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Archive 2010 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

FretNoMore
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p.1 #1 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

I assume all of them are very good, but are there a couple of them that really stand out?

Sep 02, 2010 at 11:54 AM

AhamB
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p.1 #2 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

The Distagon 21/2.8 and Makro-Planar 100/2. The Distagon 35/2 maybe to a slightly lower degree. A Distagon 35/1.4 will be available Q1 2011 and will likely be part of the "top 3" most impressive Zeisses.

There's a "couple" of images of them in this thread: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/860134

Sep 02, 2010 at 12:01 PM

denoir
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p.1 #3 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

Superstars: 21/2.8, 100 MP
Excellent: 35/2, 50 MP
Special (excellent for some things but bad for others): 50/1.4 & 85/1.4
Mediocre*: 28/2
We don't speak of it: 18/3.5

*=Will be disputed by some but is generally not considered to be a top performer.

Edited on Sep 02, 2010 at 04:09 PM · View previous versions

Sep 02, 2010 at 12:12 PM

Hammy
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p.1 #4 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

$30,000 Zeiss zoom among other gears:
http://vimeo.com/14250282

Sep 02, 2010 at 12:31 PM

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p.1 #5 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

In the hands of the right photographer even the worst of these Zeiss lenses can produce some wonderful results - ie. Philber with his 28mm and Donuss with the 18mm!

Sep 02, 2010 at 12:33 PM

FretNoMore
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p.1 #6 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

That's hardly debated. Just as I have no illusions about becoming a superstar by buying Zeiss glass.

Sep 02, 2010 at 12:35 PM

alundeb
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p.1 #7 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

denoir wrote:
Mediocre*: 28/2.8

*=Will be disputed by some but is generally not considered to be a top performer.

Not to dispute, I'm honestly interested to know because the focal length suits me.
I subscribe to Diglloyd's Zeiss articles, and know about the field curvature and that it has slightly more CA than the 35/2. What else should make me think twice?

Sep 02, 2010 at 12:37 PM

AhamB
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p.1 #8 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

Samuli has made good use of the 28 too.

Sep 02, 2010 at 01:35 PM

denoir
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p.1 #9 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

alundeb wrote:
denoir wrote:
Mediocre*: 28/2.8

*=Will be disputed by some but is generally not considered to be a top performer.

Not to dispute, I'm honestly interested to know because the focal length suits me.
I subscribe to Diglloyd's Zeiss articles, and know about the field curvature and that it has slightly more CA than the 35/2. What else should make me think twice?

Simply put it lacks the punch of the 35/2 (i.e depth/3D or whatever you wish to call it) and its rendering lacks the fine detail of the 21. If you look through the Z* image thread you can find several comparisons with other lenses. Philippe (philber) has done a number of comparisons with the 21 and there was alway a unanimous consensus that the 21 rendering was better.

My advice is to look through the sample thread. If the rendering style of the 28 does appeal to you, go for it. It's not a bad lens, it's just that the ones next to it (21 & 35) are generally considered to be better.

Put in another way the 28 is a jack of all trades but the master of none. All the other have some characteristic or feature that is unique or superior to the rest. The 28 does not - it is mediocre in every category. "Mediocre" here however means compared to the other Zeiss glass - not on an absolute scale. It's still a Zeiss with good colors and micro contrast.

Sep 02, 2010 at 01:42 PM

faremax
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p.1 #10 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

IMO the absolut best ZE lens is 21mm Distagon. It really stands out far above the rest. Second place belongs to 35mm, 50MP and 100MP and then there is everything else besides 85mm. Last place in my book goes to 85mm f/1.4 and for its near distance performance.

Sep 02, 2010 at 03:25 PM

denoir
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p.1 #11 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

faremax wrote:
IMO the absolut best ZE lens is 21mm Distagon. Second place belongs to 35mm, 50MP and 100MP and then there is everything else besides 85mm. Last place in my book goes to 85mm f/1.4 and for its near distance performance.

You mean like this at MFD?

This image is copyrighted by the owner

No, but you are correct in essence that neither planer 50 or 85 is optimized for closeups - you need be careful when you do it and it will only work well under certain circumstances. The 85 & 50 Planars are the last lenses I would recommend somebody to get as a first Zeiss lens. It does not mean that they are the worst though, just the most difficult to use. Unfortunately Zeiss pricing makes sure that many people get the 50/1.4 as their first lens which is definitely not a good idea.

As for the rest of the lenses you listed, the 100 MP is significantly better by any metric than the 50 MP or the 35/2. If you just go by optical performance the 100 MP is way above the 21 as well, but it's not fair to compare an UWA to a tele lens.

Sep 02, 2010 at 03:34 PM

faremax
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p.1 #12 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

I was talking about "my book"

and I put them from UWA to tele without any preference. I agree that optically 100MP is very good but when you compare it along others in its class I think there are equal IQ or even better lenses. When you compare UWAs 21mm is definitely a top contender if not a clear winner. I had a chance to compare 17mm TS-E and I liked Zeiss better. Maybe I am wrong but I am an amateur and I buy whatever rocks my boat and not what others say.

Sep 02, 2010 at 03:58 PM

CVickery
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p.1 #13 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

denoir wrote:...Mediocre*: 28/2.8...

*=Will be disputed by some but is generally not considered to be a top performer.

Are you referring to the 28/2 or the 25/2.8?

Sep 02, 2010 at 03:58 PM

denoir
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p.1 #14 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

faremax wrote:
I was talking about "my book"

and I put them from UWA to tele without any preference. I agree that optically 100MP is very good but when you compare it along others in its class I think there are equal IQ or even better lenses. When you compare UWAs 21mm is definitely a top contender if not a clear winner. I had a chance to compare 17mm TS-E and I liked Zeiss better. Maybe I am wrong but I am an amateur and I buy whatever rocks my boat and not what others say.

The only lens that could measure up to the 100 MP is the Leica 100/2.8 APO-Macro-Elmarit-R. It's an APO so it has no issues with LoCA but it is slightly less sharp and it's an f/2.8 rather than an f/2. Beyond that I don't think it has an equal present or past.

The 17-TSE and 24-TSE are as sharp across the frame as the 21 but there is of course a difference of rendering style.

Sep 02, 2010 at 04:08 PM

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p.1 #15 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

CVickery wrote:
denoir wrote:...Mediocre*: 28/2.8...

*=Will be disputed by some but is generally not considered to be a top performer.

Are you referring to the 28/2 or the 25/2.8?

28/2 (the OP asked about Canon mount Zeiss and there is no 25 ZE). I've fixed the aperture in my original post now, thanks.

Sep 02, 2010 at 04:09 PM

faremax
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p.1 #16 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

denoir wrote:
The only lens that could measure up to the 100 MP is the Leica 100/2.8 APO-Macro-Elmarit-R.

Voigtlander 125mm APO-Lanthar not only measures up but IMO beats it in IQ. Plus offers true 1:1 macro

Sep 02, 2010 at 04:16 PM

alundeb
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p.1 #17 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

Thank you!

I have been following the Z* images thread for a while, not so much lately, my Distagon 21/2.8 is in Oberkochen for repair (without knowing how it happened, I discovered one day the sunshade was smashed and the front cone was loose. Optics and everything fine, though) and it is no fun to be in that thread without a working Zeiss :-) Looked through once again, and found a few '28 images, including one of philbers comparisons with the '21.

The differences between the appearance of the images, as I see them, I would attribute to, in order of importance:

1 Quality of light.
2 Workflow, especially sharpening.
3 Depth of field.
4 Field of view.
5 Lens optical properties.

I saw some '28 images with more puch that '35 and '21 images, and vice versa. Nothing very conclusive IMO. If anything, it seemed less consistent than the others, it could be either flat or outstanding. I guess it is more difficult to use.

The 28/2 is on my list, after the MP 50. Would love the MP 100, but I just can't live without the tilt function in my Canon TS-E 90.

Sep 02, 2010 at 04:18 PM

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p.1 #18 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

faremax wrote:
denoir wrote:
The only lens that could measure up to the 100 MP is the Leica 100/2.8 APO-Macro-Elmarit-R.

Voigtlander 125mm APO-Lanthar not only measures up but IMO beats it in IQ. Plus offers true 1:1 macro

+1

Sep 02, 2010 at 04:41 PM

philber
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p.1 #19 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

alundeb, I would defintely put the 28 on the list of "specialty" Zeiss lenses. It is rather hard to not get a great result from the 21, the 35 f:2.0 and the 100MP. Not so with the 28. First, is has much more purple fringing than I would like (samples available on request, else I don't post "damaged goods". Second, if no foreground is included, shots definitely feel bland and boring, meaning it is not a great landscape lens. Third, colours are less saturated and contrast is less than with other Zeiss, so in some instances it serves very well indeed, but not always. Otherwise, there is nothing wrong with it: very nice, neutral colours, very sharp from MFD to infinity, a very nice cityscape lens. It can also, to to its lesser contrast, really help out in mid-day glare. On another thread, the 85 was categorized as a nice "car" lens, well the 28 is not half bad either, even if my shot was spontaneous walkabout and nothing to write home about.
Hope this helps

2012 © philber

2012 © philber

Canon EOS 5D Mark II 28 mm f/8.0 1/60 sec 100 ISO -1.0 EV

Sep 02, 2010 at 05:04 PM

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p.1 #20 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

faremax wrote:
denoir wrote:
The only lens that could measure up to the 100 MP is the Leica 100/2.8 APO-Macro-Elmarit-R.

Voigtlander 125mm APO-Lanthar not only measures up but IMO beats it in IQ. Plus offers true 1:1 macro

Umm. how do you figure? The MTF shows that the 100 MP is sharper at f/2 than the 125 APO-L is at f/5.6..

I have never used the 125mm but the simple optical data show the 100 MP playing in a completely different league. The Voigtländer an APO - a feature absent in the 100 MP but pretty commonplace in for instance Sigma macros.

http://slrlensreview.com/web/voigtlander-slr-lenses-132/macro-slr-lenses-137/367-voigtlander-apo-lanthar-macro-125mm-f25-sl-lens-review.html

http://slrlensreview.com/web/carl-zeiss-slr-lenses-51/macro-slr-lenses-96/287-carl-zeiss-makro-planar-t-100mm-f20-zf-lens-review.html

Voigtländer, MTF50 @ 125mm:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Zeiss, MTF50 @ 100mm:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Have I missed something? I this the correct Voigtländer lens? I'm asking because I can't see how you could come to compare these two as they clearly are on completely different levels of performance.

Sep 02, 2010 at 05:53 PM

surf monkey
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p.1 #21 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

I think the consensus is that the 21 and 100 have reached legendary status, although not completely without flaws (21 has distortion, 100 is not really a macro).
The 35f2 seems to be regarded as the next best lens, but a lot of Zeiss shooters are drooling over the soon to be released 35f1.4.
All three are sharp wide open in the center and are better than other equivalents in corner sharpness. But it's the special color, contrast and depth in the photos that are the real reason to love the Zeiss look. The build quality is excellent, although they're all large and heavy compared to other brands.
If you can afford them the 21, 35 (either one) and 100 make a great kit.

Sep 02, 2010 at 06:17 PM

faremax
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p.1 #22 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

Umm. how do you figure? The MTF shows that the 100 MP is sharper at f/2 than the 125 APO-L is at f/5.6.

I figure by using both at the same time and making my own conclusions. I don't buy and keep equipment by looking at charts and reading reviews. I buy, test and sell it if I don't like the results. I am more than satisfied with sharpenss of Voigtlander as it is plus I reduce size of all of my images when I process them so I doubt you would notice any difference between those 2 when size is reduced. I bought first 85mm f/1.4 and then 100MP to see if any of them would make me want to sell my 85mm f/1.2II. Zeiss 85 was terribly soft with objects closer than 20-30 feet and 100MP did not impress me enough to sell 85mm1.2II nor Voigtlander. Plus 1:2 macro was a big minus too. If this is what you like I am very happy for you, I am simply stating my opinion.

Sep 02, 2010 at 06:21 PM

MichaD
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p.1 #23 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

The CV is in a totally different league for APO correction. Comparing it to a Sigma APO is close to blasphemy (I have the 150 and 70 macros and had the 120-300 Sigma APO as well). It is also a cream-machine in the bokeh department.

If you are looking for Zeiss contrast the Voigtländer will not be your lens.
I'm also not totally surprised it is beat by the Zeiss in resolution. The CV has quite a bit of spherical abberation for such a slow lens. It still beats the heck out of the Sigma macros and I wouldn't part with it for 2 Z* 100MPs.

Sep 02, 2010 at 06:34 PM

denoir
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p.1 #24 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

faremax wrote:
Umm. how do you figure? The MTF shows that the 100 MP is sharper at f/2 than the 125 APO-L is at f/5.6.

I figure by using both at the same time and making my own conclusions. I don't buy and keep equipment by looking at charts and reading reviews. I buy, test and sell it if I don't like the results. I am more than satisfied with sharpenss of Voigtlander as it is plus I reduce size of all of my images when I process them so I doubt you would notice any difference between those 2 when size is reduced. I bought first 85mm f/1.4 and then 100MP to see if any of them would make me want to sell my 85mm f/1.2II. Zeiss 85 was terribly soft with objects closer than 20-30 feet and 100MP did not impress me enough to sell 85mm1.2II nor Voigtlander. Plus 1:2 macro was a big minus too. If this is what you like I am very happy for you, I am simply stating my opinion.

And you are of course perfectly entitled to your opinion. I was just wondering the reasoning behind you statement about the 125. My curiosity increased by cogitech's agreement with your statement as the performance numbers simply don't add up.

The thing is that, if we go by preference of rendering style only rather than the optical performance measurements then it becomes difficult to answer the OP's question.

Sep 02, 2010 at 06:45 PM

denoir
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p.1 #25 · So, which of the Zeiss for Canon lenses are great?

MichaD wrote:
The CV is in a totally different league for APO correction. Comparing it to a Sigma APO is close to blasphemy (I have the 150 and 70 macros and had the 120-300 Sigma APO as well). It is also a cream-machine in the bokeh department.

If you are looking for Zeiss contrast the Voigtländer will not be your lens.
I'm also not totally surprised it is beat by the Zeiss in resolution. The CV has quite a bit of spherical abberation for such a slow lens. It still beats the heck out of the Sigma macros and I wouldn't part with it for 2 Z* 100MPs.

Interesting, thanks for the info. I wasn't seriously comparing it to a Sigma - I was just saying that APO design isn't necessarily associated with high IQ.

Sep 02, 2010 at 06:48 PM


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