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Archive 2010 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?
  
 
stanj
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p.1 #1 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


Is anyone using the new SanDisk Extreme Pro cards (90MB/s, any denomination) in the 1D4? I would be interested to hear your performance numbers; I have my eyes particularly set on the 64GB variant, which I'd need for an upcoming job, but for performance analysis I'd settle for other denominations of this card.

Feb 03, 2010 at 05:52 AM
David Manning
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p.1 #2 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


I'm not using the Pro variant, just the Extreme version in 16GB. The transfer speeds in camera seem very fast. The buffer clears really quick too. YMMV.

David

Feb 03, 2010 at 06:41 AM
dolina
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p.1 #3 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


Wish Rob Galbraith would publish a CF benchmark on his site for both the 1D4 and 7D.

Feb 03, 2010 at 06:46 AM
rscheffler
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p.1 #4 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


I'm curious about this too, specifically if the 600X cards actually allow more frames than the normally spec'd 1DIV RAW buffer. I seem to recall someone here claimed so.

RG did write up a mini-review about the Sandisk, Transcend and PhotoFast cards. Looks like the PhotoFast 64GB 533X card isn't yet available from the US vendor...

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-10043-10255

Stan, one thing to consider is that performance may vary depending on card capacity. And it's typical that the higher capacity cards are somewhat slower, though based on RG's numbers in the above link the Sandisk cards in the 5DII are all very close.

Feb 03, 2010 at 09:12 AM
Ariel Bravy
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p.1 #5 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


Not to knock the thread OT, but if you need a high capacity card, does the 1D4 have the ability to write to one card and then switch over to another when the first one fills up? If so, you could effectively double your storage capacity for shoots that require it.

Feb 03, 2010 at 09:41 AM
citro
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p.1 #6 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


It does. Page 57 on 1D4 manual (pdf).

Auto switch media - Same as with the [Standard] setting, but if the card becomes full, the camera will automatically switch to the other card to record images.


Feb 03, 2010 at 10:45 AM
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p.1 #7 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


dolina wrote:
Wish Rob Galbraith would publish a CF benchmark on his site for both the 1D4 and 7D.


Some 7D numbers are posted here:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-10044-10297

Feb 03, 2010 at 10:57 AM
olearydj
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p.1 #8 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


I'm using 2 of the 16gb Extreme Pro cards. My very scientific evaluation - they are way fast. I haven't compared them to anything else just yet as I got the camera on Thursday and have been busy using it. I am not in the habit of running up the buffer on a regular basis, normally firing off strings of 3-5 shots, often several strings in quick succession. In about 16 hours of shooting I have never even come close to filling the buffer or otherwise waiting on the camera.

What kind of numbers would you like?

Feb 03, 2010 at 11:10 AM
goldscout
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p.1 #9 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


Same as above. I put a 32gb extreme pro in my 1dMk IV, but it's too soon to say more than it seems extremely fast and I've had no problems.

Feb 03, 2010 at 12:13 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #10 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


olearydj wrote:
I'm using 2 of the 16gb Extreme Pro cards. My very scientific evaluation - they are way fast. I haven't compared them to anything else just yet as I got the camera on Thursday and have been busy using it. I am not in the habit of running up the buffer on a regular basis, normally firing off strings of 3-5 shots, often several strings in quick succession. In about 16 hours of shooting I have never even come close to filling the buffer or otherwise waiting on the camera.

What kind of numbers would you like?


I'd personally like to know the following with the camera set to RAW only: 1) How many images can be recorded at 10 fps by holding down the shutter release until the camera stops due to a full buffer. 2) Time duration between the camera hitting the buffer limit and the red writing to card light turns off. 3) This test at ISO 400 & 3200 (with in-camera high ISO noise reduction turned off and the camera photographing something with a longish lens wide open, shutter speed of around 1/500 if possible, exposed correctly, not just black frames). 4) If time & patience permits, repeated at least once for RAW+JPEG-L quality setting 8.

TIA!

Ron

Feb 03, 2010 at 02:37 PM
Russ Isabella
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p.1 #11 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


Ron: Could you be more specific?

Seriously, that would be some great information to have.

Feb 03, 2010 at 03:05 PM
David Manning
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p.1 #12 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


In terms of that kind of speed, you really don't have many options. There may be a handful of other cards out there with that kind of speed, but what are the real world shooting advantages? One extra frame? Two? It'll be the last frames at the end of a very long burst. If those frames are that important, maybe you should've started your burst 1/10s later!

My $0.02.

David

Feb 03, 2010 at 03:12 PM
stanj
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p.1 #13 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


32067dlm wrote:
In terms of that kind of speed, you really don't have many options. There may be a handful of other cards out there with that kind of speed, but what are the real world shooting advantages? One extra frame? Two? It'll be the last frames at the end of a very long burst. If those frames are that important, maybe you should've started your burst 1/10s later!


Let that be my worry For this upcoming job I need a 64GB card, and they don't come in any other variations. Second, I am intending to use the card in the 1Ds4 once it comes out, which has a notoriously shallow buffer and hitting that buffer is not common but does happen; there, every little bit of help counts.

So, in short, I'd also be very interested how many frames at 10fps raw (only) the 1D4 gets onto a Pro card before it stutters. Experience shows that subject matter doesn't matter all that much, so just pointing it out the window would be perfectly sufficient. I assume that it would translate well to the 1Ds4, since the Ds models were always faster at writing than the D models of the same generation, with about 1/3 the buffer (in frame count).

Feb 03, 2010 at 03:42 PM
 



stanj
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p.1 #14 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


Ariel Bravy wrote:
Not to knock the thread OT, but if you need a high capacity card, does the 1D4 have the ability to write to one card and then switch over to another when the first one fills up? If so, you could effectively double your storage capacity for shoots that require it.


The 1D(s)3 and 1D2N could do that too. I already have two 32GB SD cards ready for this assignment (for two different 1Ds3's), but that won't be enough. I need 64GB. Besides, for future use in a 1Ds4, 64GB won't seem all that absurd (at least not to me).

Feb 03, 2010 at 03:45 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #15 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


For my applications it's related to shooting sports for a specific client that requires RAW files instead of JPEGs. The issue has been that through the evolution of the 1D series, the number of frames buffer capacity hasn't effectively increased much since the original 1D. The best so far has been the III with a maximum number of 30 images up to around ISO 400 or 500. The IV sits at 25, which is OK, but is slightly lower at high ISOs (as are all cameras).

Here's the issue with sports: One cannot predict the duration of certain action sequences. Say a running back has the ball and breaks an initial tackle that results in a cool shot, so you shoot that, then you shoot a nice running sequence, that turns out to be longer than usual, then he scores a TD, then there is the celebration with teammates, etc.. So do you take a chance and shoot the first half of the play, or do you hold back somewhat and wait to see what happens, thus missing some other images. For most plays this isn't an issue, but in every game there are at least a few extended plays that cause buffer issues and missed frames. @ 10 fps there's not much time until one hits the buffer on cameras previous to the IV, but with UDMA card support, it seems that one can stretch the buffer to a higher number than the officially rated number. It would be valuable for me to know just how much more performance a premium card like the Sandisk Extreme Pro will offer in this regard compared to less expensive 45 or 60 MB/s UDMA 5 cards.

I can't speak for Stan's needs... maybe he plans to shoot a 10fps 16MP motion picture?

Feb 03, 2010 at 03:52 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #16 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


Alot of times buffer should not be viewed as number of frames but time. If your shooting off at 10fps then you have less than 3 seconds buffer. Looking back at the specs it seems that its always been between 2 and 3 seconds buffer. from the 40D onwards (looking at the specs it seems the 7D has the shortest buffer at less than 2 seconds)

Can you back the Mk4 off a little bit to get 8ish FPS? that would increase the buffer time a fair bit as the 25 frames / 8fps is over 3 sec + added the extra time the camera has to write to a fast card

Feb 03, 2010 at 04:19 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #17 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


rscheffler wrote:


I can't speak for Stan's needs... maybe he plans to shoot a 10fps 16MP motion picture?


Looking at stans WWW and his previous posts I would think his needs would be to capture a once never to be repeated (probably even more so now the money has been cut) event comming up this year.
So a very long buffer is probably a BIG need . I guess waiting for the buffer to clear while a big roman candle goes off in front of him will not go down well

Feb 03, 2010 at 04:25 PM
stanj
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p.1 #18 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


rscheffler wrote:
I can't speak for Stan's needs... maybe he plans to shoot a 10fps 16MP motion picture?


Rather the opposite

Ian.Dobinson wrote:
Looking at stans WWW and his previous posts I would think his needs would be to capture a once never to be repeated (probably even more so now the money has been cut) event comming up this year.
So a very long buffer is probably a BIG need . I guess waiting for the buffer to clear while a big roman candle goes off in front of him will not go down well


Not completely off but there won't be a lit candle involved. That one actually doesn't require a high frame rate at all. And they didn't cut the money, they actually increased it - but cut the Constellation program without a planned substitute.

Feb 03, 2010 at 04:31 PM
dolina
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p.1 #19 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


I am surprised that the 7D scored well with the Lexar as I was led to believe that Sandisk tunes there gear for Canon while Lexar for Nikon.

Feb 03, 2010 at 04:37 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #20 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


Ian.Dobinson wrote:
Alot of times buffer should not be viewed as number of frames but time. If your shooting off at 10fps then you have less than 3 seconds buffer. Looking back at the specs it seems that its always been between 2 and 3 seconds buffer. from the 40D onwards (looking at the specs it seems the 7D has the shortest buffer at less than 2 seconds)

Can you back the Mk4 off a little bit to get 8ish FPS? that would increase the buffer time a fair bit as the 25 frames / 8fps is over 3 sec + added the extra time the camera has to write to a fast card


Yes, the buffer memory capacity has increased, but only to effectively keep pace with the increase in file size/resolution. Having dealt with this problem for about seven years, I've developed a pretty good feel of how long to let the sequence run before easing off, but it isn't of much help when the buffer is already 75% full and the play continues longer than anticipated. Switching to 8 fps would give some benefit, but having shot high intensity action sequences for a few years with the III, it is amazing how much changes from frame to frame. Yes, there's the desire to time action for the decisive moment, but what if your client cares just as much about having as many images to choose from as possible? While extended sequences and the buffer are an issue a few times per game, a greater issue is that a clear shot of a specific player during a given play may only be a fraction of a second. If 10 fps might give me an extra frame or two in that brief window of opportunity, the client will be even happier.

Based on what I've read about the 7D the fairly skimpy RAW buffer does extend fairly generously with fast UDMA cards, so I'm hopeful about the IV.

Ron

Feb 03, 2010 at 05:25 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #21 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


Why cant Canon offer a Buffer upgrade? It cant be to difficult can it. Cant think its anything other than some memory chips. I guess that the current bodies have the memory fixed to the main board. But I cant see why they cant be removable like most laptops etc

Didn't nikon do a memory upgrade on the D3 after it came out?

Feb 03, 2010 at 06:02 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #22 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


That is exactly what I've asked the Canon pro division guys here in Canada in the past... but if the UDMA interface and internal processing is fast enough, it might mitigate the problem somewhat. It could have been that past Digic chips were also a limiting factor, not just the buffer, though I doubt Canon will ever confirm or deny that.

I think Nikon's offered the upgrade on at least some of the D2 and D3 cameras.

Feb 03, 2010 at 06:15 PM
David Manning
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p.1 #23 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


Stan has made it clear that he's not interested in the SanDisk Extreme (non Pro) or cards less than 64GB, but here are my tests.

1D Mark IV
Sandisk Extreme (non pro) 16GB
ISO 400
Tv = 1/800s

RAW = 27 shots and about 9 seconds to fully clear the buffer.
RAW = 28 shots (at 8 fps) and about 9 seconds to fully clear the buffer.
Large JPEG10 = 70 shots and about 7 seconds to fully clear the buffer.
Large JPEG8 (default) = 149 shots and about 7 seconds to fully clear the buffer.

David

Feb 03, 2010 at 06:53 PM
stanj
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p.1 #24 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


32067dlm wrote:
Stan has made it clear that he's not interested in the SanDisk Extreme (non Pro) or cards less than 64GB, but here are my tests.

1D Mark IV
Sandisk Extreme (non pro) 16GB
ISO 400
Tv = 1/800s

RAW = 27 shots and about 9 seconds to fully clear the buffer.
RAW = 28 shots (at 8 fps) and about 9 seconds to fully clear the buffer.
Large JPEG10 = 70 shots and about 7 seconds to fully clear the buffer.
Large JPEG8 (default) = 149 shots and about 7 seconds to fully clear the buffer.

David


Thanks for the test. That's in stark contradiction to this:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/854047/2#8079149

... which I never believed for a second, and exchanged a number of PMs with the poster. There's no way that the cards could vary _that_ much in speed...

Feb 03, 2010 at 07:07 PM
David Manning
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p.1 #25 · SanDisk Extreme Pro in 1D4?


Stan,

Will you be shooting JPEG or RAW?

David

Feb 03, 2010 at 07:26 PM




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