostly a collection of snapshots but are sample porn none the less. (no full size images)

http://www.sony.jp/cyber-shot/1hand-fullsize/gallery_shitamachi.html

Sony.jp still says camera will be released as of November 16th.

sebboh wrote:
michaelwatkins wrote:
I live with a tilt-up EVF / no tilting LCD every day. It isn't ideal, but none of my 135 format film cameras had a tilting viewfinder and certainly none had an instant print preview display on the back! Somehow we all managed. For decades.

But I take the point - once you have the capability it does feel like a step back. While I'd have been happy with a slightly larger RX1 with a tilting LCD and a built-in EVF, I understand and am ok with their decisions to keep it small.

Apparently you can't have everything, at least not yet.

yeah, my problem is i know i'll want to leave the evf at home 50% the time and being so used to the flip up lcd, i'm worried not having it will drive me crazy.

Agreed. It should have either a tilt LCD or a built-in EVF, minimum. Ideally, it would have both, but one is good enough.

Make no mistake, I certainly enjoy a tilt LCD, and think its really indispensable for landscape type work. Its one of those things that you don't even realize how great it is until you try it and find you can comfortably stand there and compose a scene without a sore back, or getting dirty on the ground for low angle shots etc. That said though, on a camera like the RX1, I personally can't say I'd miss it all that much, simply because I can't see myself using the RX1 from a tripod or doing lots of low angle shooting with it.

EVF, yes, as I think its a camera that lends itself to eye level shooting, but a landscape tool..... I don't know

I suppose one way of looking at it is that if you've got the money to buy such a camera, you've probably already got, (or can otherwise) afford other tools for landscape work etc, say a NEX7 or something like that, to give not only the tilt screen, but a variety of focal lengths etc.

RX1 just doesn't seem like its going to be, nor meant to be, a general purpose photo tool.

Its not a camera you sell all your other gear for, because LCD or not, its just rather limited in what it is, and what it can do.

Its like a Mazda Miata, fun little car to take out on the weekend (and darn fast around the SCCA auto cross course!) but you can't expect it to also haul groceries, take the kids to school etc.

Its, excuse the generalization, a rich mans toy, just like the RX1.

millsart wrote:
Make no mistake, I certainly enjoy a tilt LCD, and think its really indispensable for landscape type work. Its one of those things that you don't even realize how great it is until you try it and find you can comfortably stand there and compose a scene without a sore back, or getting dirty on the ground for low angle shots etc. That said though, on a camera like the RX1, I personally can't say I'd miss it all that much, simply because I can't see myself using the RX1 from a tripod or doing lots of low angle shooting with it.


um, the really great use for the tilt up lcd is street shooting, which i think this camera is kinda targeted at.

millsart, I'd say it's a BMW 2002, or a Subaru Liberty/Legacy with the 6 cylinder inside it. 24Mp hauls a lot of photographic groceries.

I'd have no hesitation using it on a tripod, a lighter tripod at that of course. I see it as a take anywhere do (almost) anything with it camera. Whatever it is, we have not seen its like before.

millsart wrote:
Its not a camera you sell all your other gear for, because LCD or not, its just rather limited in what it is, and what it can do.

I could sell all my gear for it and I don't understand why "general purpose" must be unlimited.

I am curious how well-built this little thing would be. Sony does not make things too 'sturdy' in general, unless they are 'pro' gear. Cybershot group does not come across as 'pro' group, so I have my doubts, but will withhold my judgment until I touch it myself.

sebboh wrote:
millsart wrote:
Make no mistake, I certainly enjoy a tilt LCD, and think its really indispensable for landscape type work. Its one of those things that you don't even realize how great it is until you try it and find you can comfortably stand there and compose a scene without a sore back, or getting dirty on the ground for low angle shots etc. That said though, on a camera like the RX1, I personally can't say I'd miss it all that much, simply because I can't see myself using the RX1 from a tripod or doing lots of low angle shooting with it.


um, the really great use for the tilt up lcd is street shooting, which i think this camera is kinda targeted at.

Yep, I don't think I've ever shot my NEX-5 without the LCD at least partially tilted, and I'm not a big landscape or tripod shooter. I either want my camera at eye level against my face, or around chest/waist level with my arms locked at my side. That's how I shoot all of my cameras a majority of the time.

akul wrote:
I am curious how well-built this little thing would be. Sony does not make things too 'sturdy' in general, unless they are 'pro' gear. Cybershot group does not come across as 'pro' group, so I have my doubts, but will withhold my judgment until I touch it myself.

I think the build quality will be excellent. The RX100 that I own is also very well built IMHO.

douglasf13 wrote:Yep, I don't think I've ever shot my NEX-5 without the LCD at least partially tilted, ...

Actually, it would be a neat feature to have the on/off switch connected to the tilt mechanism, automatically switching the camera on when the screen is tilted.

I just pre-ordered this camera, it'll be available in Japan on 11/16. Unfortunately I had to pay a little more due to the crummy exchange rate, but no big deal. I think this will be a camera I keep for a long time. There's a lot of naysayers, but here's my take:

Cost - roughly the same as a the new Nikon/Canon prosumer FF line. My only gripe is the absurd price for the EVF, which I might not even buy anyway because I dont need/use one on my Olympus PEN

Interchangeable lens - I'm slightly disappointed by this, but lets face it 90% of the time I slap on my 24-70 on my 5D and shoot around 30-40mm focal length anyway. I also use an Olympus PEN with the Panasonic 20mm and leave it mounted 99% of the time anyway

No rotatable LCD - this is a nice to have and one of the things I wish my PEN had considering I dont use the EVF.

Overall, I think this camera will be great. I wanted a day to day camera to offset lugging around pounds of gear and got a PEN, but the IQ isn't nearly as good as my 5D. I think this will hit the sweet spot and be the only camera I use from now on.

Apparently this thread (in German, and one has to be a member to access the images):

http://www.sonyuserforum.de/forum/showthread.php?t=123035

... contains some comparison photos showing marked A99 EVF improvement in lower light situations over the A77. The EVF in the RX1 is said to be the same as the A99's amd those who have shot the RX1 and NEX-7 have also noted improvements.

Don't really know what to make of this comment:

http://the.me/further-optimize-our-uniqueness-sony-betting-on-electronics-and-technology-to-change-camera-development/

Sony RX1 photos you’ve seen so far don’t yet show off the compact full-frame camera’s full potential. Even the ones on the Sony website. This is what Yosuke Aoki, Sony General Manager Asia Pacific, Marketing Division Imaging, tells THEME. What they’re lacking? “Maybe they’re not yet full 24MP,” smiles Aoki. Sony headquarters Tokyo just released the latest firmware. Further work has to be done until the RX1 is ready for the market.

Not sure if its been mentioned ? But it seems the max shutter has been increased to 1/4000th. This can only be a good thing...

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/pics-of-the-new-rx1/