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Archive 2009 · How to just say no?

littleme
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p.1 #1 · How to just say no?

Hello all,
So I am very new to this, and I generally take whoever will pay my full rate as I need to pay off my equipment and build my portfolio. In general, I am strapped on time (9-5, 2 little kids, etc) but it hasn't been a problem as people have generally been booking me several months in advance, so I can spread things out.

I met a friend of a friend over drinks about a month ago. She mentioned her brother getting married the weekend before Christmas and asked if I'd consider covering it-- I said it's late notice, but I would consider. Two days later I sent her a link to my website. She hasn't contacted me until yesterday-- 3 1/2 weeks after I posted the link and 4 weeks before the wedding.

In my gut, taking this job feels like a poor choice. The logical reasons I have for this "feeling" are: a winter wedding is something new for me, and I'd need time to prep, also I use e-photos as a time to get familiar (prep) with the couple, etc and there is very little time left for that. I have my own holiday preparations, and nature print orders to frame for clients' holiday gifts now that we are so down to the wire. She also mentioned the reception being held in a local fire hall, so I'm not sure of the photography budget, but who knows.

I don't want to give them a straight no as I like to communicate well with clients and leave everything positive and clear. I definitely want to keep things cool and discourage drama of any kind. I assumed they weren't interested as I have a good number of people who ask for my website casually and have nothing come of it. At this point, finding a tog that will shoot a wedding the weekend before Christmas is going to be challenging, I think the bottom line is that they waited too long.

Any advice?

Edited on Nov 17, 2009 at 12:20 PM · View previous versions

Nov 17, 2009 at 08:30 AM

jeremy_clay
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p.1 #2 · How to just say no?

I wouldn't lie, but I would tell them that "...in the time since our last meeting, I have since had made other commitments that I cannot break." or something similar.

Nov 17, 2009 at 08:37 AM

Pinhead05
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p.1 #3 · How to just say no?

I would say walk away if your gut is telling you the job is a poor choice. Explain that in the 3 1/2 weeks they waited to contact you another contract had been signed.

Nov 17, 2009 at 08:39 AM

Kittyk
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p.1 #4 · How to just say no?

if they would pay full rate, it is you being pro to be able to handle it. But if your gut says no, just dont. My gut saved me lot of troubles already.

I would just tell them that it is too late notice and that there would not be time to prepare, e-shoot and postprocess it with your current plans. Dont lie, but be honnest. It is truth, so it should be enough.

Nov 17, 2009 at 08:43 AM

gfrasur
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p.1 #5 · How to just say no?

I had a similar situation last Christmas where an out-of-town cousin was getting married on 12-27 and asked me to do the photography. They were going to pay the full rate and I initially agreed. But the more I thought about it, the less I wanted to be a part of the whole thing. I thought it would be hard to say "no," but it turned out to be pretty painless.

Trust your instinct. Christmas weddings carry extra stress, particularly for friends and family.

Nov 17, 2009 at 08:52 AM

littleme
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p.1 #6 · How to just say no?

Thank you, friends. Here is a draft of the reply:

Hello-
Good to hear from you. As the wedding is only a couple of weeks away at this point, I really don't have enough time to make it work. We are just too short on time during a season that is already busy.

Here is the contact info for a few other local photographers in the area that are not listed in the phone book -- I'm sure there are plenty of others that are listed in the book or on-line. Sorry I am unable to help you out more.

Nov 17, 2009 at 08:58 AM

gfrasur
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p.1 #7 · How to just say no?

littleme wrote:
Sorry I am unable to help you out more.

But you're not sorry, right. You don't want to.

Say "no" without saying "I'm sorry."

Nov 17, 2009 at 09:10 AM

Matt B.
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p.1 #8 · How to just say no?

I wouldn't feel the need to justify why you can't do it so many times. Just say you are no longer available on that day, but thank you for the opportunity. Hope the wedding goes wonderfully, etc...

Nov 17, 2009 at 09:21 AM

Ric L.
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p.1 #9 · How to just say no?

She also mentioned the reception being held in a local fire hall, so I'm thinking if that is their budget then paying me in full would be high for them and they would have very high expectations of me.

You haven't even agreed to do it yet and already you've judged their ability to pay you based solely on their choice of venue? Sounds a little "uppity" to me. And why wouldn't everyone have high expectations of your work? Don't you? If not then maybe your prices are too high.

Nov 17, 2009 at 09:30 AM

dmacmillan
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p.1 #10 · How to just say no?

A lot of photographers feel they need to explain, justify and/or apologize for declining work. You don't. The less said, the better. Matt's response was appropriate.

Based on my experience, I think your response will be taken at face value.

Nov 17, 2009 at 09:37 AM

bryanlindsey
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p.1 #11 · How to just say no?

Keep it simple. "Since our last discussion I have made other commitments on that date." It's not a lie - your plans are to not shoot any weddings.

I would not say "I'm too busy" or "it's too short notice."

Nov 17, 2009 at 09:39 AM

lisy78
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p.1 #12 · How to just say no?

Hey you don't want to do it, don't do it, I suppose. And yeah provided that you mention that your gut is telling you something you will find plenty of folks here who will tell you to listen to your gut.

But to be totally frank this wedding appears to be 32 days away give or take. I can't fathom what in the world would make preparing for it such a huge hardship. If shooting an e-sesh is a condicio sine qua non for you you could always say "I'm willing to do it only provided that B&G-To-Be agree to an e-sesh to be done by no later than December 1st.

Sure we all have committments but if you're really looking to build a portfolio and pay off equipment I'd say 32 days shouldn't be a deal-breaker.

That said, whatever you decide to do is great. I just wanted to present the counterpoint here.

Nov 17, 2009 at 09:43 AM

Inku Yo
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p.1 #13 · How to just say no?

littleme wrote:
Thank you, friends. Here is a draft of the reply:

Hello-
Good to hear from you. As the wedding is only a couple of weeks away at this point, I really don't have enough time to make it work. We are just too short on time during a season that is already busy.

Here is the contact info for a few other local photographers in the area that are not listed in the phone book -- I'm sure there are plenty of others that are listed in the book or on-line. Sorry I am unable to help you out more.

I wouldn't send this... it says a few things about yourself/your business that should probably be best left out.

I would go the short/sweet/simple route. You've made holiday plans with family and cannot get out of the commitment.

Nov 17, 2009 at 10:17 AM

ngoduyviet
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p.1 #14 · How to just say no?

Trust your instinct. That's why we still exist till today.

Nov 17, 2009 at 10:50 AM

littleme
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p.1 #15 · How to just say no?

Yes probably best short and sweet. As I should have gone with this post-- I totally gave TMI, lol. I do like the e-shoot by a certain date idea, but really for me, over the next month, it's just too pressed.

My current strategy is to give 100% to several weddings a year and build my business with that model of quality and attention to detail/customer service-- so far it's paying my equipment, building my portfolio, and ending with plenty of referrals. I would rather give the business to other local togs than give less than my best to a client and my other commitments.

I think I'll say something along the lines of what matt, bryan, jeremy etc posted and add contact info for other local togs at the end.

Thanks, friends

Nov 17, 2009 at 11:08 AM

Miker Reid
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p.1 #16 · How to just say no?

Hi Littleme (Lisa),
Nice to see you on board over here.
At this stage of your development it is important for you to feel confident going into a job that you are well prepared and feel good about it.
Since you don't feel that way with this one this is the right move for you.
Telling the truth is pretty much always the way to go.
As others said, don't be sorry and don't feel like you are letting them down, not your fault they are trying to get a photog with basically no notice.

Nov 17, 2009 at 01:50 PM

Victor S
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p.1 #17 · How to just say no?

I have two weddings in December and I haven't even met the clients yet, they just booked me online. I should be doing the e-session for one couple this weekend, and second couple we will do it couple weeks before their wedding.

No problem with me at all.
I say if they are cute looking, then do it!

If you're still building a portfolio all these weddings matter. If you do it right, your wedding will bring 2-3 more clients next year.

Also if the pay is right, ask someone to second shoot for you just to have a little backup if you're not sure.

I can totally see where you're coming from though, but thought I'll give you my honest opinion.

Nov 17, 2009 at 02:21 PM

sejanus
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p.1 #18 · How to just say no?

i would say firstly follow your gut - but I'm curious, what do you need to prepare? I don't understand why you need a considerable length of time to prepare. As long as your camera/flash has batteries what else do you need?

Nov 17, 2009 at 04:58 PM

MarcyJillGood
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p.1 #19 · How to just say no?

bryanlindsey wrote:
Keep it simple. "Since our last discussion I have made other commitments on that date." It's not a lie - your plans are to not shoot any weddings.

I would not say "I'm too busy" or "it's too short notice."

+1 on Bryan's suggestion. This is well-worded and truthful. I would give the link to other photographers & just mention "Here's a link that might be helpful in located someone who is available on that date." (Or something equally as brief.

Nov 17, 2009 at 07:02 PM

littleme
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p.1 #20 · How to just say no?

Hello friends, thanks for all the feedback

(loving it over here, Mike-- thanks!)

Hmmm-- why I choose not to take a job with a month's notice... the short of it is that I have a very busy schedule and to fit it in, and do it right, it's not enough time. I could force it, do less than my best, and neglect other areas of my life, but I'd rather not.

Also, I have enough work contracted so that by the end of May, I will have a nice portfolio and paid off all my current equipment including my computer. That isn't to say I won't want to buy more gear, L glass would be hot(!). Doing all that, in less than a year after I started in weddings, is much more than I had anticipated, for sure, so I am pleased

.

As far as what takes time with clients:
1. I schedule a meeting with them, meet with them, find out what they like, review packages and the contract, wait for them to make decisions and send the deposit, wait for the deposit to clear, set up an e shoot
2. have the e-shoot, post process the e shoot, put that online, show it to them in person if I'm able, find out what they like
3. scout out the venues, contact the official to see what is allowed during the ceremony, figure out directions and hotel if applicable
4. go to the rehearsal, go to the wedding all day, rest up a bit on the day after, post process the wedding (I would be pp over Christmas

).

With my schedule the way it is, I need to spread things out, especially during Christmas when my free time is spent with friends and family and doing Christmas stuff like shopping or cutting down a tree with the kiddos.

Being that I'm a newbie, I would also like to have time read up on and possibly post a thread about winter weddings. I have a feeling things would be different-- maybe lenses would fog up outside for romantic shots, or maybe you just shoot indoors? In which case I should probably work on getting my flash off camera, etc.

I could cut back on services or rush different processes, but I'd rather keep it quality, and give the business to other togs-- I'd hope they would do the same for me, and enjoy my Christmas with my family and friends. This winter I'll probably do little stuff like read up on off-camera flash, see if I can figure out pp, and rest up for spring.

I'm not saying it's for everyone, but for me, for now, I'm happy

Nov 18, 2009 at 10:51 AM

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