p.4 #7 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list
Honestly Jacob, I don't want to do business with my sole objective being to crush my competition. I would have entered a different field if that was the case.
I'm in business to create great photos, make my clients happy and make good money doing it. I don't need to lie to and steal from my colleagues to do that. I don't need to try to run every other studio in town into the ground to do that. I don't need to "do whatever it takes" to be successful.
I wonder if Richard Avedon sat around going "How can I figure out who all of Yousuf Karsh's clients are so I can steal them and destroy him?"
p.4 #8 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list
Jeremy: I have done that. I still think it's sad it came to that. I see all of the great wedding photographers on the FM forums supporting each other, even to the point of sharing clients and working together. I was hoping the photographers in my community could do that too, but that spirit went out the window the past few years.
p.4 #9 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list
Tony,
Most of my comments were addressed to Benj's idealist view of business "ethics" and competition that seem to defy the very word "compete".
I'm not inferring that you, or your nemesis here, is trying to crush everyone by doing what ever it takes. You made your client list public knowledge for the world to see it. Your competition capitalized on that mistake. You have now corrected the mistake (it sounds like from your earlier post). It's no big deal, it's capitalism, it's business. At the end of the day the better business will thrive, sounds like you're doing very well, you might consider that you *are* crushing this particular guy whether you mean to or not. You could always talk to him about it, at least both of you will walk away knowing where the other stands.
p.4 #11 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list
CRFTony wrote:
I want to thank everyone for their advice. I didn't realize I could make my friends list private, so I went ahead and did that. That should take care of most of the problem. I'm not concerned enough with it to confront him.
I had the same thing happen except someone was raiding my fish business contacts. It's easy to take care of. You find the guys profile and when you open it, on the left hand side is a report/block option. Just block the guy and your profile won't come up for him at all.
p.4 #12 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list
... I hope you aren't losing any sleep over this. Let the quality of your work
speak for itself. I'll add you and the FB stalker to my FB account just for the fun
of it.
p.4 #14 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list
kakomu wrote:
I haven't seen anyone suggest this.
Then you haven't been paying attention.
Jacob said: "scale back your own success to ensure that other competitors get their fare share" not to mention everything else you and he said that indicates that you don't understand that there is more room at the top than many people think. Look...I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm just pointing out some principles of business that will help anyone that's willing to try it out.
p.4 #17 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list
Jacob D wrote:
Now I know why I feel like the odd duck out in this thread, you guys are talking about communism, not capitalism.
I'm 100% against ANY form of communism, socialism, etc etc etc (i.e. living off of the work of another person).
I'm 100% for competition (but the good kind). Capitalism is what it is, and can be good or bad depending on the people that are functioning in the system. If we're living according to honest business practices, and we are being truly competitive, but not underhanded, then the system is able to truly be what it needs to be. But when people take advantage of the system, Capitalism gets a slight taint. Unfortunately, that is what has happened to some degree in our current economy.
I'm not really sure who you think is speaking of communism, because there is nothing in what I said or CRFTony said to indicate that we are in any way supportive of communism or any of it's despicable cousins.
p.4 #18 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list
It's the Internet where all expectations of privacy go out the window. Personally, I do think that it's rather crappy of the other photographer to troll for clients through your FB friends listing. However, as much as I'd like to think that we should all play nice according to some basic unwritten rules, its just not going to happen. People are people and business is business and history has shown that people will do whatever necessary to better themselves and their own situations at the expense of others. Block him from seeing your content, learn a valuable lesson, and move along.
I think that all this bantering about "moral high-ground" and "ethical behavior" are nice and all but just not reality. How long have we been discussing and arguing about not giving work away, charging what your time is worth, and not working on spec? There's always going to be someone who simply says "to hell with that! I'm doing what's best for ME!"
For one, I try and adhere to a set of ethical guidelines when doing business. If I'm at a game shooting and find out there's an "official" photographer there, I won't usurp his/her agreement by underselling or giving images away. If the tables were turned would I hope they would do the same? Absolutely. Do I EXPECT that they would do the same? Absolutely not.
p.4 #19 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list
Jacob D wrote:
Tony,
Most of my comments were addressed to Benj's idealist view of business "ethics" and competition that seem to defy the very word "compete".
I'm not inferring that you, or your nemesis here, is trying to crush everyone by doing what ever it takes. You made your client list public knowledge for the world to see it. Your competition capitalized on that mistake. You have now corrected the mistake (it sounds like from your earlier post). It's no big deal, it's capitalism, it's business. At the end of the day the better business will thrive, sounds like you're doing very well, you might consider that you *are* crushing this particular guy whether you mean to or not. You could always talk to him about it, at least both of you will walk away knowing where the other stands....Show more →
Jacob - Like Kakomu, you also don't see the fine line drawn in the sand. It's not idealist. It's actually quite achievable, and you'd be surprised how many people live this way. I hate that I feel like I have to explain it this way, but your lack of understanding gives me no other choice.
Capitalism is like the Force (in Star Wars). If you're a star wars fan, you'll understand where I'm going with this, but I'll explain for any out there that haven't seen the movies.
Basically, you choose what you do with it. You can make good choices and base your business off of your own hard work, sweat, tears, etc and deal honestly with others. Doing so will increase your success, but you'll be on the good side. Capitalism is just an environment through which to opperate, so if you choose to, you can subscribe to a lower level of thinking that is driven by greed and pettiness.
p.4 #20 · Another photographer is raiding my Facebook friends list
I guess what I'm saying is that by choosing to live the higher law, you decide not to take part in underhanded activities designed to "crush" your competition. Instead, you push your hardest within your sphere to do your very best. You also do what you can to build the community around you.
I personally print t-shirts as a side gig, and I've befriended a lot of my competitors, and instead of suffering from nativity, I've actually benefited. My competitors have helped me out of some tight spots and vice versa. We aren't limited by the narror view that there is only so much pie to go around. We've all decided to start making our own pies.
Everyone that has been contradicting me has shown that they have a narrow view of what's possible. They don't see the bigger picture, and that's sad for me. But what can you do? I'm not going to try anymore to convince anyone here in this thread. I figure CRFTony and I have said enough to fully explain the big picture, but if you won't see it, then there's nothing I can do. Good luck to you all. I look forward to other threads that are less heated, but I appreciate the participation here.
