Insane prices for Paul C Buff gear in Europe. Why won't US store ship internationally?
/forum/topic/1141046/1

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JuliusCesar
Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Total Posts: 6
Country: Germany

PeterBerressem wrote: Believe me, the money the British distributors make from an Einstein isn't THAT much as you might assume.

At that price level, do they sell something at all?

You really have to be a die-hard PCB fan to accept these prices.

Just a few words about all those ugly taxes and customs fees:

4% customs fees
Ca. 18-21% VAT depending on the country within the EU

Wow, that really explains a 300% price increase.



PeterBerressem
Registered: Sep 05, 2007
Total Posts: 729
Country: Germany


Wrong, their margin is just about 70%. This is very poor when you consider what most business calculate.



visualist
Registered: Jan 09, 2010
Total Posts: 83
Country: Switzerland

In electronics 70% is actually a lot.
And i still believe that Buff is avoiding the european market for ideological reasons. At least thats what a couple of quickly deleted threads by him strongly suggest.



cordellwillis
Registered: Aug 24, 2004
Total Posts: 5080
Country: United States

Interpretation. Without being on the inside of *his business* everyone else can only speculate. After all, he doesn't have to do business where he doesn't want to. Everyone still has options for other gear.



JuliusCesar
Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Total Posts: 6
Country: Germany

Ideological reasons? Like the spleen about illegal immigrants as a reason not to sell to governmental customers in California?

http://www.paulcbuff-techforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=557

I love people that cross the thin line between brilliance and insanity, but I doubt he is doing himself any favor.



Mark_L
Registered: Sep 28, 2010
Total Posts: 2555
Country: United Kingdom

PeterBerressem wrote:

Wrong, their margin is just about 70%. This is very poor when you consider what most business calculate.


How can we know what their margin is when we do not know wholesale cost to them from PCB?



rockjano
Registered: Aug 17, 2009
Total Posts: 18
Country: Hungary

Chinese manufacturers make better and better products, for a good price. There are Korean manufacturers better than chinese but more expensive as well. (still a lot less than the big brands)

Chinese also make strobes that are very similar to Einstein. Here we have to rely on asian manufacturers. Leave Paul Baff for the US market.

Sorrily we have no such manufacturers isn Europe, it would be more difficult anyway because of the different taxes .

Concerning VAT!! This is the highest in my country 27%. BUT if you buy the product as a company investment than you can get back the VAT from the state. Import tax is minimal.



JuliusCesar
Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Total Posts: 6
Country: Germany

Simple:

One Einstein strobe

USA $499.95 -> 385.34 Euros

VAT in UK = 20%
Customs fee probably 4%

So we add 24% = $119.99.

$499.95 + $119.99 = $619.94 -> 478.73 Euros

The UK office wants 548.90 British Pounds -> 681.61 Euros or $882.67.

So, that's 200 Euros/$260per Einstein strobe if they get zero percent discount. Probably they do get a moderate dicsount, let's guess it might be something like 10 to 30%.

The guys in the UK might think about profit maximization. If they try to sell at such high prices sales will be low. If they sell at lower prices they make less money per unit but a lot more profit... below the line there is more because sales will skyrocket.



kenyee
Registered: Jul 08, 2008
Total Posts: 1528
Country: United States

Mark_L wrote:
OP, you probably don't want PCB lights outside the US anyway because the support will be almost non-existent.


Have you experienced their support through their distributor? If not, how do you know that?

I know as part of the distribution agreement, the distributor has to have enough stock on hand to swap your gear. The "broken" gear then comes back to the PCB factory in one big shipment to save on shipping costs.
So add that to one more thing the distributor has to have overhead costs for...



kenyee
Registered: Jul 08, 2008
Total Posts: 1528
Country: United States

JuliusCesar wrote:
VAT in UK = 20%
Customs fee probably 4%


+ shipping/insurance costs which are pretty extreme (and why I don't ship my ebay items across the pond).

Customs fee is only 4%? Sounds a bit low. I've never shipped to the EU though.

and 50% margin is generally the "rule of thumb" from Business 101 for adding a layer of distribution...



JuliusCesar
Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Total Posts: 6
Country: Germany

Shipping/insurance costs are "pretty extreme" when you ship a small package with 2 or 3 strobes and some accessories.But they are really low when you literally ship a container.

Just to give everyone an idea, shipping a 20' container from the USA to Europe costs ca. $1,000 to $1,500, all included. Shipping that container from China to Europe costs about 30% more.

Of course, it takes longer than airfreight, but costs are almost neglectable per strobe or umbrella.

Regarding margins for electronics, 50% are utopian. 3-15% are normal for computers, consumer electronics and most photo equipment. 5% is a standard for gadgets like game consoles that help selling games, and for cameras that help selling accessories.

Welcome to Reality.



PeterBerressem
Registered: Sep 05, 2007
Total Posts: 729
Country: Germany

Mark_L wrote:
PeterBerressem wrote:

Wrong, their margin is just about 70%. This is very poor when you consider what most business calculate.


How can we know what their margin is when we do not know wholesale cost to them from PCB?

It's no secret that they buy at 10% discount. As Paul C Buff's price structure is 'factory sales net' he won't go lower without losing profit.



PeterBerressem
Registered: Sep 05, 2007
Total Posts: 729
Country: Germany

JuliusCesar wrote:

Just to give everyone an idea, shipping a 20' container from the USA to Europe costs ca. $1,000 to $1,500, all included. Shipping that container from China to Europe costs about 30% more.

Of course, it takes longer than airfreight, but costs are almost neglectable per strobe or umbrella.

Regarding margins for electronics, 50% are utopian. 3-15% are normal for computers, consumer electronics and most photo equipment. 5% is a standard for gadgets like game consoles that help selling games, and for cameras that help selling accessories.

Welcome to Reality.


The amount of wares they import simply don't justify sea container shipment.

Regarding margins... dare to ask Walser what they pay to the mfgs. in China?
Welcome to reality...



JuliusCesar
Registered: Apr 08, 2005
Total Posts: 6
Country: Germany

I guess Walser could print its own money... but nowadays the Chinese are pushing their own brands like "Jinbei" and benefit from Walser's high prices.



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