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Mark Booth Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #1 · Elinchrom Dish: Deflector Orientation OK, time for another newbish question... I just purchased a used Elinchrom 17" Minisoft Beauty Dish. The dish came with four deflectors but, unfortunately, no instructions. I quickly discovered that the deflectors could be attached to their mounting rods from either side of the deflector. But which orientation is correct? My logical brain tells me the deflector would spread the light best if the curved side of the deflector faced the flash tube. However, each of the deflectors has the Elinchrom name embossed into it on the curved side. So, that would lead me to believe the Elinchrom name is supposed to face outward ("advertising"), meaning the concave side of the deflector would face the flash tube. Or, can it be mounted in either direction depending on how you want to concentrate the light? Yeah... yeah... I know I should just try taking photos with each orientation but my suspicion is the differences will be subtle enough that this newb wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Thanks! Mark Nov 25, 2009 at 04:28 PM

bacilonur Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #2 · Elinchrom Dish: Deflector Orientation The default configuration is with the concave side facing the tube. I don't have those any more but that's how I used mine. I suspect that reversing the deflector would increase efficiency but would create a more direct light pattern, allowing more light to exit the reflector going straight out as opposed to bouncing back off the back and then the side of the reflector. You would only notice a difference at around 2'', though. What's fun is trying the deflector with other modifiers (softbox without diffusion panels, sports reflectors, umbrellas, etc). Nov 25, 2009 at 05:26 PM

Mark Booth Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #3 · Elinchrom Dish: Deflector Orientation Thanks Gabe! I absolutely plan to try the deflectors (particularly the gold one) with other modifiers. It was one of my thoughts when I purchased the 17" dish. BTW, I was originally planning to go for the 22" Speedotron dish modified with Elinchrom mount. But I started rethinking that after I looked at the photo comparison HERE. To my eyes, the Elinchrom 17" dish puts out a smoother, softer light without the hot spots caused by the ridges in the Speedotron dish. Then, when a used 17" Elinchrom dish popped up here for a very good price, I pulled the trigger. Of course, the big negative is the lack of grids for the 17" Elinchrom dish. Hmmm... maybe a business to go into! Mark Nov 25, 2009 at 07:17 PM

Carmen Miranda Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #4 · Elinchrom Dish: Deflector Orientation Mark, There is no reason you can't use the deflectors either way, but IMO they were intended to be used concave side in, as evidenced by the square indentation on the deflector that keeps the disc from rotating. Using them concave out will only widen the BD's peripheral hot spot and could potentially increase light control issues. As shown by many others use of flat discs, the deflectors primarily function is attenuation. Dispersion is secondary, with most of the light coming directly off the reflector from the source. One interesting thing I've found about this secondary dispersion is the relatively subtle effect it produces, which is particularly evident with the gold deflector when compared to a soft box with a gel or gold interior or even when bouncing off a gold reflector. The minimal effect can even be seen between the silver and translucent deflectors, where there seems to be little difference other than the elimination of the "donut hole" in the catch lights. Although my BD's are all brushed silver and I use gold pretty sparingly, I've found in testing that the gold deflector is even more subtle and pleasing off the white surface for portraits. The lack of grids is definitely a bummer (especially since the retaining lip already exists), but fortunately having a few 17" squares helps me get over it. Good luck. Nov 25, 2009 at 08:26 PM

bacilonur Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #5 · Elinchrom Dish: Deflector Orientation Mark, are you talking about this comparison? http://www.flickr.com/photos/aarontwa/3423493759/in/set-72157616507737372/ There are several very important things wrong with that comparison: The power needs to be adjusted so that the f-stop stays the same between modifiers. The Elinchrom is about one stop underexposed so of course the specular highlights are going to look smoother. The white balance needs to be set manually for each BD based off a neutral source, or else the image that is warmer is inevitably going to look better to your eyes, and the colder one is going to look more harsh, contrasty, and specular. The BDs need to be either bare or both diffused. He says that he put the cloth diffuser on the Speedo, which will remove much of the signature of a beauty dish. This immediately makes the test irrelevant as far as comparing softness and specularity between them. And finally, the distance between the BD and subject needs to be adjusted for the two different sizes. A distance of 1.5 x the diameter of the beauty dish is considered optimal, so it should be about 2 feet for the 17'' and 3 feet for a 22'' dish. He says that they were 1 foot away in the eye shot. I put both of those tiny shots through Lightroom and adjusted them a little so that they'd match each other a bit better. All I changed was exposure and white balance, based off her shirt. Open them both in new tabs and flip back and forth between them and see if you still think the 17'' is smoother. http://i50.tinypic.com/33wxtug.jpg http://i47.tinypic.com/f9njwx.jpg Nov 26, 2009 at 12:25 AM

Mark Booth Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #6 · Elinchrom Dish: Deflector Orientation Gabe, I wasn't really referring to the shots of that woman in the comparison. I agree that that particular shot was a poor comparison. Even if he had adjusted the distance of the dishes, one dish was shot with a white sock over the front of it and the other dish had a gold deflector in place. Not scientific. Rather, I was referring to the shot that showed the coverage diameter of the two dishes side-by-side, and the shot with the two dishes casting their light on the backdrop from the side. Even with the Speedotron having its sock in place, there's a pretty large hot spot right in the middle of that coverage circle. And, I find it interesting that the smaller Elinchrom casts a larger circle. And, with the side shot, you can see hot spots as a result of the ridges in the surface of the Speedotron dish. I will be shooting with the Elinchrom dish for the first time on Friday. I'm looking forward to experimenting. Mark Nov 26, 2009 at 05:12 AM

bacilonur Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #7 · Elinchrom Dish: Deflector Orientation The thing is, again, you can't compare a BD like that. Angling it against the seamless is inevitably going to result in a "hot spot" simply due to inverse square law and spill on the sides, not through the center of the dish. For a proper comparison you'll want to shoot it parallel with the seamless at 1.5 x D away. Also, those escaping rays of light are coming directly from the flash tube, as there's a gap just outside the edge of the deflector. The Mola has the same quirk. Also, the Speedo's deflector is rather thin and see-through, it definitely doesn't create a dead spot as pronounced as the 17'' with Elinchrom's deflector. That's why there's no such thing as the perfect modifier, only the right modifier for the job. The solution is to have as many modifiers to choose from. :-) Nov 26, 2009 at 05:47 AM

Mark Booth Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #8 · Elinchrom Dish: Deflector Orientation It would be interesting to compare the dishes using the Elinchrom's translucent deflector to see if the dead spot disappears. I'll try it on Friday. Mark Nov 26, 2009 at 07:06 AM

Carmen Miranda Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #9 · Elinchrom Dish: Deflector Orientation Mark Booth wrote: It would be interesting to compare the dishes using the Elinchrom's translucent deflector to see if the dead spot disappears. I'll try it on Friday. Mark Mark, Your "dead spot" won't (and should not) disappear. But your spectral highlights (direct reflection of light source) will reflect a white center instead of black, thus eliminating the donut hole effect in your catchlights. Good luck. Nov 26, 2009 at 07:27 PM

cathpah Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #10 · Elinchrom Dish: Deflector Orientation Carmen Miranda wrote: Mark Booth wrote: It would be interesting to compare the dishes using the Elinchrom's translucent deflector to see if the dead spot disappears. I'll try it on Friday. Mark Mark, Your "dead spot" won't (and should not) disappear. But your spectral highlights (direct reflection of light source) will reflect a white center instead of black, thus eliminating the donut hole effect in your catchlights. Good luck. Agreed....and I once heard (don't know if it's true) was that that spot was designed/created/used to aim at the forehead, to thus prevent the hotspot that often occurs when the key light is closest to the models forehead (in close, a bit above the eyes/forehead) but will still pump out enough light on the hair and eyes/nose/mouth to expose in a flattering way. Nov 29, 2009 at 11:32 PM

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