netexpress wrote:
Yeah that's the best setting I can find.

On the Nikon D3x, D4, Nikon D700 and Canon 1-series they stay eliminated. It's much easier to see. and there isn't as much of the red bleeding into the viewfinder (or into the lens for that matter). The system works very well. I hope they keep the old 1-series viewfinder system in the 1D X. I can't speak for the new Nikon D800 - I can't get hold of one yet.

Anyway - what I really want to know is outside tomorrow! That will be exciting!

Outside in daylight you will likely just see the black color of the squares if you have them selected to show all the time. You won't see red at all even with the AF illumination set to ON. But see how it works for you. I have a feeling you'll get used to the differences and will hopefully have some great success with the AF system. Most reports are really good so far from users even with the notorious f/1.x primes.

arbitrage wrote:
Now AI Servo is a bit of a different beast and I don't think you are going to find it to your normal liking. It doesn't ever flash red while tracking it just focuses but never tells you what is going on. This was actually my main issue with the 7D (and now the 5D3). I'd suggest setting the AF point display to Always on as then at least you see the black box of where it is in the VF. I'm not sure how the Nikons and 1 series do this and maybe they stay lit up??

Yeah, so while the problem with single AF while not ideal might not be huge (at some point it'll probably lock focus and you'll see where the AF point is when it lights up red, at which point you can move it or your composition if need be), AI Servo in dim lighting could be a real issue because the red box never comes up. AFAIK on every other Canon camera except for the new LCD overlay viewfinder cameras (7D, 5DIII, and most likely 1DX) the active point lights up red at the beginning of AF including in AI Servo.

No offense to 7D users here who are at a higher knowledge level of most users so this doesn't apply to you, but maybe Canon just haven't gotten enough complaints from 7D users in general because they don't know any better, those who do know better and aren't bothered by it notwithstanding. Since this behavior looks consistent across the board with all 3 of the newest cameras with the newfangled LCD overlay VF, maybe there will be enough complaints across all models to where they give us a menu option to fix it.

Binh Ly wrote:
AGeoJO wrote:
Yohan Pamudji wrote:
Sorry for being slow--I'm trying to reconcile what everybody is saying, so I'm confused So one more time just to make sure: on the 5DIII when I press the AF ON button to start AF the red box around the active AF point lights up, and when it achieves focus lock it lights up again? If so this is exactly what I expect and I'm confused too what the issue is.

AGeoJO wrote:
Yes to that question! That's why I am confused as well.... What's the big deal? Basically, all Canon cameras I have had and still do have, did exactly that and still do, actually

arbitrage wrote:
It doesn't pre light before it achieves focus unless you push the AF selection button next to the * button. So people do have a valid argument but to me seems pointless.

Binh Ly wrote:
Not on my 5D III. When I press the AF-ON (or half shutter), the active AF point does NOT become red immediately. It remains black. Only when that point achieves focus does it become red. It is a bit different from the 5D2 and other Canon bodies.

I apologize, Geoff and Bihn Ly are correct . The "problem" is the AF of the 5D Mark III is basically instantenous and it gives the illusion that it does. But that's exactly how the 5D Mark II works. I don't see any difference there.


My 5D2 works differently. Once I press the AF-ON (or half shutter), the active point will always light red IMMEDIATELY. Does not matter whether focus has been achieved yet or not - it will always light up red as soon as you press AF-ON, and then it will blink red again once focus has been achieved. You can try it yourself. I think that's where the complaint is coming from. The 5D3 behavior is not exactly the same as the 5D2.


Yep that is what I said a few posts ago, this and the fact that in brighter light you can't even see the red because of the different way it is lit compared to the older system. These are the two issues I think people are having.

netexpress wrote:
On the Nikon D3x, D4, Nikon D700 and Canon 1-series they stay illuminated.

Not on the D4 that I used yesterday. I paid extra attention to that. It was the same fat squares as on the 5D3.

I hope they keep the old 1-series viewfinder system in the 1D X.

Nope they didn't.

I have great hopes for the actual auto-focus system still. The reports Ive read have been promising. I can't wait to try some fast primes and especially some super-teles.

As far as the viewfinder system - I'm just new to it.

Fade netexpress!

Yohan Pamudji wrote:
arbitrage wrote:
Now AI Servo is a bit of a different beast and I don't think you are going to find it to your normal liking. It doesn't ever flash red while tracking it just focuses but never tells you what is going on. This was actually my main issue with the 7D (and now the 5D3). I'd suggest setting the AF point display to Always on as then at least you see the black box of where it is in the VF. I'm not sure how the Nikons and 1 series do this and maybe they stay lit up??

Yeah, so while the problem with single AF while not ideal might not be huge (at some point it'll probably lock focus and you'll see where the AF point is when it lights up red, at which point you can move it or your composition if need be), AI Servo in dim lighting could be a real issue because the red box never comes up. AFAIK on every other Canon camera except for the new LCD overlay viewfinder cameras (7D, 5DIII, and most likely 1DX) the active point lights up red at the beginning of AF including in AI Servo.

No offense to 7D users here who are at a higher knowledge level of most users so this doesn't apply to you, but maybe Canon just haven't gotten enough complaints from 7D users in general because they don't know any better, those who do know better and aren't bothered by it notwithstanding. Since this behavior looks consistent across the board with all 3 of the newest cameras with the newfangled LCD overlay VF, maybe there will be enough complaints across all models to where they give us a menu option to fix it.

Again though, you can hit the AF selection button next to the * button and light up all the points in red before starting to AI Servo to see what point it is using.

So the 1D X uses the 5D III AF illumination viewfinder system for sure?

Binh Ly wrote:
My 5D2 works differently. Once I press the AF-ON (or half shutter), the active point will always light red IMMEDIATELY. Does not matter whether focus has been achieved yet or not - it will always light up red as soon as you press AF-ON, and then it will blink red again once focus has been achieved. You can try it yourself. I think that's where the complaint is coming from. The 5D3 behavior is not exactly the same as the 5D2.


I just checked my 5D Mark II, indeed, you are right, the active AF point is lit right away and is lit again when it zips into focus. Things that you just do without thinking or realizing the actual small steps they do to get there.... .

Yeah that's basically what I've come down too also - just chimp on the AF selection button to find your place.

netexpress wrote:
So the 1D X uses the 5D III AF illumination viewfinder system for sure?

Based on what I know how the new viewfinder works, and that one in the D4, 99% yes. I'd be happy if I'm wrong

arbitrage wrote:
Again though, you can hit the AF selection button next to the * button and light up all the points in red before starting to AI Servo to see what point it is using.


That could be a reasonable workaround. Hard to say how often I'd have to do so while shooting in anger, so it's also hard to say if it would be a real problem or just a minor annoyance that subsides over time. Every time my thumb leaves the AF ON button to hit the SELECT AF button means that I'm not focusing on my subject, and shooting candids at events that could be an issue when trying to capture the perfect moment. It could very well be just fine, but certainly something to consider.

This is really the only operational concern I have so far while trying to decide if the 5DIII is the right way to go, but it could be a real pain despite the available workaround. If only Canon had a free test drive program...

OK well I guess we'd all better learn to play nice with the new AF system!



I'm going to let my Canon and Nikon batteries charge - I couldn't get hold of spares. So they'll be fresh in the morning to try out in daylight.

C Ya!

Yeah, I'm out of here also, going to watch a movie. I think we've burnt this topic into the ground. Will be up early tomorrow to shoot the sunrise early morning light. Currently I have 5 LPE6 batteries so I'm ready to go

C Ya!

arbitrage wrote:
Again though, you can hit the AF selection button next to the * button and light up all the points in red before starting to AI Servo to see what point it is using.


Yohan Pamudji wrote:
That could be a reasonable workaround. Hard to say how often I'd have to do so while shooting in anger, so it's also hard to say if it would be a real problem or just a minor annoyance that subsides over time. Every time my thumb leaves the AF ON button to hit the SELECT AF button means that I'm not focusing on my subject, and shooting candids at events that could be an issue when trying to capture the perfect moment. It could very well be just fine, but certainly something to consider.

This is really the only operational concern I have so far while trying to decide if the 5DIII is the right way to go, but it could be a real pain despite the available workaround. If only Canon had a free test drive program...

It depends on your lighting condition while shooting. You can see the active AF point very clearly in good light, of course, and actually, surprisingly even in fairly dim light I can see it pretty well. If you point the AF area to a dark surface under dim lighting, then it becomes harder to see. So far, in a week, I have not encountered any cases where I could not see the AF point but time will tell.

You can rent a 5D Mark III for a day or two to evaluate the condition and in a few months, there should be enough supply for you to check it out at a store before opening the wallet.

Well, now this explains a weird thing I had happen on Wednesday. I had a lunch meeting just off Michigan Avenue in Chicago. I bought a 5DIII last weekend and brought it with figuring I'd get some shots of a TV pilot for the new Dick Wolf show, "Chicago Fire," being filmed nearby, as well as all the other stuff in the area to photograph.

The scene was of a car crash on the Columbus Drive Bridge. I got some street level shots and then climbed the stairs to Upper Wacker Drive to get some overheads. After taking a few shots, a staffer with the production company who was standing nearby got on her walkie talkie. She then asked me if I was using flash. I said no. She said, "Well, they can see something coming from your camera, so when they start filming, you'll have to move." Needless to say, I was very puzzled.

I just looked into the lens while focusing. Sure enough, you can see the red autofocus illuminator when it activates. Interesting.



pompo wrote:
I turn the viewfinder illumination on which lits up the whole dang screen and people looking directly at the lens see a red circle like a traffic light!
(

Used this camera tonight around dusk. Nothing too crazy...like iso1600 1/160, f2.8. I couldn't see focus points worth a darn unless they were up against a white backdrop. Serious drawback to this camera for wedding photogs. When I need to the autofocus right away to capture a key moment, I can't take the time to hit the extra button to illuminate them. Even the autofocus confirm light takes forever. With the 5d2 the point lit up when it got pretty close to in focus. The 5d3 hunts a bit more to find the perfect focus before it lights up. This evening it literally took several seconds for the focus to confirm due to lower light after the autofocus got it in the ballpark. Hopefully they can create an option through firmware to have a similar systems as the 5d2 (at least light up when the autofocus is first used or when you change points)

Binh Ly wrote:
[

Not on my 5D III. When I press the AF-ON (or half shutter), the active AF point does NOT become red immediately. It remains black. Only when that point achieves focus does it become red. It is a bit different from the 5D2 and other Canon bodies.

Do you actually see the red confirmation in BRIGHT light outdoors? I sure don't... I see it indoors in my house but they ALL lit up in red together with this haze of red coming from each side of the VF...

if enough people will complaint the might do a firmware upgrade! Try using the M3 in bright light it is a major pain in the butt to work with due to the poor af point display....

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/professional/professional_cameras/eos_digital_slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii/form_display/support_by_email?WT.mc_id=C126149

Jim Heine wrote:
Used this camera tonight around dusk. Nothing too crazy...like iso1600 1/160, f2.8. I couldn't see focus points worth a darn unless they were up against a white backdrop. Serious drawback to this camera for wedding photogs. When I need to the autofocus right away to capture a key moment, I can't take the time to hit the extra button to illuminate them. Even the autofocus confirm light takes forever. With the 5d2 the point lit up when it got pretty close to in focus. The 5d3 hunts a bit more to find the perfect focus before it lights up. This evening it literally took several seconds for the focus to confirm due to lower light after the autofocus got it in the ballpark. Hopefully they can create an option through firmware to have a similar systems as the 5d2 (at least light up when the autofocus is first used or when you change points)

It does light up when you change points. But I agree it would be better to flash once when the AF starts like the 5D2 does. I think this would be a simple software fix. It is strange why they don't have it do this.
But I'm not sure what you are talking about the 5D2 lighting up when it is close to in focus. I just retested in light equivalent to f/2.8 ISO 6400 and 0.5 sec shutter speed and the 5D2 blinks once at the start and then hunts for focus and then blinks again and beeps only when it has focus locked. Other than the initial flash there is no difference between it and the 5D3 other than the 5D3 can focus in 1 stop less light.

pompo wrote:
Binh Ly wrote:
[

Not on my 5D III. When I press the AF-ON (or half shutter), the active AF point does NOT become red immediately. It remains black. Only when that point achieves focus does it become red. It is a bit different from the 5D2 and other Canon bodies.

Do you actually see the red confirmation in BRIGHT light outdoors? I sure don't... I see it indoors in my house but they ALL lit up in red together with this haze of red coming from each side of the VF...

Hey pompo,
No you don't see the red at all in outdoor light. This is different than the 5D2 and most previous Camons other than the 7D. The thing is is that with my 5D3, the black focus points are extremely easy to see and therefore I don't see why I need the red color outside in bright light because the black colour is the perfect contrast. Even when I tested earlier this evening shooting towards the forested hillside it was still easy to see the black box focus points. I do realize that on the 5D2 you can see the red color no matter what lighting. This is something that will not be fixed as it is the nature of the way the red color is generated. I don't have any problem with how this works. It sounds like it is a big issue for you and I think that if it is then you may have to consider a different camera. I'm stil confused why it is such an issue but everyone is different so I can't say that you are wrong in your opinion if it is seriously affecting the functioning of your photography.

I do wonder if something is actually defective with your camera. Are you not easily able to see the black AF squares if you have selected "AF Display during focus" to be option "Selected (constant)" or "Selected (pre-AF, focused)? These are the two best options to use.