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  Zip comression (archived topic)  
DanPBrown
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icon Zip comression


A bit off topic but I respect the opinions of this forum more than most.
In Tim Grey's latest email he states that zip compression for tiff files is lossy. I always thaught it was a lossless compression. Tim recommends LZW instead. Any opinions?
Dan


Dec 06, 2007 at 01:29 PM
shirozina
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icon Re: Zip comression


Zip is lossless - can you give us a link to this claim it's lossy?

Dec 06, 2007 at 01:40 PM
DanPBrown
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icon Re: Zip comression


Here is his website,
http://www.timgrey.com/
His statement was part of a DDQ email. Here is the question and his answer,

I am ready to Save work done on an TIFF image. I am presented with a window offering me 4 Compression choices, None, LCW, ZIP & JPEG. Since these are images I use to print from time to time in ranges from 5x7" to 12x18" for greeting cards up to wall prints I want the quality to be as good as it gets, because I also place a small label on the back advertising Enlargements available. I don't make changes to these. I have the Master file in addition. Which would be the best option, assuming I have an internal 2nd HDD which I use to back up my work at 500GB?

==========

I can immediately suggest that you exclude ZIP and JPEG compression from consideration, as both will affect the quality of the image. Obviously the "None" option won't affect image quality, as it results in no compression at all. This leave the LZW option (named after Lempel, Ziv, and Welch, who created the algorithm). This option applies compression to the file itself, but not to the image data. In other words, it represents file compression, not image compression. As a a result it results in exactly the same quality as the "None" option for compression, but at a significantly reduced file size.

So, the bottom line is that None and LZW are your best options. If you don't have a reason not to use LZW (such as compatibility issues, which are typically caused by the technology not having been licensed by a particular software tool), I would suggest using LZW to minimize file size while retaining maximum image quality.


Dec 06, 2007 at 01:52 PM
DanPBrown
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icon Re: Zip comression


For the hell of it I tried an experiment. I took a small but sharp image and saved it as a tiff with no compression. Then I did a save as and zipped it. I kept reopenning the zip file and resaving it. I would make a small change to the image in one corner before each save. I then opened the original image and the multi zipped one. I couldn't see any difference under 400% magnification.
Dan


Dec 06, 2007 at 01:56 PM
shirozina
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icon Re: Zip comression


I repeat - ZIP is lossless.

Dec 06, 2007 at 02:47 PM
cogitech
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icon Re: Zip comression


shirozina wrote:
I repeat - ZIP is lossless.


Correct. In fact, any pure data compression (or file compression, if you prefer) is lossless, which is why a compressed RAW file is lossless. The data is compressed, not the image.

Image compression, on the other hand is usually lossy (JPEG, for example), just as is video compression (whether it be MPEG, DivX, H.264, whatever).

If ZIP was lossy, we be losing stuff from our Word docs, etc. when ZIPping files.

He seems to indicate that ZIP compression is applied as image compression, and that just isn't so, AFAIK.


Dec 06, 2007 at 08:43 PM
shirozina
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icon Re: Zip comression


Digital experts......

Dec 06, 2007 at 10:44 PM
Kit Laughlin
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icon Re: Zip comression


ZIP compression is lossless, as is LZW. These algorithms compress the data in the following way (think about a sky in an image): "looking ahead for the next 2,000 bits, we see that they are, in fact, the same. We can write this briefly (the next 2,000 bits are a particular combo of RGB)."

The unpacking algorithm simply does the reverse. Net result? The reproduced original is identical to the original, but is able to be moved or stored at a fraction of the original's size.

I am sure that Tim know this, but everyone has off days!


Dec 07, 2007 at 02:14 AM

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