As I noted earlier in this thread, especially when selling multiple items, I have to factor in my time and what it costs me to put up with the logistics of the sale of each item. That said, Borderlight is pretty doggone close to the reality of a sale to Adorama, and, indeed, the "wiggle factor" is "expected retail value."

BluesWest wrote:
Wonder where OP went

After reading Helen's posts above, I assume the OP is too embarrassed to show his face again.

John

. OP only has ONE post! He came here to whine, got what he wanted from Helen and then didn't hold up his side of the bargain after extorting more money from Adorama. Embarrassed? I doubt he can be embarrassed. He used this forum then left. Personally, I hope not to see him again. If I do he'll go straight to my ignore list.

borderlight wrote:
Helen Oster response to my post:

borderlight wrote:
.........Adorama usually pays around 40-50% for mint products, .....

Adorama pays around 70% of expected re-sale value


Really? ... then Adorama owes me some money. We don't need a tape for this one since I kept all the emails of the transaction I spoke of. Here's what I sold to Adorama:

Olympus 50mm Macro f2 - LN, used twice. Buy it at Adorama for $499 new.
Olympus Adaptor FT to MFT - LN - used twice. Buy it at Adorama for $146 new.
Olympus Lens Hood for above Macro lens - LN Buy it at Adorama for $18 new.

TOTAL: $663 ..... I was offered $250 for it all. Seems like about 38% of the retail value.



I believe there is a difference between retail and re-sale value. Re-sale is what they expect to get for selling used item(s). Retail is new from the manufacturer. You shouldn't use $663 as the starting point as that is the retail, not re-sale value... unless I missed something.

+1 anthonysemone .... exactly, that's how it works. Resale value is arbitrary. The profit expected from a resell can range. A good example is KEH, a well known camera buyer and reseller, that have posted resale items $20 under the new retail price. To me that means that the seller got a better offer than other resellers. Some newer used cars, even with 48K miles, can be resold at a nice profit after settling with the seller at 60-65% of the original dealer price. Again, it's about how much maximum profit can be made. Obviously some camera stores want to make more than what's reasonable. These stores know that they are most often the last stop to sell your equipment thus you lose significant money in a transaction with them. It should be noted that they are not a dumping ground for things that won't sell. They will tell you straight out that there is no market for your equipment and refuse to offer you anything.

There is little reason to come to the defense of Adorama in the OP story, even if he is wrong, because they will quickly make it up with transactions like mine. Regardless, they didn't really lose any money on his equipment either. Similar to Vegas they make lots of money shuffling or reshuffling. After all it's just business, nothing personal.

borderlight wrote:
Helen Oster response to my post:

borderlight wrote:
.........Adorama usually pays around 40-50% for mint products, .....

Adorama pays around 70% of expected re-sale value


Really? ... then Adorama owes me some money. We don't need a tape for this one since I kept all the emails of the transaction I spoke of. Here's what I sold to Adorama:




And, "expected retail value" is the Catch 22. It means you can bend the numbers anyway you want.

Ball is in your court.







I wrote 're-sale' not 'retail'. HUGE difference. We have to factor in to our quotes:
Cost of shipping customer goods (fully insured) for appraisal
Checking and grading of equipment (by a minimum of 2 staff members, 3 if there is disagreement)
Cleaning and servicing
Storage
Advertising
The 30-day returns period
The (on most items) 6-month warranty)
Returning items, fully insured, to customers who don't want to accept our offer
The risk that the martket will fall prior to re-sale

AND - the boss expects us to turn a profit.....

However, if you feel you were treated unfairly, then please forward all the correspondance to me: Helen@adorama.com, and I will gladly check it out.

Helen Oster
Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador

Helen: I addressed the "resale" part in the post of above yours. In the case my "like new" lens and complimentary accessories there was nothing to clean, or really even evaluate except to put it on a MFT body and see if it works. I know that storing an upright lens doesn't take up much space, and shipping cost about $10, and I agreed to the offer so there was no return postage. I didn't buy from Adorama so a warranty didn't factor into the equation. Since the Olympus 50mm f2 Macro is one of a kind, no other macro of reasonable size for MFT, it's really doubtful that the market will drop, but prices always rise. Only reselling the lens again on eBay, something that might take place if you can't sell it from your store, would lower the offer. It seems that I am lumped in with all the other customers who need the cleaning, triple inspection, etc. thus a low offer.

You guys didn't treat me unfairly. I accepted the offer so it's fine.

BTW: It nice that you help customers, but I never felt FM was the place to do it. My comments were intended as illustrations only of how resale works from my perspective. Thanks..... Borderlight.

I've had only good experiences with Adorama. Each purchase I've been most pessimistic, half expecting a $1500 lens to be a return/re-sell, for example, and haven't been let down yet. Moreover, I think AdoramaPix print service has been top-notch for the prints I've used them for.

Helen's also a presence on another forum I frequent, and has resolved situations there to the customer's benefit.

It's stories like this thread that helps keep my confidence in Adorama as a reliable source for photography equipment as opposed to believing the OP, who clearly was overvaluing his own equipment and does not understand the business dynamic.

In short, this thread's a positive for Adorama rather than a negative as Helen was afraid it might be.

Cheers,

-Matt

I just traded in my gear...a 17-55 and battery pack. This guy Jack from Adorama said that my gear was worth $650. And then on the invoice I got for my trade in it said $460? What in the world.

The guy was not at all helpful and friendly. He seem like he just wanted my credit card number and he was on to the next sale. He didn't give me any info on the gear I was getting which was Canon 5d II and a Canon 24-70 lens. No information on returns or what not. I had to contact the first guy Avi, who sent me the labels to ship my gear.

Then my lens comes in box that looks like someone threw it around.
Sheesh.....soooooo horrible!!!!
I better get the remainder of my credit back! Hello $650 is not the same as $460.

Bahayphillips wrote:
I just traded in my gear...a 17-55 and battery pack. This guy Jack from Adorama said that my gear was worth $650. And then on the invoice I got for my trade in it said $460? What in the world.

The guy was not at all helpful and friendly. He seem like he just wanted my credit card number and he was on to the next sale. He didn't give me any info on the gear I was getting which was Canon 5d II and a Canon 24-70 lens. No information on returns or what not. I had to contact the first guy Avi, who sent me the labels to ship my gear.

Then my lens comes in box that looks like someone threw it around.
Sheesh.....soooooo horrible!!!!
I better get the remainder of my credit back! Hello $650 is not the same as $460.

Let the extortion begin…

I'm not trying to extort money...i just want to have them give what they said they quoted me. It's not like I'm rich! But keep your word.

Methinks thou dost protest too much

Jefferson

"I better get the remainder of my credit back! "....

That works every time

So what's your advice then? Let them keep what they said they would give me?

Addressing people as if they are out to rip you off from the start puts you at a disadvantage in any kind of outcome favorable for you before you even start…Referring to a representative of a respected business as “This Guy”, and then a statement such as “He seem like he just wanted my credit card number and he was on to the next sale” puts doubt on your ability to make your case in a business transaction.

My "Advice" to you would be “If you can’t run with the big dogs…stay on the porch”

Jefferson

Ok...great advice I'm sure there are people out there trying to extort money, but there are also people who just want to get what they were told they were supposed to get. I wouldn't know how to prove to you about the conversation I had with the "guy" who's name is Jack. I've bought many items through Adorama. I'm not saying they are a bad company...but people make mistakes and I would like them to clarify what happened. That's all I'm asking.

Bahayphillips wrote:
Ok...great advice I'm sure there are people out there trying to extort money, but there are also people who just want to get what they were told they were supposed to get. I wouldn't know how to prove to you about the conversation I had with the "guy" who's name is Jack. I've bought many items through Adorama. I'm not saying they are a bad company...but people make mistakes and I would like them to clarify what happened. That's all I'm asking.

If you email me: Helen@adorama.com with the date and time of your call, plus the number you called from, I can listen to the recording of the call and clarify what was said to you.

However, the likelihood is that what you heard was the current value - the used department offer around 70% of that value.

The Adorama used department get upwards of 1,800 pieces sent in for evaluation every week and at any given time there are 26 - 27,000 used items in the warehouse

The way the value is established is by using a calculation which takes into account the number of exact same units in the warehouse at the time of your trade; the average number of that same unit in stock over the past 6 months; the average selling price of the unit over the past 6 months and projected decreases in the pre-owned market in the coming months due to new models becoming available.

BTW every item we sell - except for those rated F (and a few specific exclusions) - come with a 30-day returns period for refund or exchange, as per our website:

http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=faq#returnPolicy

I apologize if this was not made clear to you, and look forward to hearing from you directly: Helen@adorama.com

Helen Oster
Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador

Helen Oster wrote:
I have been in contact with the OP - who also posted in 2 other threads that I'm aware of.

I listened to the recording of the call between the OP and the sales rep.

It was very clear in that recording that the rep stated we would pay up to 70% of re-sale value, which was estimared to be $1,700, meaning we would pay him $1,190

However, we actually agreed to credit the customer $1,200.

After the OP listened to the recording of the call he understood that he made an error and agreed that if we would credit the full amount, ie the sum we would be hoping to sell the unit for, he would remove this post from all forums.

We have now credited the OP $1700 in full - so by the time we take into account the time devoted to this single trade we have made a loss.

I am disappointed that he did not follow through on his promise to us.

I am also disappointed by some of the comments on this thread from members who immediately jumped in to denigrate Adorama without knowledge of the true picture.

Helen Oster
Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador
Helen@adorama.com





This is atleast the 3rd time you've made my day Helen. I don't know why, but I love when people come on the forums and start crying and blaming everyone else. You show up, and shut them down. It's amazing.

Thanks to Helen who helped clear things up for me. I'm new to trading camera equipment with any company. I also spoke to Jack Gold who called me personally and apologized having rushed the phone calls about the gear trade and also gave me credit to buy for future gear. Now that I know how things work with trading gear and re-sale value and payment of 70% of the value, I am sure I will buy from Adorama again. I got a great deal on a new 5D MK II body for $1529. And the lens that came in the box that seemed like it was thrown around...well they said they contacted UPS about that. Helen and Jack...thanks again.

IMHO, Jack Gold and Ari Berkowitz are 2 of the most diligent employees of Adorama (and Helen too, but she's in a different league anyway) Yes, Jack is brash, but he's a very busy guy. And we're talking about New Yorkers here, it's a diffrerent world there! Since I have started dealing exclusively with Jack and Ari, my satisfaction with Adorama has leaped many-fold, and I will continue to send my business their way.