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Archive 2010 · My new Zeiss ZF 100 f/2 has focus issues

  
 
Todd Adamson
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p.3 #1 · My new Zeiss ZF 100 f/2 has focus issues


I am already feeling better. Using theSuede's suggestion of rolling slightly off the dot in the close direction, it's looking like I will be able to have success! I just wait for the green dot, then roll off enough to get the arrow back. I just did a bunch of test shots with the D2x of some books, and of my wife just staring into the camera (more controlled); then I took her outside where I would have a faster shutter, and took many shots of her. She is a nervous and twitchy subject, so most of my portrait clients are in fact easier to shoot. She had the dog with her outside, too. I took 30 shots of them total, and only missed focus on two. Some examples:

f/2.0

http://fredmiranda.adamsonstudios.com.s3.amazonaws.com/100mp/_D2B2708_2.jpg

f/3.2

http://fredmiranda.adamsonstudios.com.s3.amazonaws.com/100mp/_D2B2723_32.jpg

f/4.0 (obviously, I was focusing on the close eye)

http://fredmiranda.adamsonstudios.com.s3.amazonaws.com/100mp/_D2B2735_4.jpg



Aug 28, 2010 at 05:21 PM
jmcfadden
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p.3 #2 · My new Zeiss ZF 100 f/2 has focus issues


looks great and as always , the reason you are a success is your ability to learn even when treated as poorly as you have been at times in this thread

J



Aug 28, 2010 at 05:33 PM
ibcj
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p.3 #3 · My new Zeiss ZF 100 f/2 has focus issues


Definitely do some testing on a tripod with Live View and magnification. When you get your D3 back, try shutting off the focus point and going without it. I didn't like the viewfinder of the D700, and the fact that I couldn't shut off the focus point. The D3 viewfinder is much easier for my eyes and find that I have greater success when the focus point is turned off. The Zeiss payoff is worth the work.


Aug 28, 2010 at 06:20 PM
philber
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p.3 #4 · My new Zeiss ZF 100 f/2 has focus issues


Good on you, Todd! Glad you are now a happy camper. Makten's amazing shots demonstrate what we've been saying all along: don't give up just yet!
Makten, amazing 3D on that first shot of yours... and, as so often, a great shot where others would see nothing...



Aug 29, 2010 at 12:30 AM
Todd Adamson
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p.3 #5 · My new Zeiss ZF 100 f/2 has focus issues


jmcfadden wrote:
looks great and as always , the reason you are a success is your ability to learn even when treated as poorly as you have been at times in this thread

J


Hehe...thanks, John! I don't worry too much about comments from people who clearly didn't even read my post, and also have no evident desire to contribute. That crap doesn't bother me. But you have a good general point. We DO need to open our minds to learn and improve, and sometimes that's hard. I was sure, after a few test shots using conditions and methodology to which I had become accustomed, that this lens was somehow failing me. But I quickly opened my mind to the possibiltiy that I just didn't "get it," and I really think I'm on my way with the 100 M-P. I'm sure the road will have more bumps for me....it's different than any lens I have ever pointed at anything; but I now have confidence that I will one day master it, thanks to the help of several posters in this thread.



Aug 29, 2010 at 12:55 AM
Todd Adamson
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p.3 #6 · My new Zeiss ZF 100 f/2 has focus issues


nystrpr wrote:
Definitely do some testing on a tripod with Live View and magnification. When you get your D3 back, try shutting off the focus point and going without it. I didn't like the viewfinder of the D700, and the fact that I couldn't shut off the focus point. The D3 viewfinder is much easier for my eyes and find that I have greater success when the focus point is turned off. The Zeiss payoff is worth the work.


I will be doing much testing/practicing with this lens on the D3 at the earliest possible time. I don't have confidence that I will be able to focus visually and dependably with the stock D3 setup, but I am considering trying a magnifier and possibly alternate screens.



Aug 29, 2010 at 12:57 AM
Todd Adamson
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p.3 #7 · My new Zeiss ZF 100 f/2 has focus issues


philber wrote:
Good on you, Todd! Glad you are now a happy camper. Makten's amazing shots demonstrate what we've been saying all along: don't give up just yet!
Makten, amazing 3D on that first shot of yours... and, as so often, a great shot where others would see nothing...


Thank you, yes, I am feeling much better about it.

It's still amazing to me what this lens does! Even at f/4, as in the dog shot above, the bokeh is gorgeous, and the DOF is so small! I mentioned that I focused on the front eye, but in the reduced version, even the back eye looks pretty sharp. I've posted an actual pixel crop below, to demonstrate how fast the sharpness falls off. This is NOT a cherry-picked shot. My dog doesn't sit without moving, sniffing and looking around, so I have to be quick on the MF. Of 8 frames I shot of him earlier, every single one was this sharp, with focus right where I intended it:

http://fredmiranda.adamsonstudios.com.s3.amazonaws.com/100mp/_D2B2735_100.jpg



Aug 29, 2010 at 01:02 AM
OneAnt
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p.3 #8 · My new Zeiss ZF 100 f/2 has focus issues


Todd how fortunate you are to have such a stunning and elegant model and ugly dog to practice on.
They say its too sharp for portraits, I just want to know who 'they' are. Your wife is stunning and her eyes would make for a photo topic on their own.

I suppose you could dress the dog up a bit ...

zf100


The detail that is maintained in the oof is what I love about the zeiss. Your two shots of the young man are the best demonstration of it. It was the Nikon 85/1.4 that made me see it. I had the Nikon all lined up to buy and the sale fell through, that night it featured on a thread and picture after picture was of subjects isolated from their backgrounds. It was like eating a bag of sugar with a spoon and before the last pic I was feeling very sad and woozy.

JMc ...did you know that both Nikon and Zeiss ...only have one 'i'



Aug 29, 2010 at 05:19 AM
jotdeh
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p.3 #9 · My new Zeiss ZF 100 f/2 has focus issues


theSuede wrote:
Spherical aberration is quite hard to visualize, but imagine that you could separate the light passing through the lens like an onion, in several concentric layers. The middle would be very high F-no's, the outer layers would be the lowest F-no's (largest apertures).

Light comes from one POINT in the scene, passes through the DISC of the aperture, and is concentrated to a POINT on the sensor again (if the point in front of the lens is "in focus"). Spherical aberration means that light passing through the aperture closer to the rim is not focused at the same plane as light
...Show more

I really want to thank you for this explanation, it makes so much sense and it's great to know about the effect spherical abberration has on DOF - either extended DOF at slight loss of microcontrast or better background separation, at same FL and aperture...

It also helps to understand what makes the 100MP so special, and lustworthy...



Aug 29, 2010 at 05:24 PM
Todd Adamson
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p.3 #10 · My new Zeiss ZF 100 f/2 has focus issues


I just wanted to update this thread, because I feel somewhat vindicated to have found that the lens did indeed have a problem. Using the "flip" focus method recommended by Joakim, I did begin to be able to get some in-focus images, though I was still annoyed that the focus confirmation dot didn't work. However, even then my ability to get focus seemed inconsistent, and random. I was very frustrated, and was having a hard time believing it should be this way, since I can get focus with any other MF lens I tried.

Since then I have done a LOT of shooting with this lens and others. I borrowed a ZF.2 and did some extensive comparisons (different apertures, different subject-to-camera distances, etc, all on tripod with mirror lock-up and cable release), shooting various live and inanimate subjects as well as focus charts. I came to the firm conclusion that the ZF I had was messed up, both with regard to AF confirmation dot (which worked perfectly on the ZF.2 lens), and focus consistency.

As I was getting ready to return the ZF.2 lens, I was again comparing focus ring damping, because it had always seemed a little tight on the ZF, and I realized that when mounted, there was a significant difference in the amount of rotational (and even a bit of lateral) play between the two. The ZF had a LOT of play...maybe 5 degrees, I don't know, that's just a guess, but I don't know how I missed that before.

At any rate, green dot confirmation was off, and I suspect the inconsistency I saw was coming from a combination of the very hard damping, and the wiggly mount.

I have recently picked up another copy of the ZF version 100MP, and it's perfect. I'm getting a very high keeper rate, similar if not better than with my other MF lenses, just as I would expect. Even at f/2, no problems. More good news: in doing so much shooting with these and other MF lenses over the last couple of months, I have gotten very good at seeing focus in the D3's viewfinder, with stock focusing screen. I now have my focus points turned off, and never depend on the green dot. However, I did test it with this new copy, and it's very accurate.

In summary, the lens which caused me to start this thread was definitely hosed up. And I am very happy to have put this frustrating issue behind me.



Oct 16, 2010 at 09:48 AM
philber
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p.3 #11 · My new Zeiss ZF 100 f/2 has focus issues


Good going, Todd, glad to hear it!


Oct 16, 2010 at 01:54 PM
Todd Adamson
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p.3 #12 · My new Zeiss ZF 100 f/2 has focus issues


philber wrote:
Good going, Todd, glad to hear it!


Thank you, sir! I am quite relieved. For a while I was thinking there was some deep dark secret to using Zeiss glass that I just couldn't comprehend.



Oct 16, 2010 at 10:34 PM
grasmuc
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p.3 #13 · My new Zeiss ZF 100 f/2 has focus issues


1 AF detection
Regarding focus accuracy there is no difference between an AF lens and a MF lens, both using the AF detection from the camera (only the AF lens uses a motor, the MF lens your hand to adjust the focus). What I want to say is that both lens types have to be fine-tuned with the micro focus adjust feature of recent cameras in case that they are slightly out of focus in a certain direction (backwards/forwards).
2 Live view
If live view is used (on a tripod) the picture has to be and will be sharp if it was sharp on the screen.
3 Viewfinder
If focus is set only by the matt screen of the Viewfinder and focus is not correct, then the matt screen is not perfectly in position. That might be corrected by a shim. (good luck ...)
4 Focus shift
If focus is precise at open aperture but shifts backwards the more you close the aperture of the lens, the lens shows focus shift which cannot corrected by a "trick". Many lenses of any brand in the focal rage of 50-135 mm unfortunately show this effect, especially if the lens is based on the (Zeiss) Planar optical formula.



Oct 17, 2010 at 09:50 AM
Makten
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p.3 #14 · My new Zeiss ZF 100 f/2 has focus issues


grasmuc wrote:
If live view is used (on a tripod) the picture has to be and will be sharp if it was sharp on the screen.


That's not necessarily true. If you use a lens with some spherical aberration and the camera doesn't use the selected aperture (which applies to the D700 at least), the image can be affected by focus shift, even if it looked sharp on the screen.



Oct 17, 2010 at 10:02 AM
Keith B.
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p.3 #15 · My new Zeiss ZF 100 f/2 has focus issues


Todd Adamson wrote:
iAs I was getting ready to return the ZF.2 lens, I was again comparing focus ring damping, because it had always seemed a little tight on the ZF, and I realized that when mounted, there was a significant difference in the amount of rotational (and even a bit of lateral) play between the two. The ZF had a LOT of play...maybe 5 degrees, I don't know, that's just a guess, but I don't know how I missed that before....
...
In summary, the lens which caused me to start this thread was definitely hosed up. And I am very happy to
...Show more

It would have been nice to know that there was a mechanical defect in the focusing mechanism at the beginning, but I'm glad there is now a solution.



Oct 17, 2010 at 10:59 AM
Todd Adamson
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p.3 #16 · My new Zeiss ZF 100 f/2 has focus issues


Keith B. wrote:
It would have been nice to know that there was a mechanical defect in the focusing mechanism at the beginning, but I'm glad there is now a solution.


Yeah, I really wish I would have noticed the play in the mount, still feel a bit silly about that. As far as focus damping, I noticed right away how stiff it was, but had read several reports from people stating that this lens was VERY damped, and also that there was some variability, so I didn't think of it as a defect at all.



Oct 17, 2010 at 11:51 AM
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