Is the Canon xxD line finished? - FM Forums

Register · Search · Software · Join Upload & Sell · Hosting

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

FM Forum Rules
Canon SLRs, primes, and zooms lenses reviews

FM Forums \| Canon-mount SLRs \| Join Upload & Sell	Search Used
1 2 3 4 5 6 end

Archive 2010 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

Dudewithoutape
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #1 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

cineski - I just wanted to clarify myself, I never meant the 3D to be a crop framed camera. I personally feel that we'll be seeing a 60D before a 3D, the only way a 3D would come out before a 60D is if it is in fact the 60D incarnate.

I think an issue everyone is wrongfully considering is that Canon has so many crop bodies out and Canon shouldn't make another, ala 60D. Reading over jorkata and CanonGarcon's comments, do you really think there are 5 rebels or going to be over 20 different models? There are 3 Rebels, the XS, T1i, and T2i. Thats all that Canon is selling new, the rest are old stock now (XSi, XTi, XT, etc). Even if you find one new, Canon isn't actually producing and meaning to sell theses new anymore. You guys are counting each camera in the series as a different actual camera, like the car analogy, counting a Camry for each of the years its been out because they perform slightly differently and are of different sizes, trims, etc. Saying Canon is currently selling 5 Rebels is like saying Toyota is selling 20 Camry models (1/year). The XXD and the XXXD lines are like the Camry and Corolla lines. The T2i is the Rebel of 2010 and thats it, there will be a XXD of 2010 as well.

Also, while it is unconfirmed, it seems a Canon technician has already hinted at the 60D coming out soon from the link in page 2.

Feb 10, 2010 at 06:11 AM

n0b0
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #2 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

Dawei Ye wrote:
Size issue is interesting, at one stage mobile/cell phones looked like they were getting smaller and smaller, and the tiny phones became fashionable

Now we have a reversal in direction back towards the huge brick like monstrosities of old (e.g. Iphone, Blackberries etc)

Not really a reversal I think. It's just that mobile phone development has taken a different direction. The size increase is due to the fact that mobile phones are becoming multi media devices as well as a web browser. What do they call it these days? Smart phones?

... and thus a $1200 price would be easily achievable.

I really don't see the 60D selling at $1200. Even the 40D without all the new bells and whistles were announced at $1300.

Feb 10, 2010 at 08:23 AM

David Collomb
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #3 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

Voted NO as

I was feeling xxxD was too small, slow frame/s and the grip not comfortable
I couldn't afford a 7D
So I am glad the xxD exists

From a spec point of view, I understand your question, but from a marketing point of view, canon is right, there is a market for xxD IMHO

Feb 10, 2010 at 10:46 AM

nikt
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #4 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

The problem isn't that the 60D has no place, it's that the 550D is way over spec'd for the prospective market. They should have made a simplier camera for the folks that want a small compact SLR.

There are plenty of mums and dads that DON"T want to become National Geographic photographers. They just want some nice pictures of their kids growing up, playing sport, having birthdays with an easy-to us-camera.

(NO, they SHOULDN'T just go buy a point-and-shoot)

The Canon line up is so confusing as to be a problem for Canon. No-one is steering the ship at head office. In fact, that's the reason for this thread, no-one can seem to work out what the hell is going on.

This is one reason why the Nikon D3000/5000 is a great hit for the company.

It's a simply camera. Need more, get a D90.

If Canon lose the 60D (they won't by the way), that's a massive hole in the $$$ line up.

Man, makes me want to slap someone at Canon.

Feb 10, 2010 at 11:04 AM

n0b0
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #5 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

David Collomb wrote:
Voted NO as

I was feeling xxxD was too small, slow frame/s and the grip not comfortable
I couldn't afford a 7D
So I am glad the xxD exists

From a spec point of view, I understand your question, but from a marketing point of view, canon is right, there is a market for xxD IMHO

There's always a market for something but the question is, would it be big enough to be profitable? Most people would look at the 550D/7D specs and price, compare them to the x0D and IMHO, either 550D or 7D would come on top in most cases.

nikt wrote:
The problem isn't that the 60D has no place, it's that the 550D is way over spec'd for the prospective market. They should have made a simplier camera for the folks that want a small compact SLR.

But Canon DOES have one, it's called the 1000D or Rebel XS.

Feb 10, 2010 at 12:09 PM

cineski
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.5 #6 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

I would venture to say that every dad wants to be a National Geographic photographer. Even people with no camera want this

Canon was smart to over spec the T2i to entice the $600 spenders to spend another $300. While Canon considers it's own lineup when spec'ing and pricing, they also pay attention to Nikon and Sony. I doubt those specs cost anywhere near the cost of upgrading from the rebel line.

nikt wrote:
The problem isn't that the 60D has no place, it's that the 550D is way over spec'd for the prospective market. They should have made a simplier camera for the folks that want a small compact SLR.

There are plenty of mums and dads that DON"T want to become National Geographic photographers. They just want some nice pictures of their kids growing up, playing sport, having birthdays with an easy-to us-camera.

(NO, they SHOULDN'T just go buy a point-and-shoot)

The Canon line up is so confusing as to be a problem for Canon. No-one is steering the ship at head office. In fact, that's the reason for this thread, no-one can seem to work out what the hell is going on.

This is one reason why the Nikon D3000/5000 is a great hit for the company.

It's a simply camera. Need more, get a D90.

If Canon lose the 60D (they won't by the way), that's a massive hole in the $$$ line up.

Man, makes me want to slap someone at Canon.

Edited on Feb 10, 2010 at 04:35 PM · View previous versions

Feb 10, 2010 at 04:16 PM

cineski
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.5 #7 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

There's a definite gap that could be filled, but Canon may just say forget it for now, there's the 50d, and if they want more, it'll be $1000 extra for the 7d. In fact, it may do financially well for Canon to keep that gap under spec'd. May squeeze that extra grand out of the consumer. The only thing that would be added to the 60d over the T2i is build quality and a dial. The issue is, is it worth it to Canon to keep up with so many model updates in this economy? So many companies are simplifying, why wouldn't Canon? For people on the fence about the 7D, the T2i really isn't that much of a step down from a consumer standpoint. Anyway, just playing devils advocate.

Also, considering the last FF camera to be released was a year and a half ago, and that there have been, what, 5 croppers announced since the last FF? I'd say a FF is well overdue.

Dudewithoutape wrote:
cineski - I just wanted to clarify myself, I never meant the 3D to be a crop framed camera. I personally feel that we'll be seeing a 60D before a 3D, the only way a 3D would come out before a 60D is if it is in fact the 60D incarnate.

I think an issue everyone is wrongfully considering is that Canon has so many crop bodies out and Canon shouldn't make another, ala 60D. Reading over jorkata and CanonGarcon's comments, do you really think there are 5 rebels or going to be over 20 different models? There are 3 Rebels, the XS, T1i, and T2i. Thats all that Canon is selling new, the rest are old stock now (XSi, XTi, XT, etc). Even if you find one new, Canon isn't actually producing and meaning to sell theses new anymore. You guys are counting each camera in the series as a different actual camera, like the car analogy, counting a Camry for each of the years its been out because they perform slightly differently and are of different sizes, trims, etc. Saying Canon is currently selling 5 Rebels is like saying Toyota is selling 20 Camry models (1/year). The XXD and the XXXD lines are like the Camry and Corolla lines. The T2i is the Rebel of 2010 and thats it, there will be a XXD of 2010 as well.

Also, while it is unconfirmed, it seems a Canon technician has already hinted at the 60D coming out soon from the link in page 2.

Feb 10, 2010 at 04:29 PM

Dudewithoutape
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #8 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

cineski wrote:
There's a definite gap that could be filled, but Canon may just say forget it for now, there's the 50d, and if they want more, it'll be $1000 extra for the 7d. In fact, it may do financially well for Canon to keep that gap under spec'd. May squeeze that extra grand out of the consumer. The only thing that would be added to the 60d over the T2i is build quality and a dial. The issue is, is it worth it to Canon to keep up with so many model updates in this economy? So many companies are simplifying, why wouldn't Canon? For people on the fence about the 7D, the T2i really isn't that much of a step down from a consumer standpoint. Anyway, just playing devils advocate.

Also, considering the last FF camera to be released was a year and a half ago, and that there have been, what, 5 croppers announced since the last FF? I'd say a FF is well overdue.

Your point is valid, they may not produce a 60D. However, in this economy, do they really want to risk it with that $1000 gap. Are they sure people wont buy the other brands? One of the very things people wont buy Rebels is the ergonomics. This is where Nikon and the D70, D80, and D90 are so loved. Assume a competitor has a camera in that range ($800-1700) that has better capabilities than the T2i but under the 7D, and then people looking to spend in that range would probably not buy Canon then, right? I feel in this day and age, all the brands are getting to be very good, it all comes down to price. Not having a camera in a certain price range only limits the profits of a manufacturer.

Feb 10, 2010 at 09:00 PM

jimmy462
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #9 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

M Vers wrote:
Marcel VanEerd wrote:
Why I think the bodies will become smaller: because they CAN make it smaller.

But a lot of people don't want smaller, and if they do there are other options. The larger xxD body is one of the reasons people choose it over xxxD bodies. Ergonomics plays an enormous role.

Hi Matt, etal,

I'll have to disagree with you on the size issue...

If Canon were to offer a Rebel-sized camera with the identical performance, feature set and ergonomics of a 7D (or 5D2 for that matter), I think it would be a runaway best-seller. I say this because of the camera preferences of both my girlfriend and my adult daughter. My girlfriend is put off by the size and weight of all of my DSLRs (300D, 30D, 5D2) and will only shoot with the S5 IS or (egads!) the ZS3 i got her. My daughter received a 20D for her wedding and that camera became her husband's to use as she ended up getting herself an SX200 IS and prefers to borrow a friend's Rebel for her "serious" shooting. Both of them wish they could capture the nice clean images at ISO 400 and above that come out of my DSLRs with a camera that fit them better.

It's an ergonomics issue, alright. Today's DSLRs are massive and heavy compared to film SLRs (of which they were both avid users). The Olympus OM-1 with a 50mm f/1.8 (a typical setup the girls would shoot with) weighed less than any of the digital bodies-only I mentioned, and delivered full-frame images and a large, bright viewfinder! Now, in all fairness, the new 550D does come in being smaller and weighing less that my older 300D, and I'm hopeful that when I take my daughter down to B&H camera shopping that this camera fills the bill for her so she can get back to her passion of doing more creative photography! My girlfriend is taking a wait-see approach.

Quite simply, today's DSLR market does not cater too broadly to folks of a more diminutive stature. And that's unfortunate, IMHO, both for the consumers who would love to have a professional "me-sized" camera, and for the manufacturers who have failed to capitalize on an eagerly-waiting market.

My two-cents worth...

Peace,
Jimmy G

Feb 11, 2010 at 01:04 AM

M Vers
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #10 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

jimmy462 wrote:
Hi Matt, etal,

I'll have to disagree with you on the size issue...

If Canon were to offer a Rebel-sized camera with the identical performance, feature set and ergonomics of a 7D (or 5D2 for that matter), I think it would be a runaway best-seller.

Hey, Jimmy. Of course there are people out there looking for smaller, more feature packed alternatives. The problem is not only haven't they released such a body, but as mentioned by several others in this thread the xxxD body size is just too small and uncomfortable for a lot of people. There simply is no 'meat' to xxxD bodies for those with average sized hands. Part of the 7D's appealing ergonomics is its size, not only its button/wheel layout--it is very comfortable in hand, even more so with the battery grip. The bigger question is where does the majority stand? As a large corporation like Canon you can't always please everyone, instead you need to focus on the average consumer to which the product is marketed. Not only that but cramming a 7D's innards into an xxxD sized body may present issues as far as the size of certain parts and circuitry being able to actually fit and function properly. I'm no engineer but I'd think it would be a bit more difficult, thus more expensive, to do so. Those knowledgeable in this department feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Feb 11, 2010 at 01:40 AM

Strid3r
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #11 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

To Jimmy's point.

I actually like the smaller size of the Rebels, but am obligated to go to a larger camera

because I would like better AF and a better view finder. I don't need the wheel, nor do I need the extra 50% of the weight. Small is a great thing when traveling, so I'm really torn as to how much I want the better AF and Viewfinder - the new T2i is really making me reconsider. The size is just so nice.

Oh, and I'm a big person with big hands, so the hands argument is lost on me.

Mike

Feb 11, 2010 at 01:48 AM

M Vers
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #12 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

Strid3r wrote:
Oh, and I'm a big person with big hands, so the hands argument is lost on me.

How long, on average, would you say you shoot with your camera? For me, with what I'd consider average sized hands, shooting with a body the size of a rebel all day would make my hands cramp after a while--It's just too small to use comfortably over long periods of time. When I traded my XT for a 5D one of the largest benefits, ergonomically speaking, was the size, and it got better when I added a grip. YMMV of course.

Feb 11, 2010 at 01:59 AM

nikt
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #13 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

n0b0 wrote:

nikt wrote:
The problem isn't that the 60D has no place, it's that the 550D is way over spec'd for the prospective market. They should have made a simplier camera for the folks that want a small compact SLR.

But Canon DOES have one, it's called the 1000D or Rebel XS.

The 1000D is the worst camera Canon have. It's a bit of junk and was only released as a price point to compete with Olympus, Nikon and Sony. It has the old AF, the old crap metering.

What they SHOULD have done, was remove some of the buttons and simplfied the operation of the camera (not necessarily simply removing features) .

The 450D is so far ahead of the 1000D it's not funny.

Feb 11, 2010 at 02:07 AM

omarlyn
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.5 #14 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

Strid3r wrote:
Oh, and I'm a big person with big hands, so the hands argument is lost on me.

M Vers wrote:
How long, on average, would you say you shoot with your camera? For me, with what I'd consider average sized hands, shooting with a body the size of a rebel all day would make my hands cramp after a while. For me, its just too small to use comfortably over long periods of time. When I traded my XT for a 5D one of the largest benefits, ergonomically speaking, was the size, and it got better when I added a grip. YMMV of course.

Ergonomics can be very subjective for different indivisuals...I myself have small hands, yet (like M Vers) I find the Rebel series uncomfortable for my hands...they completely cramp up. By contrast, the xxD/5D/7D are very comfortable and even more so with the added grip. My friend, who is larger framed than me (with comparatively larger hands) can not stand the added grips.

Hence there is a legitimate market for differerent sized cameras...(and not just in terms of high-end/low-end features)

My two-cents,

Omar

Feb 11, 2010 at 02:09 AM

Strid3r
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #15 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

omarlyn wrote:
Strid3r wrote:
Oh, and I'm a big person with big hands, so the hands argument is lost on me.

M Vers wrote:
How long, on average, would you say you shoot with your camera? For me, with what I'd consider average sized hands, shooting with a body the size of a rebel all day would make my hands cramp after a while. For me, its just too small to use comfortably over long periods of time. When I traded my XT for a 5D one of the largest benefits, ergonomically speaking, was the size, and it got better when I added a grip. YMMV of course.

Ergonomics can be very subjective for different indivisuals...I myself have small hands, yet (like M Vers) I find the Rebel series uncomfortable for my hands...they completely cramp up. By contrast, the xxD/5D/7D are very comfortable and even more so with the added grip. My friend, who is larger framed than me (with comparatively larger hands) can not stand the added grips.

Hence there is a legitimate market for differerent sized cameras...(and not just in terms of high-end/low-end features)

My two-cents,

Omar

Exactly Omar, it's entirely subjective. Some people love the size of the XDs, which is obscene to me, but they wouldn't have anything else.

Feb 11, 2010 at 04:15 AM

Pixel Perfect
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.5 #16 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

The only thing that pisses me off about the Rebel series is after 6 generations they still haven't redesigned the poor grip. A Nikon D3000 feels much nicer in the hand as does my 6 yo Fuji S7000 which is a P&S. It would only take a decent grip and a fractional increase in size to expand it's potential market considerably. I think it's s ensational looking camera, one of the nicest looking. Oh and while they are at it just give it a QCD like the bigger cameras, I'll pay the extra 50c it costs to add one.

Feb 11, 2010 at 04:26 AM

Dudewithoutape
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #17 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

nikt wrote:
n0b0 wrote:

nikt wrote:
The problem isn't that the 60D has no place, it's that the 550D is way over spec'd for the prospective market. They should have made a simplier camera for the folks that want a small compact SLR.

But Canon DOES have one, it's called the 1000D or Rebel XS.

The 1000D is the worst camera Canon have. It's a bit of junk and was only released as a price point to compete with Olympus, Nikon and Sony. It has the old AF, the old crap metering.

What they SHOULD have done, was remove some of the buttons and simplfied the operation of the camera (not necessarily simply removing features) .

The 450D is so far ahead of the 1000D it's not funny.

I'll admit the AF wasn't the best, but after having been an owner for about a year, I do have some nice things to say about it. The XS does provide some very nice picture quality for the price. When it was released, it had the newest Canon processor. It's noise ratings were very similar to the XSi (450D). It's pictures were as sharp as, and reviewed by some to be slightly sharper than XSI, thanks to the lower amount of pixels (10MP vs 12MP). It was the cheapest Canon to offer LiveView. As its job as an intro camera goes, I think it played that role perfectly. Is it worse compared to the XSi, certainly. Was it still better than the original Rebel (300D), XT (350D), and comparable to the XTi (400D), yes.

Feb 11, 2010 at 06:41 AM

David Baldwin
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.5 #18 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

If there is no 60D then I am in a difficult position. I need a quality backup for my 5D2, with similar ergonomics and menu structure etc. I was planning to get a 60D as backup because, although I don't like crop much, at that price I would be getting the backup I need. Now apparently I am told I should buy the 7D. Well, here in the UK the price difference between the 7D and 5D2 bodies isn't proportionally that high. If Canon tell me I must cough up for the 7D I would be so tempted to just save a bit longer, and get a second 5D2.

So if the xxD line ends it will have the effect for me at least, of ending serious use of the crop sensor. If there is no 60D then I suspect some photographers will be effectively asked to choose between crop and FF. Not all, because I appreciate many will love the 7D autofocus and other features, but there will be a dividing effect if there is no 60D to provide an affordable semi-pro cropper.

Unless the 7D drops to xxD price levels of course, but I doubt that.

Feb 11, 2010 at 09:09 AM

nikt
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #19 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

Dudewithoutape wrote:
nikt wrote:

The 450D is so far ahead of the 1000D it's not funny.

I'll admit the AF wasn't the best, but after having been an owner for about a year, I do have some nice things to say about it. The XS does provide some very nice picture quality for the price. When it was released, it had the newest Canon processor. It's noise ratings were very similar to the XSi (450D). It's pictures were as sharp as, and reviewed by some to be slightly sharper than XSI, thanks to the lower amount of pixels (10MP vs 12MP). It was the cheapest Canon to offer LiveView. As its job as an intro camera goes, I think it played that role perfectly. Is it worse compared to the XSi, certainly. Was it still better than the original Rebel (300D), XT (350D), and comparable to the XTi (400D), yes.

That's mostly correct except the internals are from the 400D. It's never image quality I'm talking about. I've got some nice shots out of it as well, even with the kit lenses.

I was using the 1000D the yesterday (with kit lenses), and we got 5 very slightly differently metered shots, and 5 ever so slightly differently focused images, it made everyone just think it was crazy.

The same test from the 450D simply gave much better results. Not perfect, but it was the same kit lens. It has the old technology from those cameras you mentioned. It may have improved in some areas, but when you then use the 450D, you can really tell the difference.

The 1000D is just a camera you really have to be on top of, and considering the target audience, it shouldn't be that way.

Hopefully, Canon will "re-introduce" the 450D as the 1000D's replacement in May. Call it whatever name they will.

Feb 11, 2010 at 11:29 AM

n0b0
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.5 #20 · Is the Canon xxD line finished?

nikt wrote:
n0b0 wrote:

nikt wrote:
The problem isn't that the 60D has no place, it's that the 550D is way over spec'd for the prospective market. They should have made a simplier camera for the folks that want a small compact SLR.

But Canon DOES have one, it's called the 1000D or Rebel XS.

The 1000D is the worst camera Canon have. It's a bit of junk and was only released as a price point to compete with Olympus, Nikon and Sony. It has the old AF, the old crap metering.

What they SHOULD have done, was remove some of the buttons and simplfied the operation of the camera (not necessarily simply removing features) .

The 450D is so far ahead of the 1000D it's not funny.

Well it seems like the Rebel has been shifted up market since they changed the initial from X to T.

When the 1000D was introduced, it was the cheapest SLR available in the market aimed mainly at P&S owners who wanted to get their feet wet with DSLR but didn't want to spend the big bucks, ie. the role that used to belong to the x00D cameras.

You may or may not like it but the 1000D still gives you better IQ than P&S and that's all it was meant to be. Maybe the 2000D is next to be announced. Hopefully with an EF-S 30mm f/1.4 prime and 15-55IS.

If it really is the 2000D being announced next, chances are the x0D line is finished.

Feb 11, 2010 at 12:48 PM

1 2 3 4 5 6 end
FM Forums \| Canon-mount SLRs \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 4 5 6 end