R1/R1C1 vs SB900

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Archive 2009 · R1/R1C1 vs SB900

aFrIcanSH
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p.1 #1 · R1/R1C1 vs SB900

I've some money to spend, not much, but enough for something decent. My 35mm, 85mm, 105mm and 55-200mm covers most of the stuff I do and I hardly ever pick up the 35mm (wide enough for me). Will have the opportunity to use a 17-35mm sigma on december so I'll decide on the wide end.

Anyways got a coupla questions on these 2 flashes.

After doing some macro today I found my SB600 doesn't recycle fast enough for my shooting and would like to fire the flash quick enough to get one or two decent shots in a burst. I've ordered a Kirk bracket FB-8 and a giottos ballhead to use the flash off camera. Now I'm wondering if the power wise, how does the R1 compare? How bout the SU800 vs the SB900 in terms of functionality for shooting, AF speed etc (for macro and everything else) and what advantages are there for me to buy an SB900 over an R1 or vice versa?

Right now I'm leaning towards the SB900 cause it's more powerful than the 600 i got, plus more versatile than the R1. If i got the R1 i don't think i'll sell the SB600 cause i'd have no flash I could use on camera and for events and whatever, whilst if i got the SB900 that could replace the Sb600.

Thanks and Cheers

Nov 14, 2009 at 03:45 PM

LeifG
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p.1 #2 · R1/R1C1 vs SB900

The R1 is optimised for macro, and allows excellent modeling for close ups. But, the output is not high, so it is not really suitable for non macro subjects. I tried with a bee swarm and the 200mm micro lens. For some odd reason I did not want to use a 60mm lens to photograph the bees. But the results were less than ideal, as the distance (several metres) was too much. In terms of recycling, I don't think it is much better than the SB900. (I haven't measured, but you still have to wait around while the SB200 units recharge.) Basically, R1 for macro, SB900/600 for normal use.

Nov 14, 2009 at 05:40 PM

Len Shepherd
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p.1 #3 · R1/R1C1 vs SB900

LeifG wrote:
Basically, R1 for macro, SB900/600 for normal use.
Or the SB800 (with the head tilted down from the hot shoe and diffuser on) for macro with a 200mm macro at 18 inches - 3 feet.
The SB900 does something similar but as it is taller on the hot shoe it is best not used much closer than 2 feet.
The SB800 & 900 have several stops more flash power than the R1 set up making them best for intermediate distance macro shots with longer lenses.
If you need the flash from 2 inches to about 6 inches in front of the lens the R1 set up has no equal.
An SB900 (or 2) on brackets with diffusers down can be a very potent and powerful though heavy combination from about 6 inches in front of the lens to about 2 feet.

Nov 14, 2009 at 10:19 PM

Timm
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p.1 #4 · R1/R1C1 vs SB900

Ditto what Leif wrote. Another factor to consider is that the SB-R200s use those 3V CR123 lithium batteries, while the SB900 uses AA cells. Excellent quality NiMH rechargeables are easy to find and cheap in AA, rare and expensive in CR123.

But, for the recycle times... you're shooting macro, right? The flash should be operating at a small fraction of full output, which should give you very fast recycle times. Are you using NiMH rechargeable batteries (which provide the fastest recycle times)? If you're using alkaline cells, that's likely your problem.

Consider versatility: An SB 900 can be used for macro (with an appropriate diffuser, which you can make (Google is your friend)), as a controller for up to three other groups of flashes, as a wireless remote, etc. It covers focal lengths from 14-200mm without extra modifiers, and can spotlight a subject at a great distance or fill a large room with light. The R 200s are almost exclusively for macro (if you buy enough of them, you can use them as a portrait ring-light), limited to a few meters of range. And the SB-R200s are only usable as wireless remotes--they have no hot-shoe mount.

I have an SB900, several SB800s, and the R1 kit. Guess which flash sees the most use?

Nov 14, 2009 at 10:32 PM

eaglewolf
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p.1 #5 · R1/R1C1 vs SB900

I bought the R1C1 kit and love it. However, as mentioned it isn't a high output flash. I'm pleased with its performance on macro, though I sometimes combine it with the SB-800 if I need the extra flash. Sometimes I've used one of the flashes as a backlight and liked the results I saw with that. Wireless flash, regardless if you are talking the R1 or the SB-800/900 flashes, is a wonderful invention.

For me, one nice thing about the R1C1 is the SU-800. That actually gets a lot of use. I enjoy using it to control my SB-800 rather than using the pop-up flash on the camera when using the flash off camera. (It also works with my SB-26, which was an unexpected bonus.)

Neither of my macro lenses are AF-S versions, and they are not noted for speedy AF. So the R1C1 system is not generally my limiting factor in macro work.

As stated, the R1 system isn't any speedier than the bigger flashes in recycle time. If that is a factor for you, consider instead one of the battery packs available, such as the Al Jacobs Black Box or Tuxedo battery packs. He makes products that get great reviews here and elsewhere, and if you call him up he is a great guy to talk to as well. Check him out at:

http://www.aljacobs.com/

The R1 provided me with what I was looking for, but if you need higher output look elsewhere. The kit is rather pricey, and many would prefer a more versatile flash system for that amount of money. It really does give you a lot in the kit, but you would have to determine if it meets your needs as it is a dedicated macro system.

David

Nov 15, 2009 at 05:26 AM

LeifG
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p.1 #6 · R1/R1C1 vs SB900

By the way, some people get rather good results with the built in flash alone (assuming your camera has one) and a reversed wide angle prime lens (non G obviously). This chap has some nice examples using a D70 and (I think) a reversed 24mm lens.

Example Photos
Example Photos: alternative site

Len Shepherd wrote:
LeifG wrote:
Basically, R1 for macro, SB900/600 for normal use.
Or the SB800 (with the head tilted down from the hot shoe and diffuser on) for macro with a 200mm macro at 18 inches - 3 feet.
The SB900 does something similar but as it is taller on the hot shoe it is best not used much closer than 2 feet.
The SB800 & 900 have several stops more flash power than the R1 set up making them best for intermediate distance macro shots with longer lenses.
If you need the flash from 2 inches to about 6 inches in front of the lens the R1 set up has no equal.
An SB900 (or 2) on brackets with diffusers down can be a very potent and powerful though heavy combination from about 6 inches in front of the lens to about 2 feet.

My experience is that you get a very harsh and unnatural light with an SB800 mounted on camera using a diffuser on the flash. I've tried the built in one, and a Gary Fong style unit too. I would be interested to see your examples. However if you mount the diffuser at the front of the lens the results can be excellent:

Example flash on camera + diffuser

The above examples are clearly near macro, and I'm not sure how well the milk jug diffuser works for more distant subjects.

Nov 15, 2009 at 09:04 AM

LeifG
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p.1 #7 · R1/R1C1 vs SB900

eaglewolf wrote:
The R1 provided me with what I was looking for, but if you need higher output look elsewhere. The kit is rather pricey, and many would prefer a more versatile flash system for that amount of money. It really does give you a lot in the kit, but you would have to determine if it meets your needs as it is a dedicated macro system.

David

My main objection to the R1 Nikon flash system is that it is so damned tricky to set up my D200 for macro shooting, and to 'unset' it for normal shooting. I have to set the mode to manual, the speed to 1/250", then go to the menus, and configure commander mode, with the desired balance between the two groups, and then check that the R200 units are correctly set. You would think there was a way to store all settings, and quickly switch between "macro" and "normal" saved settings, but it seems not.

Nov 15, 2009 at 09:07 AM

aFrIcanSH
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p.1 #8 · R1/R1C1 vs SB900

How does the SU800 compare to the Sb900 in terms of a commander? I mean those of you who have the SU800 and SB800/900 would you pick the SU800 over the 900 anyday?

I'm thinking of the Sb900 primarily because I don't really want to spend $450 on 'cubes' of the R1. And if i need to fire them in quick succession i'm not sure if they can keep up, and they seem to add some length to the front end of my lens which reduces my working distance more (or so i assume).

What can I expect of the Sb900 over the sb600 such as this even flash and what not? I've done some reading but most of them are just overviews and explanation of some of the specs such as the 14-200mm zoom head and color filters that come with it. But how bout the other features of the 900 you find useful? How good is the 900 as a slave (cause I plan to use it off camera more than on it, more for the power and features) I might keep the 600 as a slave or some creative lighting.

Thanks a million guys, and sorry for the barrage of questions

Nov 16, 2009 at 01:46 AM

eaglewolf
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p.1 #9 · R1/R1C1 vs SB900

LeifG wrote:
eaglewolf wrote:
The R1 provided me with what I was looking for, but if you need higher output look elsewhere. The kit is rather pricey, and many would prefer a more versatile flash system for that amount of money. It really does give you a lot in the kit, but you would have to determine if it meets your needs as it is a dedicated macro system.

David

My main objection to the R1 Nikon flash system is that it is so damned tricky to set up my D200 for macro shooting, and to 'unset' it for normal shooting. I have to set the mode to manual, the speed to 1/250", then go to the menus, and configure commander mode, with the desired balance between the two groups, and then check that the R200 units are correctly set. You would think there was a way to store all settings, and quickly switch between "macro" and "normal" saved settings, but it seems not.

Actually that's why I bought the R1C1 system. Using the SU-200 means that I don't have to change anything on the D300 or the D200 when I switch between the R1 system and regular flash. The SU-800 works like a regular flash unit, and when you switch it for the SB-800 or the pop-up flash, nothing needs to be changed on the camera. As for the system without the SU-800, I've never used it that way so I can't comment on it. I could never see a reason to use it that way. In fact, I normally use the SU-800 when I am just using the SB-800 since it works so well.

Still, the R1 system is expensive regardless of whether it is purchased with the SU-800 or not. A dedicated macro system for about $600 that doesn't do everything one needs it to. If higher flash output is needed and macro is not the primary use, then there are better choices.

David

Nov 16, 2009 at 02:05 AM

LeifG
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p.1 #10 · R1/R1C1 vs SB900

eaglewolf wrote:
LeifG wrote:
eaglewolf wrote:
The R1 provided me with what I was looking for, but if you need higher output look elsewhere. The kit is rather pricey, and many would prefer a more versatile flash system for that amount of money. It really does give you a lot in the kit, but you would have to determine if it meets your needs as it is a dedicated macro system.

David

My main objection to the R1 Nikon flash system is that it is so damned tricky to set up my D200 for macro shooting, and to 'unset' it for normal shooting. I have to set the mode to manual, the speed to 1/250", then go to the menus, and configure commander mode, with the desired balance between the two groups, and then check that the R200 units are correctly set. You would think there was a way to store all settings, and quickly switch between "macro" and "normal" saved settings, but it seems not.

Actually that's why I bought the R1C1 system. Using the SU-200 means that I don't have to change anything on the D300 or the D200 when I switch between the R1 system and regular flash. The SU-800 works like a regular flash unit, and when you switch it for the SB-800 or the pop-up flash, nothing needs to be changed on the camera. As for the system without the SU-800, I've never used it that way so I can't comment on it. I could never see a reason to use it that way. In fact, I normally use the SU-800 when I am just using the SB-800 since it works so well.

Still, the R1 system is expensive regardless of whether it is purchased with the SU-800 or not. A dedicated macro system for about $600 that doesn't do everything one needs it to. If higher flash output is needed and macro is not the primary use, then there are better choices.

David

Clearly I should have bought the SU800. Thanks for the information.

Nov 16, 2009 at 08:31 AM

Chestnut
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p.1 #11 · R1/R1C1 vs SB900

I have a SB-900, and use the R1C1 at work a lot. They're just completely different creatures. SB-900 great for everything, but the R1C1 is designed specifically for VERY close-up work. They're phenomenal at what they're designed for.

I tried taking a portrait around 10-12 feet away, and the R1C1 doesn't like it at all.

I was taking macro shots with a SB900 - required me to set everything up ahead of time, light stands - I wouldn't have been able to do it one handed like I could the R1C1, and I have 1 light source rather than 2.

Depending on what you want them for, get the appropriate tool.

Nov 17, 2009 at 02:52 AM

aFrIcanSH
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p.1 #12 · R1/R1C1 vs SB900

How quick does the R1C1/R1 recycle (from your experience, nikon states something like 6 seconds?) and are the included diffusers effective in softening and spreading out the light? Was thinking of using the Sb600 off camera, using the kirk bracket and making/buying a large-ish diffuser to spread the light.

Nov 17, 2009 at 04:10 AM


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