1D4 vs D3s by Juza

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Archive 2010 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

Geert Koning
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p.1 #1 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

Canon 1D Mark IV (vs Nikon D3s)

http://www.juzaphoto.com/eng/articles/canon_1d_mark4_review_comparisons.htm

Feb 06, 2010 at 10:10 AM

AaronNegro
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p.1 #2 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

I actually feel the 1D Mark IV is better than expected. I prefer to have some noise with detail and use NR in PP than losing detail in camera.

Feb 06, 2010 at 10:48 AM

mttran
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p.1 #3 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

AaronNegro wrote:
I prefer to have some noise with detail and use NR in PP than losing detail in camera.

+1

Feb 06, 2010 at 11:10 AM

keithreeder
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p.1 #4 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

Yep, you can't PP detail back that wasn't there in the first place...

Feb 06, 2010 at 11:51 AM

Orestis.Ch
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p.1 #5 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

i think the "winner" in Juza's test is 1Ds3

seems to me like the body i'd choose among these choosing just the output

Feb 06, 2010 at 12:18 PM

Tom RC
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p.1 #6 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

Isn't it great to have GREAT options from both companies. Remember the D2H / D2X

For a while Canon had no reason to push the envelope. Now both companies know the standards are high and will continue to push the bar which benefits us all!!!!

Feb 06, 2010 at 12:45 PM

evertdoorn
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p.1 #7 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

I'll take whatever camera takes my lenses!

Feb 06, 2010 at 01:29 PM

n0b0
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p.1 #8 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

I seem to notice some repeating pattern (moire?) on the right side of the feather from the D3s samples.

Feb 06, 2010 at 01:42 PM

Dawei Ye
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p.1 #9 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

I can't believe the Nikon is so much cleaner!!!

oh wait...I forgot about the other factors that mitigate this superiority - Nikon strong on chip NR, the 12MP resolution advantage when comparing at 100%, needing higher ISO to compensate for having to use f/2.8 lenses instead of decent fast primes

Feb 06, 2010 at 02:22 PM

Dawei Ye
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p.1 #10 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

By the way TDP is also out:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-1D-Mark-IV-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx

Feb 06, 2010 at 02:23 PM

keithreeder
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p.1 #11 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

Orestis.Ch wrote:
i think the "winner" in Juza's test is 1Ds3

Maybe, but he also says this:

In 2007, I bought the Canon 1DsIII as my main camera body, and I have used it with satisfaction for two year. Now, I have "replaced" it with the 7D: the new Canon SLR offers many advantages in comparison with the older flagship, even though in some aspect the 1DsIII is still the best (and this is the reason I won't sell it).

And:

Overall, the Canon 7D is an impressive camera for its price. It is better than any previous xxD camera (40D, 50D), and in many aspects it is better than more expensive cameras as the 5DII and 1DsIII (even though for some kinds of photography, as landscapes, I still prefer the FF cameras). It combines good image quality with great speed, fantastic video, and a lot of useful features. Very recommended!

Feb 06, 2010 at 02:31 PM

Greg Schneider
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p.1 #12 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

I'm not sure why he thinks Canon promised a 4 stop improvement. They clearly said 1 stop in RAW, up to 2 in JPEG.

Feb 06, 2010 at 02:39 PM

davenfl
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p.1 #13 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

Well the clear winner here is everyone. Each of those camera's is about as good as it get's for it's intended purpose and market. If we talk real winners, well I think the 7D for all it can do is a bargain and the D3s is outstanding for high ISO work. Would I replace my 1D3's right now with 1D4's, no, not unless they were lost, stolen, or broke. My disappointment with the 1D4 is not that it isn't a great camera, it is quite good. Nope my disappointment is that it doesn't represent a $1000 upgrade to the list price of the 1D3 or any marked advantage to me personally at street prices (used) approaching a $3000 per unit difference. Had Canon brought the body to market at the 1D3 price or even slightly higher then OK, but as it is for my purposes it doesn't represent real business value. Nor do the images I personally produced with a Canon test body represent any real upgrade to myself or my customers that translates into hard cold cash, therefore I can wait. Probably will buy another 7D though while waiting.

Dave

Feb 06, 2010 at 03:02 PM

JimN
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p.1 #14 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

I upgraded from the 1D3 to the 1D4 and my experience in real world situations is that there is about .5 stops improvement in the 1D4. To me the best improvement on the 1D4 is the larger image size. The LCD is also a major improvement and the added video is a bonus. I aquired a 7D to use as backup to the 1D4, but I like the 1D3 better, so I may keep the 1D3 and sell the 7D.

Feb 06, 2010 at 03:34 PM

Orestis.Ch
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p.1 #15 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

keithreeder wrote:
Orestis.Ch wrote:
i think the "winner" in Juza's test is 1Ds3

Maybe, but he also says this:

In 2007, I bought the Canon 1DsIII as my main camera body, and I have used it with satisfaction for two year. Now, I have "replaced" it with the 7D: the new Canon SLR offers many advantages in comparison with the older flagship, even though in some aspect the 1DsIII is still the best (and this is the reason I won't sell it).

And:

Overall, the Canon 7D is an impressive camera for its price. It is better than any previous xxD camera (40D, 50D), and in many aspects it is better than more expensive cameras as the 5DII and 1DsIII (even though for some kinds of photography, as landscapes, I still prefer the FF cameras). It combines good image quality with great speed, fantastic video, and a lot of useful features. Very recommended!

Sure.. i believe the 7D is simply amazing too for its price.
But in IQ , from what i've seen so far it can't keep up with 5DII and 1Ds3, especially in iso above 1600.

If the 1Ds4 doesn't have something really special in terms of IQ, i think the 1Ds3 could be considered one of the best all around cameras for the next couple of years.

Feb 06, 2010 at 05:30 PM

keithreeder
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p.1 #16 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

The 1dS Mk III is a gloriously fine camera, to be sure.

Feb 06, 2010 at 05:39 PM

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p.1 #17 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

What many of us want, and will never get due to Canon "Feature Segmenting," is 18-22 Mp in a modern FF sensor-ed 1D series body. 60% of FF (the APC H sensor). This unnecessary crippling of sensor size (unless you do BIF or certain Sports shooting).

I really have no sympathy for claims that Canon (who even makes their own equipment to make their own sensors after so many years) costs for FF sensors are too expensive.

Feb 06, 2010 at 05:47 PM

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p.1 #18 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

I am surprised that, as a nature photographer, Juza says the 7D is his "main" camera. I thought the 1D4 had superior AF. I didn't see a good comparison of this feature in the review.

I currently use both the 5D and 50D, and find both lacking in this regard. Which is why I am considering upgrading to the 1D4.

Feb 06, 2010 at 05:48 PM

thedigitalbean
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p.1 #19 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

Can't say that I agree with Juza's observations. Lets for the moment assume we are talking about reach limited shooting where comparing 100% crops are valid. Even then I don't see the 1D4 being better tan the 1Ds3 by a full stop (except perhaps at ISO 12800).

Look at 1Ds3 ISO 1600 vs. 1D4 ISO 3200 - to me the 1Ds3 looks cleaner, so I'd say its not a 1 stop advantage

Look at 1Ds3 ISO 3200 vs. 1D4 ISO 6400 - again, to my eyes I can't say that the 1D4 image is cleaner, so again I'd say its not a full stop advantage

So at 12800, yes the 1D4 has a 1 stop advantage, at ISO 6400 perhaps a 2/3 stop and at ISO 3200 I'd put it at 1/2 stop. At ISO 1600, less than 1/3 stop and they look equivalent to me at less than 1600.

Now, if we aren't reach limited then the advantage of physically larger sensor of the 1Ds3 will become apparent. My guess (and this is totally my guess) is that you can reduce the advantages mentioned above by about 1/3 stop.

So then I think we find ourselves in the same situation as when the 1D3 first came out. If you are reach limited, the 1D3 will produce the better file, but if you can fill your frame with your subject then the 1Ds2 holds its own for a lot of ISOs.

Based on this, my guess is that a ~32mp 1Ds4 will likely have the same per pixel noise levels as the current 1Ds3, which should translate to a ~1/2 stop improvement once you account for the resolution difference.

Now whats interesting in all this is that there are no surprises here. The improvements, sensor wise for the 1D4 is mostly in making the microlenses gapless along with some photo diode tweaks and perhaps some electronics tweaks to improve read noise. Hence, on a per pixel level, the noise improvements on the 1D4 vs. the 1Ds3 are about what I'd expect.

Feb 06, 2010 at 05:58 PM

Breitling65
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p.1 #20 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

I was waiting for mk IV and abilities of better crop at 16mpx, new autofocus and better ISO. Lots of time I do shot birds early/darkish mornings at ISO800 and higher. Better LCD, UDMA cards support is a plus. Other than this - I don't care about video, could Canon please take it away and provide me rebate for $1K?

.
I suppose to get my mk IV Monday by Fedex and it is very exciting moment, besides I sold my mk III but birds are waiting somewhere ....

I don't agree about 7D, I checked tons of samples on both and mk IV is literally 3 heads above this camera in any respect.

Feb 06, 2010 at 06:11 PM

keithreeder
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p.1 #21 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

Breitling65 wrote:
I don't agree about 7D, I checked tons of samples on both and mk IV is literally 3 heads above this camera in any respect.

When you're comfortable with your Mk IV, show me yours and I'll show you mine - from the 7D - and we'll see whether those three heads are really worth the huge price difference between the two cameras..!

Edited on Feb 06, 2010 at 06:28 PM · View previous versions

Feb 06, 2010 at 06:26 PM

kewlcanon
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p.1 #22 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

Game on....keithreeder vs Breitling65

Feb 06, 2010 at 06:27 PM

thedigitalbean
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p.1 #23 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

FWIW, I have talked to people who work with several copies of Canon bodies (starting with the 7D and 1D4) who have told me that they are seen pretty big variations in the read noise numbers from different bodies of the same camera. They were surprised and re-did their testing and the results came back the same. So joy, not only do we have to contend with variations in lens quality but also sensors now.

Feb 06, 2010 at 06:32 PM

Breitling65
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p.1 #24 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

keithreeder wrote:
Breitling65 wrote:
I don't agree about 7D, I checked tons of samples on both and mk IV is literally 3 heads above this camera in any respect.

When you're comfortable with your Mk IV, show me yours and I'll show you mine - from the 7D - and we'll see whether those three heads are really worth the huge price difference between the two cameras..!

You could check mine mk III shots in profile/link, I am sure mk IV will be not much worse

1D bodies are different league in everything, you will understand this by own one only. Price is price, not everything could be associated with money, Different product, different level, different everything...

Edited on Feb 06, 2010 at 08:44 PM · View previous versions

Feb 06, 2010 at 08:20 PM

Breitling65
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p.1 #25 · 1D4 vs D3s by Juza

kewlcanon wrote:
Game on....keithreeder vs Breitling65

no games today

Feb 06, 2010 at 08:28 PM


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