p.1 #1 · Will a wide Cokin-P holder vignette on a 24mm TSE (shifted) or a 21mm ZE?
Hey Guys,
First post here. In the last few weeks i've discovered that my photography is in pressing need for a few good GND filters. I've selected a couple of filters from Singh-Ray. A 2-stop soft GND and a 3-stop reverse GND. But before i pull the trigger, i'd like to figure out about the potential vignetting issues i might face in the future.
Currently my most used lens on my 5d2 is the 50mm f1.4 ZE. I also have the 24-105L which i rarely use these days and soon planning to replace it with either the 24mm TSE II, the 21mm ZE or maybe even the 20mm Voigtlander color skopar (im gonna be mostly backpacking the next couple of years). Now coming to vignetting.. do u guys think that using the Wide Angle Cokin-P holder on lenses with the 82mm thread could cause vignetting ?
p.1 #2 · Will a wide Cokin-P holder vignette on a 24mm TSE (shifted) or a 21mm ZE?
If you already have the 24-105 then you will know that it vignettes anyway at 24 on a full frame body.
I use the Cokin P series and the thinner wide angle holder still clips in a tad on the 77mm 24-105 @ 24 so I think it would on an 82mm lens also, make sure you have no other filters on before fitting the Cokin holder,i.e. take your skylight off if you have it on there.
A lot of landscape togs I know go for the larger (and more expensive) Lee filters and just hand hold them in front of the lens.
p.1 #4 · Will a wide Cokin-P holder vignette on a 24mm TSE (shifted) or a 21mm ZE?
The 24II TS-E is quite cooperative for filtering & non-vignetting. I use a Lee wide angle adapter ring and Lee Foundation holder - no vignetting. The wide angle adapter ring has recessed threads and pulls the filter holder up to the lens casing.
I also use an 82 to 77mm step-down ring and use 77mm CP's and Vari-D ND - no vignetting tilted to 2 degrees or so - common landscape setting. If you tilt and shift 4 or 5 degrees (stitch pano's - etc.) it will vignette.
JMO - the 24II is the most versatile of the three you have listed - stitch pano's - add a TC 1.4 for approx. 35mm - the 20mm is nowhere near the IQ of the 21 & 24.
p.1 #5 · Will a wide Cokin-P holder vignette on a 24mm TSE (shifted) or a 21mm ZE?
Thanks for the replies everyone. So let me get this straight.. In order to use the 24TSEII or 21ZE i'll have to go for the 100x150mm Lee/Z-Pro size holders. The regular 84x120mm filters simply wont do. Is this right ??
If so, you guys just saved me about 300$ coz i was planning on buying the 84x120mm size filters. Thanks a lot. I'll hold off my purchase till i figure out which lens to buy.
@mMontag : Yes, i agree with you that the 24II TSE is the best of the lot, esp with respect to its versatility and the creative options that it offers. I prefer it as well.. but the size of the CV 20mm pancake is really tempting. Esp for hiking and backpacking.. both of which i hope on doing a lot the next couple of years (as soon as i quit my day job early next year). Maybe i'll just have to stretch a lil and get the Zuiko 21mm f3.5 and the 24 TSEII.
p.1 #6 · Will a wide Cokin-P holder vignette on a 24mm TSE (shifted) or a 21mm ZE?
mMontag wrote:
I also use an 82 to 77mm step-down ring and use 77mm CP's and Vari-D ND - no vignetting tilted to 2 degrees or so - common landscape setting. If you tilt and shift 4 or 5 degrees (stitch pano's - etc.) it will vignette.
I just read this part again. If a 77mm Vari-ND doesn't vignette on the 24TSE (non-shifted). Then i'd assume that the chances of the P-size (84x120mm) filters vignetting are also pretty slim. Even with a few degrees of shifting. Can anyone provide more details on this?
p.1 #7 · Will a wide Cokin-P holder vignette on a 24mm TSE (shifted) or a 21mm ZE?
I'm not familiar with the Cokin products so I can't comment on them. The Lee Fouldation holder is for 100 x 150 filters. I just did this test. Using an 82 to 77mm step-down ring and a standard (not wide angle) 77mm Lee adapter to the Lee holder - no vignetting at f3.5 and no vignetting on vertical tilt. It would only vignette on horizontal shift (i.e. shift for pano's - etc.). The vignetting in the horizontal position is due to the build up area of the filter holder on the left and right. You could remove layers & reduce this on the Lee holders.
I use the filter holders as opposed to hand holding to free my hands for other functions, saves scratching and wear on filters and to be able to use the DOF button to read the position of the filters.
BTW - when you see the IQ of the 24II - you won't want to use the other sub par lighter weight lenses - just carry the weight - it's worth it.
p.1 #8 · Will a wide Cokin-P holder vignette on a 24mm TSE (shifted) or a 21mm ZE?
saravk wrote:
Thanks for the replies everyone. So let me get this straight.. In order to use the 24TSEII or 21ZE i'll have to go for the 100x150mm Lee/Z-Pro size holders. The regular 84x120mm filters simply wont do. Is this right ??
I have just received the Zeiss 21 2.8 ZE and several weeks ago the Canon TSE 24 II. They both take 82mm threads. Also bought an 82mm CP for them. However the grads I have been using (Hitech) are the 85P Cokin size and and to address your questions I just did a few tests since I was also very interested to see what would work:
I do not have an 82mm adapter for the Cokin holder as I was planning on holding the filters by hand in front of the lens. On the 24 TSE this is no problem, you don't even need to take the lens hood off. The filter is narrower than the lens hood, but using the 5DII viewfinder shows that the filter is easily wide enough, I don't see the filter edges. This says that given the ~1.5 cm depth of the hood, I could probably mount the Cokin filter holder without seeing too much vignetting (depending upon aperture). Also my strategy of hand holding would technically work.
Now the Zeiss is a different story. The wider angle of view with the 21mm focal length means that even though the petal hood is very short, holding the filter in front of the hood, it will not cover the frame. Through the viewfinder one can see quite a bit of image between the outer edges of the filter and the edge of the frame. Thus one will have to take the hood off, and the GND filter is the same width as the outer edges of the lens barrel. Holding the filter with the hood off is easy as the lens barrel will help stabilize the hand. This also says that even with a 82mm adapter, the Cokin filter holder will not work on the 21mm Zeiss. A wider system, such as the Lee will be needed if the filter holder is critical to your work style.
Since the camera is always on a tripod for this type of work, I am going to try the handhold solution to see how it works before purchasing anything else. I have done that before, even when my 77mm lens had the adapter in the camera bag.
I have done some preliminary tests comparing these two lenses with the Canon 24-70 L f2.8 and am writing up a summary...
I will probably post it on the "Alternative" Forum.
Mike K
p.1 #9 · Will a wide Cokin-P holder vignette on a 24mm TSE (shifted) or a 21mm ZE?
Thank you both for your detailed replies. I guess that the bigger Lee/Zpro filters are the way to go. I'll start off with a couple of Hitech GNDs and go from there. I'd definitely want that Reverse GND from singh-ray both for the regular GNDs i think i'll go for the cheaper options.
p.1 #10 · Will a wide Cokin-P holder vignette on a 24mm TSE (shifted) or a 21mm ZE?
I didn't try shifting or tilt with the GNDs. Obviously vertical shifting is a non-issue, but as indicated by the poster above, horizontal shifting could be. Shifting for stitching, one would not use a GND, similar to CP filters? Thus shift/tilt would be for perspective correction or focal plane adjustments only and Cokin P size of GND should work for 24 TSE II in the single shot mode.
I agree that this lens is impressively good, and I will also use it as my 24mm prime.
Mike K
p.1 #11 · Will a wide Cokin-P holder vignette on a 24mm TSE (shifted) or a 21mm ZE?
Mike K wrote:
Shifting for stitching, one would not use a GND, similar to CP filters?
Hmm.. interesting. I have no experience on this subject. But i would imagine that we should be able to use a GND on a TSE lens which is shifted (maybe not to the extreme). Otherwise a lot of its utility in terms of stitching simple (2 or 3 frame) panoramas is wasted. Wouldn't the bigger size filters help in this regard?
p.1 #12 · Will a wide Cokin-P holder vignette on a 24mm TSE (shifted) or a 21mm ZE?
mMontag wrote:
The vignetting in the horizontal position is due to the build up area of the filter holder on the left and right. You could remove layers & reduce this on the Lee holders.
Mike K,
Based on mMontag's post above i belive that the vignetting issue is due to depth of the multiple slots in the filter holder. I guess this could be solved by either removing the layers or even reversing the holder. The Cokin Z-pro allows this..
p.1 #13 · Will a wide Cokin-P holder vignette on a 24mm TSE (shifted) or a 21mm ZE?
Yes, if you held the lens motionless with the counter shift method. But it would have to really be super wide. The lens hood on the Canon 24 TSE II is 120mm in diameter and 10 mm deep. This probably represents full shift without too much vignetting. But that would need to be the width of the GND, if held closer to the lens like 5mm, would still need to be a width of greater than 110mm or so.
Typically CP filters are not used in Panos because of the frame to frame change in sky intensity which will cause stitching problems. In the shift example it is such a wide angle I imagine there will still be quite a difference in sky intensity as 2 side by side 24mm shots is up to ~160 degrees?
I would imagine that a over/under exposed blend may be easier to use for this application, ie blend over and under developed RAW after stitching. Do you absolutely need a GND for panos?
Mike K
