I would like to get a neutral density filter. My biggest lens I would use is 82mm so I expect that would be the best size to get (pricey). I have read about the Singh Ray 82mm Vari ND filter and I also read about a "fader" filter along the same lines which is less $$$ (and also has a filter size of 86mm so as to lessen vignetting?). Of course, a simple 3 stop ND filter might do the trick, but it would be nice to have some flexibility if it does not break the bank. Any suggestions? Lenses used would likely not be wider than 21mm.
How slow do you wanna make it? 3 stops is a good typical amount for graduated ND, either soft or hard horizon. If you really want to slow it down though, a 10 stop ND will take 1/60 to 15 seconds.
Don't know that I need a graduated variety for this purpose, or am I just displaying my ignorance? A filter that combined a polarizer with ND would also be fine and likely helpful.
The Singh Ray Vari-N-Duo is the ticket. Sort of. It gives you up to 8 stops of ND (which you will need) plus polarizer and it is the polarizer is that takes it to the next level. Besides being expensive, here's the problem. It only comes as a 77mm and even in the thin mount will vignette badly up to about 35 mm on a 24-105. I've been told that the same is true on a Nikon 24-70.
The loss of the wide-end is a pretty big deal but I love waterfalls and came up with a solution that works very well. I bought a Zuiko 24mm F2.8 with its 49mm threads and a 49-77 step-up ring. Works like a champ!
honestly, for most situations, the BW110 is too much. you want something in perhaps 3-6 stop range. just get 1 filter in the 4-5 stop range and slap on a polarizer if you need more. I personally wouldn't spend the $$$ on the VariND but that's just me.
Luvwine, we are crossing paths frequently!
I have struggled with this a bit too as I have the 24 TSE II and Zeiss 21 which are both 82mm filter threads. However if you look at the Singh Ray variable ND specs, it is 82mm, but it wasn't meant to be used on a WA 82mm lens as it is too deep at 14mm. Its large diameter so it won't vignette on a 77mm lens. I tried to simulate this filter depth and on a FF, the 14mm depth will probably vignette quite a bit on those two lenses.
There simply are no other ND filters that are really wide (82mm) and >4 stops that I could find. My solution was to purchase two 4 stop Hitechs with the Cokin Z size holder and an 82 mm adapter. If I wanted 10 stops I could use a CP 82mm behind the Cokin as the Z holder is pretty wide (4" or 100mm) and doesn't seem to vignette. I guess eventually I will move over my GND from the P size to the Z size.
In this thread the Light Craft Workshop Fader ND filter is claimed to be made by faderfilter.com
Here is an example from a current thread of what happens when you dial in the extreme dark (9 stops?) position, not so pretty.
Actually, seems like the user may have used the scale beyond the markings on the filter but he is going to retry and post. I have not bought anything yet so will reserve judgment. Thanks for pointing that out tho. Still confused as to what to buy.
my Vari-ND Duo has never blocked as much as 5 stops of light, let alone 8 like the original Vari-ND. at higher densities, it has uneven polarization even if the density is even. i've done enough testing to know. shooting water without a polarizer compromises image quality too much because you don't get enough reflection control. i barely use mine, prefering to use 3 different B+W solid ND filters stacked with a CPL. together, they cost about the same as the Vari-ND Duo and get much better results. the vignetting issues are completely lens dependent. you have to find out from someone whether the Vari-ND Duo will vignette or not because they have used it on the same lens.
Herb...
Hrow wrote:
The Singh Ray Vari-N-Duo is the ticket. Sort of. It gives you up to 8 stops of ND (which you will need) plus polarizer and it is the polarizer is that takes it to the next level. Besides being expensive, here's the problem. It only comes as a 77mm and even in the thin mount will vignette badly up to about 35 mm on a 24-105. I've been told that the same is true on a Nikon 24-70.
Singh-Ray custom makes screw mount solid ND filters and if you are willing to pay enough, you can get one made for you past 5 stop. Heliopan makes 82mm solid NDs >4 stops as well but you have to order direct from them. at least they are normal stock items.
Herb...
Mike K wrote:
There simply are no other ND filters that are really wide (82mm) and >4 stops that I could find. My solution was to purchase two 4 stop Hitechs with the Cokin Z size holder and an 82 mm adapter. If I wanted 10 stops I could use a CP 82mm behind the Cokin as the Z holder is pretty wide (4" or 100mm) and doesn't seem to vignette. I guess eventually I will move over my GND from the P size to the Z size.
If you get just the filter only in either Z-Pro or X-Pro size from Cokin then just a simple piece of paper "masking" tape will do the job of the Filter Holder without leaving marks or residue on any surfaces. It works.
I use a slim CPL and hold my Lee .9 hard graduated in front of the lens. It's a 4x6 filter so it easily covers my 77mm with the ND portion of the filter. It works well and the graduated is very useful for all types of landscapes.
I do that too with a 82mm CPL. A Cokin P-sized GND will actually cover the frame of a Zeiss 21 if you take off the lens hood. However most shots with a 4-10 stop ND (not GND) will be a very long shutter speed and I did not want to hand hold the filters nor touch the camera and did not want to stack filters or it will vignette.
Mike K
Someone please tell me if I'm wrong - it's my understanding that a polarizer must be exposed to the light for full polarizing efficiency. The Lee filter system offers a 105mm add-on filter ring mount to place a polarizer in front of the 4x6 GND's.
This is something that I've been wondering about. Cokin do a CP which fits into a 100mm Z-pro filter holder (should fit the Lee holder as well) so it can go in front of an ND, it's pricey though.
On a 17-40 a "slim" 77mm Vari-ND will vignette out just short of 24mm and around 28mm on a 24-105mm. It will be a few mm more for the non-slim - plus the CP. You may not need the CP that often and it's a little cumbersome that both filters have a turning ring.
