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  D2x Image/Thoughts (archived topic)  
Stripper
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I borrowed my Nikon Rep's D2x today. I took a walk for a few blocks and snapped a few pictures, all at ISO-200. This was not enough time for a real test, but here are a few observations. I felt the X did focus a little faster and more positively on objects moving toward me than my D2H, which I thought was close to perfect in this regard. When I spoke to the Rep about this, he asked me if I had upgraded the firmware on the H to the recent version. He said this new firmware would make the focusing of the H, exactly like the new X. I had not heard this before.

The viewfinder of the X is nice and although I did not shoot in cropped mode, I could easily see how nice the viewfinder layout would be for my motorsport work with cropped mode. As has been stated by Rick Rickman, I think it will be great to be able to see a bit of what is outside the crop zone. This might only be an advantage for fast action shooting, but it will work for me.

The review screen on the back of the camera is way better than the H (which I have gotten used to). When you blow a section of an image way up, you can really tell if it is perfectly sharp. Although this was good before, having it better will be another big advantage out in the turns at the track with cars coming at you at high speeds.

In my short time with the camera and with the files it made, I can only see one disadvantage. Although the files are big and beautiful and detailed beyond belief, they are a pain to deal with in NC. I shot RAW and on my very fast Dell 8600 laptop with half a gig of RAM, it took NC v4.2 about a zillion years to save a RAW file to TIF or JPG. The new NC was slower than the old one, but these new files will be a pain if they don't speed up the SW or if I don't get more RAM or both.

Here is one of the snaps I took today. Again, it was at ISO-200 with my 70-200 Nikkor at f-4 in aperture priority auto. I used matrix metering with 0 compensation. I had all focus points on, but put the active point on the Carhartt label on the bricklayer's hat. The first shot is the full frame converted from RAW in NC, reduced and slightly sharpened in PS. The second is a 100% crop of the first shot.



This image is copyrighted by the owner





This image is copyrighted by the owner



I liked the camera a lot, and aside from the handling problems I love the files. I would like to take it into a dark theater or bar and see what I get.


Feb 26, 2005 at 02:58 AM
Craig B.
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icon Re: D2x Image/Thoughts


Looks very good John. Thanks for the observations.

Feb 26, 2005 at 03:16 AM
clew
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i won't repeat the words that came out of my mouth when i scrolled down to the 100% crop. i'm in the top 5 over at ephotocraft.com, so i'm going to have to figure out a way to just bite the bullet and pony up those 5K $. Thanks for the post, John.

chris


Feb 26, 2005 at 04:50 AM
AReineman
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Holy Carhartt, Batman!

This looks like a giant leap forward to me. And Mr. Cote? That puppy will sing in your very capable hands!

Serious.

Andrew


Feb 26, 2005 at 05:30 AM
clew
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yeah, i didn't even know how to spell Carhartt until I saw your crop. :)

chris


Feb 26, 2005 at 05:47 AM
jmcfadden
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man JC , this looks like it was made for you my friend :)

J


Feb 26, 2005 at 06:00 AM
Stripper
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Craig, Chris, Santos, Andrew, and John,

Thanks for looking and thanks for the comments guys.
One more thing I forgot to add about the camera. As I look at the files on my computer, and as I looked at them on the camera back yesterday, it becomes more and more obvious to me that the matrix metering system works differently on this cam than on my D2H. The ads all said it was improved and I have no way of knowing that. I can tell you that through the 30 or so frames I shot, it was very consistent. I can also tell you that it was consistently a little under exposed, relative to what my D2H would have done. Going back and looking at the shots, I might have added about 1/3 stop of exposure to most of them.

(If you think about it, and look back at some of the side by side comparisons of the D2x and the Canon 1Ds II that have appeared on the measurbator sites in the last few days, it seems obvious that this is the problem with the Nikon files. It is nothing that these idiots could not have solved by learning the camera a little first.)

I guess Nikon is working really hard not to blow any highlights. When I first looked at the files, I thought they lacked dynamic range, because they went black faster than a D2H file appears to. Then, I remembered that on a day like yesterday (almost sunny bright) I would normally set the D2h on -1 contrast in the tone comp. The data shows that the D2X was set to normal. When I dig into the shadows (curves), especially in the RAW files, but even in the JPGs, there is plenty of detail (range) there. The detail is not noisy, although if you are just looking for noise there is a bit there.

What it looks like to me is that either the sensor acts this way or that Nikon decided that they didn't want to hear anything from anybody about noise in the shadows, so they did what a lot of us do with the H and tweaked the shadow end of the curve a tad. This is just measurebating I know. The files look great, but it is nice to know that there is even a lot more dynamic range there, and without much noise, if you want to dig for it.

I love the Nikons I have. I have to have a lot of reason to spend 5 grand on a new camera, and quite frankly, I was not planning to buy a D2X right away, even though my name is high on the list. I must admit though, that the camera seems to be way more than I though it would be. It seems like me best buddy, the rough and tumble D2H with a little bit more of a crease in its pants and a bit of starch in its shirt. It does not look like a stop gap desperation move by Nikon to keep in the race in the high end DSLR market. It is starting to look to me like a really nice tool, which will make almost any kind of serious photographer really happy. Oh well!


Feb 26, 2005 at 12:49 PM
GSteele
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Alright now we are getting to see some real photos from this camrea and this certainly looks good John. I have enjoyed playing with the ones that Ben Horne posted a couple of days ago, those were some good examples as well. I am glad to hear your thoughts about how slow NC was working with the files. I had thought something was wrong with my computer.:) Nikon will need to work on that very hard. Kodak improved theirs from when it was first released, so I assume that Nikon will as well.

I may be mistaken about this in that the D2H may have the same feature, but I couldn't find a reference in the H manual about it. I downloaded the X manual last night as was briefly reading it and they went into some detail that with G and D lenses that the autoexposure lookup table went from 30,000 to 300,000 pre programmed references. I am wondering if that might have something to do with maintaining the highlights?

Nice work John and thanks!


Feb 26, 2005 at 02:10 PM
jasin
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Now that is the best test I have seen.
Thanks!
Cheers,
Jasin.


Feb 26, 2005 at 03:13 PM
dreams
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Very nice sharp (100% crop).
Did you adjust correct color?

My personal, I never go higher than ISO 400 on my D1h and never go higher than 200 on my D1x.


Feb 26, 2005 at 04:43 PM
Stripper
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dreams wrote:
Very nice sharp (100% crop).
Did you adjust correct color?

My personal, I never go higher than ISO 400 on my D1h and never go higher than 200 on my D1x.


Dreams,

The only thing I did to the file was to sharpen. I made web sized files before sharpening and then sharpened both at about 150amount/0.8radius/4threshold. The color is right out of the camera (sRGB).


Feb 26, 2005 at 04:50 PM
paganini
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You had to sharpen the crop too? Looks like your workflow are gonna be like Canon's... sharpen sharpen sharpen :)

Feb 26, 2005 at 05:52 PM
Stripper
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paganini wrote:
You had to sharpen the crop too? Looks like your workflow are gonna be like Canon's... sharpen sharpen sharpen :)


Pags,

I am not sure that a Canon WF is all that different. I have seen very few digital captures which did not need some degree of sharpening. I have owned and used most of the digital Nikons and have shot with a bunch of digital Canons. They all make nice images...they all need sharpening. Even the D2h, which might just be the sharpest out of the camera needs a little most of the time.


Feb 27, 2005 at 03:33 AM
dreams
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I would like to see 100% crop without sharper

Feb 27, 2005 at 04:43 AM
Stripper
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OK Doug/Dreams,

Below is the detail with no sharpening. For all of the Measurebators, I made this crop by opening the original compressed RAW file in NC-4.2. I then saved a crop of about the same proportions as a TIFF. I opened the TIFF in PS-CS and cropped it to as close to exactly the same size as the original crop I posted above as I could. I then saved it as a JPG at a compression of 10. Feel free to play around with it all you want.



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Feb 27, 2005 at 01:40 PM
genghis45
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Stripper wrote:
Here is one of the snaps I took today. Again, it was at ISO-200 with my 70-200 Nikkor at f-4 in aperture priority auto. I used matrix metering with 0 compensation. I had all focus points on, but put the active point on the Carhartt label on the bricklayer's hat. The first shot is the full frame converted from RAW in NC, reduced and slightly sharpened in PS. The second is a 100% crop of the first shot.


******************************************************************

Great detail of the hat label. Actually, the unsharpened crop looks pretty good, in and of itself. I think even an USM amount of 10 to 30 would've been enough.

Scott


Feb 27, 2005 at 02:14 PM
dreams
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Thank you for show me without sharper.

My first experience with my Sigma SD9. It is excellent sharper image but gave me big hard time with correct color. Then, I switched to Nikon D1h then D1x. Still too curious to see compare D1x vs D2x.

Scott said, "I think even an USM amount of 10 to 30".
I am not sure what is USM?


Feb 27, 2005 at 05:26 PM
HelioPause
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I downloaded the X manual last night as was briefly reading it and they went into some detail that with G and D lenses that the autoexposure lookup table went from 30,000 to 300,000 pre programmed references.


Do you have a link to download the X manual? Mucho appreciado.


Feb 27, 2005 at 05:45 PM
jmcfadden
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dreams wrote:
Thank you for show me without sharper.

My first experience with my Sigma SD9. It is excellent sharper image but gave me big hard time with correct color. Then, I switched to Nikon D1h then D1x. Still too curious to see compare D1x vs D2x.

Scott said, "I think even an USM amount of 10 to 30".
I am not sure what is USM?



Scott ,

do you actually print any of your work, web display imagery is a phantom at best , the images are so small that Everything looks sharp. USM is such a complex affair abd the talk of only doing this or that to your images is meaningless unless you specify to what end an image is intended

:)


J


Feb 27, 2005 at 06:36 PM
DragonflyDM
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Man...if my roof hadn't fallen apart I would have had one right now...damn damn damn..!!!

Feb 27, 2005 at 07:07 PM
bka20d
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john,
very impressive images!!!


Feb 27, 2005 at 11:13 PM
paganini
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I agree that if your workflow is RAW, then you should not sharpen at all.

However, I find that the default sharpening for D70 is good enough that withdefault conversion + adjustment in contrast is good enough for 99.9% of the shots :-) However, the default sharpening for Canon is usually not enough. It's a different philosophy i guess -- canon by default sharpens very little, so it seems that the new D2x is going to need more sharpening than the D70 based on samples i saw from Ben Horne.



Stripper wrote:
paganini wrote:
You had to sharpen the crop too? Looks like your workflow are gonna be like Canon's... sharpen sharpen sharpen :)


Pags,

I am not sure that a Canon WF is all that different. I have seen very few digital captures which did not need some degree of sharpening. I have owned and used most of the digital Nikons and have shot with a bunch of digital Canons. They all make nice images...they all need sharpening. Even the D2h, which might just be the sharpest out of the camera needs a little most of the time.



Feb 27, 2005 at 11:22 PM
GSteele
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HelioPause wrote:

Do you have a link to download the X manual? Mucho appreciado.


Here is the link for the manual.
http://support.nikontech.com/cgi-bin/nikonusa.cfg/php/enduser/cci/download_login.php?faq_id=13494

You need to have a nikon camera with the serial number and be registered to be able to download it.


Feb 27, 2005 at 11:22 PM
CyberDyne
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This just looks superb!
Amazing Detail,...

Am I correct in the fact that the D2X maintains Nikon's 1.5X crop?
But it is now a CMOS sensor?

I would imagine the switch to CMOS may introduce a more "Canon like" sharpening workflow given the CMOS,. as the sharpening levels required may increase,...

I could be wrong,. but despite what Canon press says,. I allways felt the additional sharpening on a Canon Vs. Nikon was infact more of a CMOS Vs. CCD issue than anything else.

that said,. the detail is just amazing!


Feb 27, 2005 at 11:29 PM
paganini
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Cyberdyne -- probably not a CMOS issue -- though the color similarity between D2x and 1D series is probably due to CMOS.

With 12 megapixels, if Nikon kept the same AA filter on the 6 megapixel cameras (i.e. weak AA filters, more prone to moire but with sharper images), there would be significant moire issues because 12 megapixels resolves a lot of high frequency "noises" in a scene and would end up with a lot more moire.

Canon has traditionally gone for the "moire" safe mode... the only camera they didn't put a strong AA filter was the original 1D and a lot of people complained about the moire issue there.


Feb 27, 2005 at 11:51 PM

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