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Archive 2010 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

Mocca
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p.2 #1 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

I love C1s skintone tools.
Apart from that, it kills TIFF files and smears color IMO.

Mar 08, 2010 at 02:45 PM

Nill Toulme
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p.2 #2 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

Wow... first time I've heard that!

I haven't tackled the skintone tools yet. Is there a tutorial?

Nill

Mar 08, 2010 at 03:17 PM

Peter Figen
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p.2 #3 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

"Apart from that, it kills TIFF files and smears color IMO. "

Killing tiff files

I've processed thousands upon thousands of tiffs through C1 and never had a dead one yet. The default NR settings for high ISO images did indeed smear colors, but it's your own fault for using the defaults and not testing. I reset all NR to zero and save that as the new default, as I can deal with noise more effectively in Ps or NN later on.

Mar 08, 2010 at 03:24 PM

Kolor-Pikker
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p.2 #4 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

philtax wrote:
Does V5 have reduce the "banding" visible in some underexposed 5D II shots?

Thanks,

Phil

AFAIK, Nik Dfine is the only NR tool with banding reduction, but it can only handle vertical or horizontal at one time, not cross-banding.
From my experience with the 5D2 though, the worst banding noise is chroma, and can be gotten rid of easily. Luminosity banding on my 5D2 doesn't start being visible until I push the files even furthur.

Mar 08, 2010 at 06:59 PM

Mocca
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p.2 #5 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

Peter Figen wrote:
"Apart from that, it kills TIFF files and smears color IMO. "

Killing tiff files

I've processed thousands upon thousands of tiffs through C1 and never had a dead one yet. The default NR settings for high ISO images did indeed smear colors, but it's your own fault for using the defaults and not testing. I reset all NR to zero and save that as the new default, as I can deal with noise more effectively in Ps or NN later on.

No, sorry.

In 4.8 TIFFs were changed with all settings at zero upon resave. It's a verified bug (might have been dealt with in 5x versions.) Iterations of TIFF files changed incrementally.

Color smearing takes place with all settings zero.

I'll have a look and see if I can dig up something for show and tell ;-)

Mar 09, 2010 at 02:37 AM

Peter Figen
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p.2 #6 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

"In 4.8 TIFFs were changed with all settings at zero upon resave. It's a verified bug (might have been dealt with in 5x versions.) Iterations of TIFF files changed incrementally."

I follow the Phase User Forums pretty closely and what you're referring to is something I've never seen anyone complain about. I used all the iterations of 4.8 for the Mac and I can say that I've never seen what you're talking about. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "All tiffs were changed with all settings at zero on resave". How were they changed? It sounds like you were opening already processed tiffs in C1, because that's the only way you could actually resave.

"Color smearing takes place with all settings zero."

The bug, which I reported to Phase, required you to move the sliders off of zero and then back other you WOULD get the smearing. You can easily see it on a high iso image. Try it. That workaround works. They have finally gotten it so you can set a default of no NR, but it wasn't always that way. Current version is 5.1.

Mar 09, 2010 at 03:05 AM

Mocca
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p.2 #7 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

Fun with TIFF rgb

Create a TIFF document in Photoshop with the rgb values as below. Check values with eyedropper.

PS : rgb = 4-4-4 [save]

[Open in]

C1 : rgb = 0-0-0 (checked with eyedropper) [save]

[Open in]

PS : rgb = 0 to 4 - 0 to 4 - 0 to 4 (new values = hello noise...)

PS : rgb = 10-10-10 [save]

[Open in]

C1 : rgb = 12-12-12 [save]

[Open in]

PS : rgb = 10 to 15 - 10 to 15 - 10 to 15 (hello noise...)
________

The more times you save a TIFF the more the errors compound.
________

The color smearing I mentioned looks like below, and is subtle. I had a few images with very small yellow flowers on green grass and they just didn't work in C1. It will only influence a few images. When and how I'm not sure.

I should have made that clear in my initial comment (it wasn't meant to sound trollish I swear :-) )

The third image show the noise introduced in TIFF images (clarified by level adjustment).

2012 © Mocca

2012 © Mocca

2012 © Mocca

2012 © Mocca

Mar 09, 2010 at 02:27 PM

Mocca
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p.2 #8 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

In any event, the reason I'm not using C1 now is that I had color profile problems with it. We (tech support and I) never managed to get things working.

I'm on Lightroom now, and the only thing I miss is the skin tone tool. Detail etc. I find to be at the same level.

TIFF issue may be sorted in V5 (I don't know...)

C1 is better at some things for some people and vice versa - it's not miles better than the competition (I'm thinking Adobe, haven't tried so many others...)

Mar 09, 2010 at 02:38 PM

Nill Toulme
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p.2 #9 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

I don't understand — why would you ever open a TIF in C1 in the first place?

Nill

Mar 09, 2010 at 02:46 PM

Gil_W
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p.2 #10 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

Nill Toulme wrote:
I don't understand — why would you ever open a TIF in C1 in the first place?

Nill

Unless you are shooting with a 1Ds mk1 (or another TIFF RAW camera) C1 is mainly a RAW converter and not one I would think you would want to be pushing TIFFs through imported from PS. I guess you may be trying to use the skin tones in C1 after editing in PS but...
Even going from LR to PS back to LR, I notice some subtle color tone and brightness changes.

Mar 09, 2010 at 04:20 PM

Nill Toulme
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p.2 #11 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

Patient: "Doctor, it hurts when I do this."

Doctor: "Don't do that." ;-)

Nill

p.s. Even for original 1-series cameras, the .tif extension was just an oddity. It's not a proper tif file; it's a RAW file with a tif header. You would never (intentionally) convert it and then save the resulting true tif over the original "tif" RAW file.

Mar 09, 2010 at 08:24 PM

Gil_W
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p.2 #12 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

Nill Toulme wrote:
Patient: "Doctor, it hurts when I do this."

Doctor: "Don't do that." ;-)

Nill

p.s. Even for original 1-series cameras, the .tif extension was just an oddity. It's not a proper tif file; it's a RAW file with a tif header. You would never (intentionally) convert it and then save the resulting true tif over the original "tif" RAW file.

! I bought a used 1Ds back in 2005 and still have it. To this day I thought the RAW file was a real life ".tif" file.

Mar 10, 2010 at 12:58 AM

Mocca
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p.2 #13 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

I used C1 for TIFFs for the neat color tools (as Gil-W sussed :-) )

Apart from the way it responds to TIFF, I can't really come up with a reason not to use it to process them

I realize it sounds a little ... off ... to most people

Mar 10, 2010 at 05:48 AM

Mocca
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p.2 #14 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

Nill Toulme wrote:
Wow... first time I've heard that!

I haven't tackled the skintone tools yet. Is there a tutorial?

Nill

You might know of this already :

Phase One video about the color tools -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rcDh7vEioA&feature=channel

This one on the skin tone tool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-KtitWIsRQ

All their videos (really good stuff

)

Mar 10, 2010 at 09:49 AM

Nill Toulme
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p.2 #15 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

Thanks!

Nill

Mar 10, 2010 at 01:50 PM

SoundHound
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p.2 #16 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

In reviewing the pictures of the lighthouse the biggest part of what I see is more "Local Contrast" (similar to an effect in PS' Sharpening that enhances contrast not sharpness) with C1 Compared to ACR. DxO also shows more LC too. This is pleasing to me and I often use local contrast in many of my images (globally but more frequently by selection).

Mar 10, 2010 at 04:13 PM

Savas K
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p.2 #17 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

I discovered that C1 in my demo testing did a nicer raw interpretation than DPP. Trouble is, it does not have the peripheral illumination and distortion correction that DPP offers.

Apr 26, 2010 at 10:57 PM

PhilDrinkwater
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p.2 #18 · Is C1 THAT good, and how much do you use it for?

I'm a lr user but there's some things about c1 which are nice. However none of the other raw converters I've tried come even close to the new lr 3 beta 2 for high iso shots. If that's important for you, it's time to look again. If not, c1 is a very competent converter. I'd rate lr and c1 very close to each other in general - they both have things which they do best.

Take a look through my thoughts if you like..

http://www.phildweddingphotography.co.uk/blog/index.php/2010/04/lightroom-3-beta-2-vs-capture-one-pro-5-vs-bibble-5-pro-vs-dxo-optics-pro-6/

Apr 26, 2010 at 11:40 PM

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