I just came back from vacation. This time, I brought almost every lens that I had. I ended up using the 300/4L and the CZ 28/2.8 mostly. After using the CZ lens in real situations, I would like to share my experience.
1. The manaul focus didn't bother me. I just used the distance and DOF scales on the lens barrel. It worked out fine for most cases with the wide angle lens. For close distances, I used the Split Screen.
2. The Exposure in Av mode is tricky. Usually EV -1 was required. I see more wrong exposures than other wide angles that I've used. ( Canon 24/2.4, Sigma 15-30 )
3. My C/Y-EOS mount has some play in it. And the set screw sometimes lost the grab. That was bad when I had to exchange the lens quickly. I had to be very careful.
4. The images seem to have some clarity or coolness ( meaning cold ). I will do some experiment to find that out.
Overall, especially on D30, it was a perfect travelers' lens. The whole thing is so small, humble and light. You can even use it like a true P&S with f/8 and the focus at the hyperfocal distance. And it gives you good photos.
Below are some sample shots with the lens on D30. Just for this lens, I wanted to have a full frame camera And the last shot is from the SONY F717, which also has a CZ lens,
Nice sharp shots Let me just make sure I have this right. This is a manual CZ lens that is coupled to the D30 with an adapter. You can use the TTL lightmeter but have to set the aperature yourself. So how does this work with the Av mode you mentioned?
Gateboy wrote:
Nice sharp shots Let me just make sure I have this right. This is a manual CZ lens that is coupled to the D30 with an adapter. You can use the TTL lightmeter but have to set the aperature yourself. Right.
So how does this work with the Av mode you mentioned?
It should work seamlessly just like any other lens. You set the aperture with the ring on the lens. Then, the Camera will take the value and calculate the shutter speed. That said, as I mentioned, the calculation doesn't seem to be as reliable as with Canon EF lens. I get more out-of-exposure shots. I don't have any data to support it. It's my feeling after extensive use.
Pondria wrote:
That said, as I mentioned, the calculation doesn't seem to be as reliable as with Canon EF lens. I get more out-of-exposure shots. I don't have any data to support it. It's my feeling after extensive use.
I've experienced the same thing, as I suspect most if not all other non-EF lens users have. (When you stop down a non-EF lens and then take an exposure reading, that is.) Canon's metering system is doing more than just reading light coming in and making an exposure recommendation. There's communication between the body and lens going on, and when this can't happen (non-EF lenses have no elecronic link to the camera) the exposure system goes awry as you stop down.
On my Contax Aria SLR this doesn't happen with non-Y/C lenses. In Av mode the shutter speeds set by the camera track the aperture settings dead on even though the camera has no idea what the aperture setting is. Not sure why Canon's metering system can't or won't do the same. (FWIW the Aria's evaluative metering stomps all over the 10D's. Canon gives the point of focus far too much weight.)
Dave, I got it !
After testing against a blank wall, I have observed the followings.
D30 has 3 Exposure calculation settings -
(*) [E]valuative - Camera plays God.
( ) [P]artial - Take the read only from the center circle
[ ] [C]enter Weighted average
At each setting, with Av mode, I clicked the aperture ring one click at a time. [E] and [P] settings bahave erratically. But the [C] setting gives me very nice one stop reaction.
I did the same thing in pure manual mode. I looked at the [-2 -2 0 +1 +2 ] light meter scale. Again in [C] setting, one aperture step gives me 1 stop change.
So, for whatever reasons, D30 takes the face value of the light through the lens only in Center-Weighter-average mode. Try it with 10D. I hope it will for for you !
I wish I could say the 10D behaves like your D30 but mine at least doesn't. I leave the 10D in centerweighted mode almost all the time. With a non-EF lens like the 28mm Distagon the camera will choose an increasingly too-long shutter speed as the lens is stopped down. This happens regardless of metering mode.
What I typically do is meter in manual mode with the lens wide open, then calculate & set the correct shutter speed for the aperture I plan to use. If I meter at f/2.8 with the 28mm and get a shutter speed recommendation of 1/2000th I can then stop down to f/8, set the shutter speed to 1/250th and know I'll get a good exposure. This is a somewhat slow approach but since I'm using a manual focus lens with no auto-aperture control I'm not exactly speed shooting anyway.
I got inconsistent exposures too, on my 10D, when I use my Distagon 21mm/2.8, Distagon 28mm/2.0 and Planar 85mm/1.4 ... but it really didn't bother me very much. I don't always get accurate/consistent exposure even with my Canon lenses, as I am fond of shooting in difficult lighting situations. So I make it a point to always check the histogram, regardless of whether I am using my Canon or Zeiss lenses, unless I am shooting on the fly. If I don't get a good histogram, I will retake the shot until it's nearly perfect - exposure wise. That's the beauty of digital photography.
Here are some pictures I took with my Zeiss lenses - mostly with the Distagon 28mm/2.0:
Two words: Handheld meter. Or is that three words?
Anyway, I love and use one. Well, Ok, it is too big, the battery always seems to be running down (which I don't understand at all), a couple of the controls are a little error-prone (i.e. operator error), and it was seriously overpriced but I love it anyway. Now, to look for a cheap smaller, used one.
First, great pics, Pondria! You have a natural eye for composition, especially those long diagonals. My favorite is the shot of old tools: what was the exposure?
You mention a split screen: is this a custom mod to your D30? My adapter has play on certain lenses, but doesn't seem to wreck focus. The D28/2.8 is my second most-used lens and since I always use it with film, enjoy the full AOV - spectacular performance. It also happens to be one of the cheap lenses from CZ.
There's also a discontinued D28/2, as mentioned by bobbytan, but the MTF and sheer size make it an underwhelming choice for me. I'm beginning to move away from SLRs for wide-angle activities, and going with rangefinders. The physical difference between symmetric and retrofocus designs by 21mm gets ridiculous.
Re D30 metering, I definitely notice the nonlinear response when stopping-down: shots are progressively overexposed, as Dave says. Will perform the experiment with centerweight mode, and report back.
katharsis,
You're right that the EF 28/2.8 can do essentially as well (I have both lenses). The only difference is wide-open, where the D28/2.8 is noticeably sharper and brighter in the corners:
Real men don't use light meters! I've been using a meterless Leica M lately, and paired it with a Sekonic 308BII which is light and fairly cheap. After training myself, I'm able to guess the light fairly well - good enough for negatives. Embarrassingly enough, my non-photographer wife likes to play the guessing game, and she usually wins.
Finally, for all fans of C/Y glass and Canon DSLRs, a warning. The following topic was broached today on the RTS mailing list about damaging your equipment. Apparently the mechanical linkage can fail to clear the inner surfaces of the mirror box. I immediately recalled resistance when unmounting certain lenses, the Aposonnar in particular. Here's what I found on closer inspection: http://patternassociates.com/rico/contax/misc/damage.jpg
The circular wear marks are caused by the raised metal protrusion (shape of a shark fin). This protects the adjacent lever (aperture stop down mechanism) when the lens is placed on a flat surface. For at least some of my C/Y lenses, the clearance is not sufficient, and has even gouged the plastic (circled purple). For future Canon DSLRs, the clearance may become unserviceable altogether. The situation is even worst for my Yashica ML lenses because the shark fin is missing: disappointingly cheap design, there.
Paul Kierstead wrote:
Two words: Handheld meter. Or is that three words?
Anyway, I love and use one. Well, Ok, it is too big, the battery always seems to be running down (which I don't understand at all), a couple of the controls are a little error-prone (i.e. operator error), and it was seriously overpriced but I love it anyway. Now, to look for a cheap smaller, used one.
Rico,
Thank you for the very informative reply !
And also, I appreciate that you found the old thread for the comparison between Canon and CZ.
The exposure of the shot was s=1/200 f=? ISO=400. Aperture was not recorded in EXIF I guess it was 2.8.
I'll watch out for the inside damaging. Scary scary ...
Pondria - I was referring to the 28/2.0. In fact, I sold it on eBay just yesterday ... for $811. Here's the ebay link if you want to see some pictures of it:
Coincidentally, I also sold my Distagon 21mm/2.8 for $1,295 yesterday (inclusive of 2 B+W filters) to a guy in Washington DC (from the Contax Forum).
I am now left with my Planar 85mm/1.4 MM/German version ... which I will probably take with me to my grave! I have not seen a more beautiful lens than this. Having said that, I have not seen the 85mm/1.2 version ... that may well be a Bo Derek. The 85mm/1.4 is not the sharpest lens in the Zeiss stable, but I love the creamy-smooth color. Canon lenses, by comparison, is a little too contrasty ... but I use my Canon lenses more than my Zeiss lenses, only because manual-focus and manual-metering is a PITA!
Good decision, Pondria. Here's a tip - get the Contax metal hood #4 to use on this lens, and you will need the 67/86 ring too. It looks AWESOME with the metal hood!
Now let me tell you a little story about a simple comparison test I did between the Planar 85mm/1.4 and Canon 70-200mm/4.0L. I shot with both lenses at 85mm, mounted on a tripod, with the aperture set to 5.6 or 8.0 (I can't remember now). I made a 13 x 19" print of both images ... and took it to my boss for his take. My boss owns about $50,000 worth of Leica equipment, and he also shoots with a Canon 1Ds now, with his L-lenses and his Leitz R-lenses on a CameraQuest Leica-EOS adaptor.
He has never owned any Zeiss lenses before, but when I asked him to pick "the better one" of the 2 prints I showed him, under a 5000K light booth, and without telling him which is which. It took him only 3 seconds to make his choice ... and it was the Zeiss image! It was not the sharpness. In terms of sharpness, the 70-200mm/4.0L is almost as sharp as the Planar 85mm/1.4! But the Zeiss lens etched out the Canon when it comes to color balance.
IMO, the Canon 70-200/4.0L is still a superb lens ... and so compact, light, and cheap! Having said that, I have been thinking about upgrading to a 70-200mm/2.8L IS version!
Bobby,
Sorry that I deleted my post without knowing that you were replying to it.
I have 70-200/2.8L non-IS. I'll run some tests and keep you posted. Here, quite a few folks use CZ lens. They will be also interested.
Thanks for the explanation. I thought for a minute I was seeing things! I kept hitting the refresh button, and closed and reopened the thread, and your last message was not there!
I am really pleased to see that there is a group of Canon shooters using CZ lenses. I am going to tell the Contax Forum members about this thread - as a lot of them are hungry for information about Zeiss lenses on a Canon EOS body - especially the DSLRs. For that matter, I will mention this thread to the Photo.Net members too, of which I am an active member.
Bobby,
As you may already have noticed, here are quite a few exotic-lens experts around. I learn from them every day. Please, bring in more experts.
I started looking into Zeiss for Cheap and high quality alternative to Canon, especially in wide angle. I grabbed a used Distagon 2.8/28 and it was a big satisfaction to me. I had my eyes on the Distagon 2.8/21 and the Plannar 1.4/85. I love taking photos of flowers. [Flora...] And the 1.4/85 seems to be the perfect flower lens. Let's see !
Pondria, the 28/2.8 is an incredibly sharp lens. I would go so far as to say that that lens is even better than the 50/1.4. I have a poster-size print made from a Velvia 50 film and it is still very sharp, and the grain is not noticeable either. Nobody would believe that it was shot with a 35mm lens.
I've just found out that the 85/1.4 will work with the Canon 1.4x TC and EF-12. Have not shot any pictures with this combo yet, but it should be as good as using any Canon lens with the combo, but you have to manual-focus and stop the lens down of course, and you will not have infinity focus. It should work with the EF-25 too. The extension tube has to be placed between the TC and lens. The TC will not work on it's own - it has to be partnered with the extension tube, so it's only good for macro work.
Edited by bobbytan on Aug 17, 2004 at 07:45 AM GMT
And the last shot is from the SONY F717, which also has a CZ lens, 
Let me just make sure I have this right. This is a manual CZ lens that is coupled to the D30 with an adapter. You can use the TTL lightmeter but have to set the aperature yourself. So how does this work with the Av mode you mentioned?
.
I leave the 10D in centerweighted mode almost all the time. With a non-EF lens like the 28mm Distagon the camera will choose an increasingly too-long shutter speed as the lens is stopped down. This happens regardless of metering mode.