Shooting with Strobes Question

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Archive 2009 · Shooting with Strobes Question

skyvan
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p.1 #1 · Shooting with Strobes Question

I just got the final approval needed to use the arena strobes to shoot Women's basketball on Wednesday. I've never shot sports with strobes before and am wondering what I should expect. I'm going to be triggering them with my skyports. There are 4 zones with three lights on each side of the court and 1 each on the ends. I'm wondering if I should use FP mode to shoot at a higher shutter speed and lower iso to cut out the ambient light or if I should instead just try to utilize the strobes to freeze the action and let the ambient light come in and go with a longer shutter speed. Please give me any strobe tips you have as I really hope to get this to work on Wednesday (and then possibly use it for a hockey game on the weekend if I can get approval for it).
-Andrew

Nov 16, 2009 at 11:59 PM

ishootsports3
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p.1 #2 · Shooting with Strobes Question

dont think FP will work... id shoot at 250 and whatever setting work around that, maybe if you have an old d50/d70/d1x/h break it out and play with the insane sync speed

Nov 17, 2009 at 01:03 AM

cm0rris0n
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p.1 #3 · Shooting with Strobes Question

let the strobes stop the action. Set shutter to sync and set a combination of aperture/iso that will negate ambient (and be properly exposed with your strobes). Also the usual disclaimer of using proper safety gear and having proper liability insurance apply. Do a search for strobes on this board and you'll find a lot more info, probably more than you can digest by Wed.

Nov 17, 2009 at 01:13 AM

skyvan
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p.1 #4 · Shooting with Strobes Question

Yeah, the strobes are already set up and the liability insurance the school has covers them afaik.

As for the other poster, the only bodies I have are d90 and d700 so no chance that I can use a hi sync speed. I guess I'll have to play around with the iso and aperture until I get good exposure

Nov 17, 2009 at 01:18 AM

Matt Cope
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p.1 #5 · Shooting with Strobes Question

If you are hooking up to 'in-situ strobes' already wired into the building, then there is no way you could use FP flash as that relies on a camera specific flashgun and lots of clever syncronisation...

Nov 17, 2009 at 01:50 PM

skyvan
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p.1 #6 · Shooting with Strobes Question

Matt Cope wrote:
If you are hooking up to 'in-situ strobes' already wired into the building, then there is no way you could use FP flash as that relies on a camera specific flashgun and lots of clever syncronisation...
Okay, that's good to know I wasn't sure about that. The only strobes I've used before have been SB-600s and METZ-54As so it will be my first time shooing with "real" strobes so I wasn't sure. I'm going to set my triggers up 3 hours before the game and test my exposure well before hand and get it down pat before the teams even start practicing.

Nov 17, 2009 at 01:56 PM

KrautFed
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p.1 #7 · Shooting with Strobes Question

Let us know how it goes. It's usually that every gym/setup is different. You should have plenty of time to get it right even before warmups.

Nov 17, 2009 at 03:08 PM

sutegrat
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p.1 #8 · Shooting with Strobes Question

Shooting with strobes:

1) How are you going to trigger the strobes? In most cases the strobes are connected to a radio transmitter/receiver (PocketWiazrd) that you need to trigger. Having a PocketWizard on your camera on the same channel is a must.

2) Shoot in manual mode, and only single shot mode. You can't burst with strobes, unless they have super fast recycle times.

3) Do a custom white balance with the strobes.

4) If you're using a PocketWizard, set your camera to manual mode, and the shutter to 1/250. The light is controlled by the aperture, not the shutter.

5) Set your ISO to the lowest setting and change in combination with Aperture to nail the exposure.

6) Check your light coverage. Are you getting only half court/ice, 1/3rd or something different.

7) Don't stare at the strobes when you trigger them, they are bright.

8) If done right you won't want to shoot ambient again.

9) Knowing the equipment in the ceiling (strobes) will help with these types of questions and heopfully your expectations.

10) Go early to learn the setup and test, test, test...

-Paul

Nov 17, 2009 at 06:52 PM

skyvan
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p.1 #9 · Shooting with Strobes Question

Thanks Paul. I'm going to use Elinchrom Skyports as there are four seperated zones. I plan to set it up so that i can easily switch zones at half time when I switch sides of the court. zones and it was much more affordable to just get 4 skyport receivers and two transmitters than it was to get 6 pocket wizard transceivers.

Nov 17, 2009 at 07:11 PM

Matt Cope
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p.1 #10 · Shooting with Strobes Question

Sounds like you're set then. Make sure you have the right cable connectors (big strobes often use mini-jacks instead of PC cables), and follow Paul's advice above and you won't go far wrong.

Let us see how you get on

Nov 17, 2009 at 09:17 PM

skyvan
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p.1 #11 · Shooting with Strobes Question

Crap I didn't think about the cables...It seems like it comes with a lot of cables. So hopefully it has the right stuff.

Nov 17, 2009 at 09:19 PM

Matt Cope
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p.1 #12 · Shooting with Strobes Question

Skyports are usually sold to people using big studio strobes so you should be alright, unless the house lights have really weird connectors. If you can get over there to check before the event that might be a good idea...

I find www.flashzebra.com really good for cheap cables by the way..

Nov 17, 2009 at 09:37 PM

skyvan
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p.1 #13 · Shooting with Strobes Question

Ok, yeah I just got the skypotts because they are cheap and I hope to get elinchrom strobes at some point. accessing the catwalk without the house lights on is near impossible so I have to wait for before the game.

Nov 17, 2009 at 09:47 PM

NickyD
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p.1 #14 · Shooting with Strobes Question

If there are already strobes there, that means somebody has been using them right?

I would strongly suggest you contact the person who either owns the strobes or uses them the most and talk to them about what you are doing. They may have set up one zip line that all the lights plug into to fire off of one add-a-tap via pocket wizard. So, you pulling out all the connections to add your skyports might not be a good idea.

They can also tell you about any idiosyncrasies they've noticed with their lights. (IF you sit in this corner, the shadow from the net falls across of any free line shooter or somesuch) OR, how they'd like you to power them off or on, or where their add-a-tap is to plug in to.

When renting or using someone else's lights, just have the courtesy to ask them before making any changes.

Nov 18, 2009 at 01:12 AM

DannWunderlich
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p.1 #15 · Shooting with Strobes Question

nicky has some really good advice there - do not ignore that

Nov 18, 2009 at 01:25 AM

Dave Hahn
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p.1 #16 · Shooting with Strobes Question

I would suggest setting your exposure via a meter. Strobes should be set 2 stops above ambient lights. If the lights are already set-up they pretty much will be set as needed. if you are setting them up for the first time I would suggest getting there well before the game (and practice) The main thing is setting your camera to the x-sync and adjusting the iso and aperture as needed. Remember the effective shutter speed is not the flash duration. if you are shooting at a college the NCAA requires a flash duration of at least 1/2000th of a second.

Nov 18, 2009 at 04:19 AM

skyvan
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p.1 #17 · Shooting with Strobes Question

It's actually not really anybody's lights. They are owned by the school which also operates the arena and they are sometimes used by the schools Media Relations photography company, but at most two or three times a year by them. From what I understand they were originally purposed at the request of both the Rich Clarkson Associates (the photography company they contract) and the DU Clarion, the paper that I shoot for so there is not really anyone I can contact, no one at the athletic department has any idea about how to use them or anything, but I've done some reading and my editor is going to help me set the stuff up as well.

As for Dave's comment. I am sure that they have already been set up to NCAA specifications, but as for the meter idea, I will try to set them up using the meter built in to my camera for metering. I don't own a light meter because I haven't had a need for one yet and I hope I can get good results.

Thanks everybody for your suggestions, I can't wait to see what results I get and to share them here.

Nov 18, 2009 at 05:24 AM

clarence3
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p.1 #18 · Shooting with Strobes Question

Dave Hahn wrote:
Remember the effective shutter speed is not the flash duration.

Can you explain this?

With flash at 2 stops above ambient, wouldn't flash duration become effective shutter speed for freezing motion?

Nov 18, 2009 at 05:45 AM

Dave Hahn
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p.1 #19 · Shooting with Strobes Question

clarence3 wrote:
Dave Hahn wrote:
Remember the effective shutter speed is not the flash duration.

Can you explain this?

With flash at 2 stops above ambient, wouldn't flash duration become effective shutter speed for freezing motion?

Oops my bad. Flash duration IS the effective SS sorry for any confusion.

Nov 18, 2009 at 05:57 AM

Dave Hahn
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p.1 #20 · Shooting with Strobes Question

skyvan wrote:
It's actually not really anybody's lights. They are owned by the school which also operates the arena and they are sometimes used by the schools Media Relations photography company, but at most two or three times a year by them. From what I understand they were originally purposed at the request of both the Rich Clarkson Associates (the photography company they contract) and the DU Clarion, the paper that I shoot for so there is not really anyone I can contact, no one at the athletic department has any idea about how to use them or anything, but I've done some reading and my editor is going to help me set the stuff up as well.

As for Dave's comment. I am sure that they have already been set up to NCAA specifications, but as for the meter idea, I will try to set them up using the meter built in to my camera for metering. I don't own a light meter because I haven't had a need for one yet and I hope I can get good results.

Thanks everybody for your suggestions, I can't wait to see what results I get and to share them here.

Remember the camera meter works off of reflected light. When you use a light meter it will better meter the actual light. Take some test shots and use your histogram.

Nov 18, 2009 at 06:01 AM

skyvan
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p.1 #21 · Shooting with Strobes Question

Okay, thanks for the advice. I do plan on taking test shots until I get the exposure right on both bodies...I expect the exposure to be very different on each of the bodies due to the fact that one of them will actually end up seeing the flash of one of the strobes in the frame (floor mounted remote pointing up towards the hoop). I'm really excited to shoot with strobes and really do appreciate everyone's help.

Nov 18, 2009 at 07:03 AM

Dave Hahn
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p.1 #22 · Shooting with Strobes Question

If you are firing the floor mounted camera via a remote you will need to set that up in relay mode. I know how to do it with the pocket wizards. Not sure about the skyports. Both cameras will not be able to pick up the strobes at the same time due to the relay time of the remotes. So, basicly you will be treating them as 2 completely different set-ups. I use my remotes with strobes all the time. It took me some time to get them working correctly. Good luck and I'd like to see what you come up with.

Nov 18, 2009 at 04:37 PM

skyvan
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p.1 #23 · Shooting with Strobes Question

Yes I understand that. I am not firing it as a remote with the skyport though. What I will be doing is putting a skyport transmitter in its hot shoe and firing it via a remote cable so that the strobes are usable for both. The remote is for shots closer to the basket where my handheld glass will be too long.

Nov 18, 2009 at 05:01 PM

sutegrat
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p.1 #24 · Shooting with Strobes Question

skyvan wrote:
... firing it via a remote cable so that the strobes are usable for both. The remote is for shots closer to the basket where my handheld glass will be too long.

remote cable on floor of basketball game = greater chance for accidents... there shouldn't be any cables on the floor...

Nov 18, 2009 at 06:10 PM

skyvan
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p.1 #25 · Shooting with Strobes Question

It shouldn't be a problem. I've seen other photographers using it and its not like the cable is very long, its literally a 2 foot long cable that will be next to me, so if they trip on the cable that also means I've been kicked in the face.

I've set everything up now...strobes are working and its all looking good. All of the strobes are for some reason tied to one trigger which makes it easy for me. I have both my wide and my handheld set up to trigger the strobes, and we will see how it goes, so far though i'm happy.

Nov 18, 2009 at 06:18 PM


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