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Archive 2010 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm

  
 
klam
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


Is it possible to use step up rings with either the Lee or Cokin Z-pro holder? My widest lens is the 16-35II with 82mm filter threads. But I want to adapt a filter system occasionally for other lenses with 77mm and 72mm filter threads. If I buy the Lee/Cokin 82mm ring for their respective filter holders and then use 72-82mm and 77-82mm step up rings, would that work?

Does the Lee or Cokin Z-pro holder vignette without a 82mm wide angle adaptor? It seems the Lee 82mm wide angle adapter ring is sold out everywhere.

Thanks.



Feb 26, 2010 at 04:49 PM
Mike K
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


yes, step up rings work fine. I am using the Cokin Z holder with 82mm adapter and step up rings for my 77mm lenses as you suggest.
Mike K



Feb 26, 2010 at 04:58 PM
gardenvalley
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


A more elegant( although expensive) solution would be to get 72mm and 77mm adapters for whatever holder you end up with. I`m guessing here but I suspect either holder will vignette at 16mm. I tried the Lee w/a adapter and filter holder on my Nikon 18-35 (on a 35mm film camera) and experienced vignetting at the wide end. It went away by about 20mm but what`s the sense in that? If I have 18mm I want to be able to use it. This all assumes you`re using an FX camera but other factors come into the equation like the coverage of the lens which is not always related to focal length. Some empirical research may be required( try it and see). Sorry I can`t provide a definitve answer, I`m sure someone will be along soon who can.


Feb 26, 2010 at 05:11 PM
klam
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


Thanks for the suggestions. My lenses with 72mm filters are 35/45/85/135mm, so not too wide that it should vignette I think, even with a step up ring. Thanks for the info Mike K.

I am using a full frame 5D2, so vignetting at the wide end with the 16-35II is a concern. I've heard similar stories about vignetting from 20mm and upwards, just wondering if anybody has experience with this particular lens and set up. With the Lee or Cokin Z-pro, could some of the filter holder layers be removed in their modular design? I don't think I would ever use three filters simultaneously, so would it vignette with one of the levels removed?



Feb 26, 2010 at 05:47 PM
Mike K
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


klam wrote:
I am using a full frame 5D2, so vignetting at the wide end with the 16-35II is a concern. I've heard similar stories about vignetting from 20mm and upwards, just wondering if anybody has experience with this particular lens and set up. With the Lee or Cokin Z-pro, could some of the filter holder layers be removed in their modular design? I don't think I would ever use three filters simultaneously, so would it vignette with one of the levels removed?


Yes you can remove some of the holder layers, I just did that on the Cokin Z, but I had to find some shorter metric screws to match at the hardware store. I believe Lee also sells shorter screws as you can remove some holder layers there too. I removed two layers (actually 4 in the original) not because of vignetting, just because it was too ungainly in the bag, hooking onto the padding (and its 5x5" wide).
I tested out vignetting on a Canon 24 TSE II both shifting and tilting. Only when the lens was shifted to the max and tilted to the max in the same direction did I see a hint of vignetting. For me this is not a real world problem as I never shift and tilt that much, let alone at the same time in the same direction. The lens would have to be nearly touching the focal plane for 8 degrees of tilt to be appropriate for that focal length.
Mike K



Feb 26, 2010 at 06:41 PM
Roland W
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


The Lee holder system is fully modular, and you can configure it from one slot to four or more slots. You may need to buy some of the shorter screws, but they are easily available from B&H or some local dealers. For wide uses you may want to limit the number of slots on the holder. I do not know if the Z-Pro can be configured, but I think you should go with the Lee holder system anyway. You are going to want the availability of a wide angle adapter for your wide lens, plus the Lee system is built very well. I highly recomend it. One additional thing that the Lee system offers is additional filter holder edge parts that can work with different thicknesses of filter material, so you can mount most any supplier's filters, and still have them as close together as possible.

So I think you will want an 82mm wide angle adapter for your 16-35II. If you need to wait until you can find one, I think you should. Besides, the standard 82mm costs just as much as the wide angle one. I only have the wide angle adapter in the 82mm size, so I can not tell you about if you could get away with a standard one. I may be able to check later today to see how many filters can work on the 16-35 II using the wide angle 82mm adapter, and that may help you decide if you want to go that way.

For your other 72mm lenses, you may be fine with a standard adapter rather than the wide angle one. You may want to play with step up rings to accomodate various sizes, but I suggest you think about eventually getting regular adapters for each size, which cost less than wide angle adapters, and should be availabe.

I presume your 45mm lens is the tilt shift lens, and it has need for more filter space to accomodate a shifted shot. I am not sure if it would be needed, but you may want a 72mm wide angle adapter for the 45mm lens, and it would of course work fine on the 35mm lens, or any lens. I think my only 72mm adapter is a wide angle one, so I can't check the 45mm TS-E lens with a regular adapter.



Feb 26, 2010 at 06:45 PM
klam
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


Thanks for all the information guys.

The problem now is that almost everywhere is sold out of the 82mm wide angle adapter for the Lee holder. 2Filter.com, B&H, Adorama, my local camera stores...

I may go with the Cokin Z-Pro since I'll want it for my upcoming trip next month. According to some, the Cokin Z-Pro holder can be reverse mounted for wide angle, so that the holder slots point backwards and out of the way for wide angle lenses. There is one slot on the reverse side so that can be used for my 16-35II probably.



Feb 27, 2010 at 03:21 AM
Fjellfalck
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


klam wrote:
Thanks for all the information guys.

The problem now is that almost everywhere is sold out of the 82mm wide angle adapter for the Lee holder. 2Filter.com, B&H, Adorama, my local camera stores...

I may go with the Cokin Z-Pro since I'll want it for my upcoming trip next month. According to some, the Cokin Z-Pro holder can be reverse mounted for wide angle, so that the holder slots point backwards and out of the way for wide angle lenses. There is one slot on the reverse side so that can be used for my 16-35II probably.


I bought a Lee 82 and 77mm Wide Adapter ring from adorama recently. They were back ordered, but I placed an order. They said they were expected in three weeks. And they were right

Best regards

Fjellfalck



Feb 27, 2010 at 10:04 AM
Roland W
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


So I have just checked my Lee holder system with my Canon 16-35 f2.8 L II lens, and the Lee 82mm wide angle adapter. The check was on a full frame body, and I checked both wide open and stopped down. With (3) of the 2mm slot tracks mounted on the holder, there is no problem with the tracks on the sides of a landscape shot with the lens at 16mm, but if you rotate the tracks to about a 45 degree angle, you can see them in the corner of the frame. If you reduce the slot tracks to only (2), they are now not visible even at the 45 degree rotation.

So for Lee, you for sure want and need the wide angle adapter for this combination of lens and a full frame body. It is rare that you want to orient the slots to 45 degrees, but it can be something you may want to do. Two slots is plenty for most any situation. I am sure that if you got a Lee non wide 82mm adapter, you would not even be able to use one slot at 16mm.

I have no direct experience with the Colkin Z-Pro, and I would hope you would get clear confirmation from a user for your lens and full frame use before you went that way. Your discription of using the Z-Pro that you reported sounds strange, but I have never seen the hardware. If you go with Lee, and if you can not get a Lee 82mm wide angle adapter right away, you could always hand hold your filters for the trip you are planning soon.



Feb 27, 2010 at 12:35 PM
sjms
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


with the z holder you will make it to 20mm FF w/o vignetting and that about that give or take a mm. thats about the limit of the Z. the Lee system and its w/a adapter have the edge. one caveat though when rotating the lee holder at about 30 deg rotating you do get some ever so slight vignetting in a corner. that is easily resolved in post unless you have busy corners. the Lee holder is simply a better overall design for FF.


Feb 27, 2010 at 01:07 PM
klam
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


@Fjellfalck & @Roland W, thanks for checking it out. You guys have convinced me to go for the Lee with the 82mm wide angle adapter. It would be disappointing to find the filters vignetting on the 16-35II after having spent so much money. The 16-35II is presumably one of the main "landscape" work lenses for many photographers. I was surprised to find very little info on the Web about how it vignettes with the 16-35II. Thanks for testing it out.

@sjms I read similar things about the Cokin Z vignette at anything below 20mm on full frame. On threads like this one...

http://www.redbubble.com/groups/redbubble/forums/2126/topics/68326-grad-nd-for-uwa-shots
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/837824/0#7806834

and others they say it can be mounted reverse for wide angle. But I think they speak of the 10-22mm on a crop body. Still no confirmation it would work on the 16-35II with its 82mm front and a full frame body.



Feb 27, 2010 at 08:32 PM
sjms
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


reversing the Z doesn't help due to the position of the adapter ring itself. it doesn't change. and that where the issue lies. and yes all these people are referring to crop bodies not FF.


Feb 27, 2010 at 10:32 PM
Mike K
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


When you refer to reversing the mount, do you mean placing the lens adaper ring in front of the main filter holder body thus redcing the effective visible depth? Certainly the central hole of the Coking Z holder is plenty large for this approach, I will try it in 3 days when I am reunited with my equipment.
Mike K



Feb 28, 2010 at 12:54 AM
gardenvalley
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


Reversing the Z-Pro means turning it 180 degrees and using one of the available slots to attach it to the adapter. This results in only one slot at the front. The Z-Pro is angular and clunky with sharp corners and I wouldn`t be using it if I could afford using Lee again. There are 2 other caveats with the Cokin set up; You are limited to using the Cokin polariser unless you want to kludge a screw-in polarisr on the lens and then the adapter and then the holder with the risk of introducing vignetting again and it`s not easy to use. I`ve found the Cokin polariser to be pretty good though. The other factor is the way the "springs" on the Cokin slots hold the filters, these springs are fairly strong and can cause the filters to bow in the middle. Do you want to put a bit of bent plastic in front of your lens?. I got round this by cutting the springs off and sticking tiny bits of soft-side Velcro in their place to provide enough friction to hold the filters. It`s not ideal but it kinda works. IIRC the Lee uses a similar arrangement to the Cokin. A better solution can be found on the Cokin P holder where the springs act on the edge of the filter from the side rather than on the flat side. It was interesting to read Roland`s findings that the Lee doesn`t vignette with 2 slots at 16mm but put on the Lee polariser with it`s adapter and you may well be back to vignetting again. As a polariser is the most useful landscape filter you might as well just use a screw-in polariser and hand-hold grads and NDs. I only persevere with the Cokin because it`s relativley easy to put on and remove. I would be wary about using a screw-in filter with plastic lens threads if the filter was being put on and taken off on a regular basis.


Feb 28, 2010 at 05:20 AM
sjms
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


at 16mm you will find the the angle of the light can do some pretty weird things to the image too.

Edited on Feb 28, 2010 at 03:44 PM · View previous versions



Feb 28, 2010 at 08:30 AM
Roland W
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


I have checked another combination of things. The body is full frame, the lens my Canon 16-35 f2.8 L II, and with a Lee 82mm wide angle adapter on it, and the Lee filter holder system hooked on the adapter. I put only one slot on the Lee holder, and then added the 105mm threaded adapter at the front that can accept a polarizer.

I first put my B&W 105mm polarizer on, and the one I have is kind of thick from front to back, so it is probably worst case. My filter projects about 12mm forward from the face of the 105mm threaded adapter. For that combination, the front edge of the polarizer vignettes at the 16mm focal length setting on the lens a little. By 18mm the vignetting is gone.

I next tried a "cheap" Zeikos multi coated polarizer, which is not as thick from front to back. This filter projected about 9.6mm from the face of the 105mm threaded adapter. For that combination with the thinner polarizer, the front edge of the polarizer vignettes at the 16mm focal length setting on the lens just a very small amount. By 17mm the vignetting is gone.

So one slot with a polarizer is reasonably usable, but it will depend on the thickness of the 105mm polarizer as to exactly how it works out. And getting a good multicoated circular polarizer that is also thin may be very dificult. The current B&W 105mm polarizers are not multicoated, and I am not sure how thick they are. The B&W I have I got used, and it is likely over 10 years old, so I don't know if current ones are the same thickness. I have no experience with any other 105mm polarizers yet. It would be nice if someone that has a Lee brand 105mm polarizer would measure how far it projects from in front of the face of the Lee 105mm threaded adapter. And by the way, 105mm polarizers are expensive, so you may want to just go for an 82mm polarizer, and forget combining things.

There is no question that a polarizer on a wide angle lens can result in big brightness gradients from one side of the image to the other, but I still find many uses for a polarizer on a wide angle lens. A polarizer does a lot for the color saturation of trees and many rock surfaces, depending on the lighting. I find my self wanting one on and adjusted properly for much of what I shoot in the Southwest. The need to combine it with a graduated neutral densitiy filter is much less often, but occasionally it could be usefull. Note that if you get a 105mm threaded adapter and put it on the front of your Lee holder, the adapter by its self causes no problems with vignetting, so it could stay on all the time with a single filter slot behind it, and you could add a 105mm polarizer when you wanted the combination.



Feb 28, 2010 at 01:21 PM
Ben Horne
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


I've owned both holders, and the Lee is a better design. With the Cokin, you could potentially scratch your grads if you're not careful. The plastic pins protrude a little bit. The Lee holder is a far more elegant solution.


Mar 01, 2010 at 01:55 PM
klam
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


Thanks for all the advice guys. Received my Lee filter system today. With the 82mm wide angle adapter I am able shoot wide open at 16mm without vignetting on my full frame. Beautiful.

I got some Hitech GND and ND filters to go along with it (as the store was sold out of the Lee ones). Is it normal for these resin-type filters to scratch where they contact the filter holder just from normal use? I've inserted the filters a few times only and there's already noticeable scratches along the sliding path, not that it affects the image optically but just noticed how fragile these are.



Mar 13, 2010 at 11:06 AM
sjms
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


yes there will be edge scratching. it plastic against plastic. it has no effect as none of that area is in the visual range. as to fragility, its all relative to the user and the care one gives. i backpack with mine. those nice glass ones are $$$.$$ and of you drop them you will cry the big tears.


Mar 13, 2010 at 11:14 AM
henrylw
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Lee/Cokin Z filter holder with 16-35II 82mm


I ran into this thread while googling Lee vs Cokin holder comparisons. I'd like to contribute my two cents based on what I've been using for the past 2 years. I use a Cokin Z-Pro holder, with some adaptions to factory default configurations. A picture is more than a thousand words, here below is my configuration:

77mm adapter is on the filter side of the holder instead of factory default side:
http://www.pbase.com/image/117051983.jpg


Cokin Z164 CPL is inserted in the SAME slot as the adapter: (Yes you can still turn it easily)
http://www.pbase.com/image/117051993.jpg


Here is how it looks like after inserted the drop-in CPL. The CPL uses first slot but it protrudes to second slot leaving only the 3rd slot available:
http://www.pbase.com/image/117051990.jpg


From this angle, you can see how lens adapter and CPL share the same first slot:
http://www.pbase.com/image/117051987.jpg


With Singh-Ray 3 stop hard ND grad inserted into the 3rd slot:
http://www.pbase.com/image/117051985.jpg


How it performs?

Absolutely no vignetting on 17-40mm at 17mm. (with CPL + one GND on a Canon 5D)

I can screw on a hoya 3 stop solid ND on the lens and then screw on the holder with GND/CPL, with very little vignetting. I can even screw on a 9 stop solid ND with some vignetting (up to 21mm).

To turn the CPL, you push up the grad a little bit and turn it from below.

When I need to use two ND grads, I hand hold the second one in front of the holder. You can see I reversed the screws so they are not protruding from the front.





Jun 18, 2010 at 12:45 PM
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