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Archive 2009 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

Matt Dunn
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p.22 #1 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

This thread has opened my eyes. I'm done with it and with PCB, both the personand the company.

Same. The thinly veiled hate poorly disguised as a "political view" is just a bit too ugly for me.

Shame I actually worked hard most of my young years and went to Harvard where, if you listen to Paul, I apparently didn't learn much of anything that wouldn't have better taught in good ol' Tennessee where they teach plain ol' common sense and a capacity to actually care for one another.

I don't care a whit for the ill-founded (I lived under a communist/socialist regime for almost ten years - calling Obama a socialist is ignorant at best and intentionally inflammatory at worst) and rambling "political views" of some crotchety old man that clearly has enough anger and self-victimization issues to fill Yankee stadium.

But, as a customer (and now, thanksto this thread, a former) customer, it would be nice for a business owner to actually have enough...ahem..."common sense" to recognize that discussing politics with customers might not be the smartest thing for business.

But we all know Paul, and he will come in here and claim that he knows more, has seen more, and has done more than we all have in our lives...congratulations, Paul. And, as someone said, you are fully entitled to your freedom of speech and expression. As a lawyer, I took an oath to defend that right of yours. But, whether you choose to believe it or not, Paul, we do live in a capitalist and free market society, and I get a vote with my wallet. The polls just closed, Paul, and I've got some bad news for you...

For everyone else looking forward to the light, I do hope that Einstein works out for you. Lots of people seem very excited for it and it be great to see those folks turn out some slick images with the new toy. It would be nice, however, if we could keep a lighting forum actually focused on lighting in the future...

Mar 10, 2010 at 02:07 PM

Deezie
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p.22 #2 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

This thread is exactly why two years ago I went from owning and advocating Paul's gear to giving his lights away and buying Hensel. The CEO of Hensel may very well be of questionable character, but he's not trolling the boards and displaying his awful behavior in my face... Pity...

Mar 10, 2010 at 03:09 PM

kenyee
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p.22 #3 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

Matt Dunn wrote:
Same. The thinly veiled hate poorly disguised as a "political view" is just a bit too ugly for me.

Wait a sec...where is the "hate" you mention? Sounded more like "government is too big" than anything else.
Most MA residents don't think government can ever get too big until their entire family has a state job w/ 80% lifetime pension and cheap healthcare plans in retirement

At any rate, AB and Einstein still has the best bang for buck ratio of any lighting system and you can graft Elinchrom modifers to it as well thanks to Kacey...

Mar 10, 2010 at 03:13 PM

Matt Dunn
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p.22 #4 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

kenyee wrote::
Most MA residents don't think government can ever get too big until their entire family has a state job w/ 80% lifetime pension and cheap healthcare plans in retirement

Uhm...I live and work in Boston and have for years.

And unless I am sorely mistaken, MA residents, who you claim have a love for big government, just shook up the entire political landscape by handing the most easily-winnable Democratic seat in the entire federal political system and handed it to Scott Brown, whose campaign almost exclusively focused around making DC smaller.

So, yes, other than that fact...

Guys, its been fun, but I'll bow out (a second time). Going to go look for a set of forums that actually discuss lighting.

Best of luck to you all.

Mar 10, 2010 at 03:18 PM

photomarvin
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p.22 #5 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

"From what I've seen, and I have seen some stuff most of you haven't seen, it is going to be a real game changer in what most working and amateur photographers expect from flash gear that isn't in the Profoto Pro 8 & higher end Broncolor price range. I'm being serious about that."

Care to share? Have you used the lights? Or just seen stuff Paul has sent you? This is a serious question by the way...hopefully it will get us back on track 8-)

Mar 10, 2010 at 03:31 PM

Tom RC
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p.22 #6 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

The comments on this thread……both lighting and otherwise have convinced me of one thing for certain. Without question I am a PCB customer for life!!!!!!!!! Hard to speak the truth these days to many of which have their only view of reality based in Ivy League textbooks…or any textbooks for that matter. It is easy to be an armchair QB but go out and try to do what Paul has done from a business standpoint. Try to produce a quality product made in the US, offer top notch customer service and maintain competitive pricing? I’m guessing very few here who seem to be verbally chastising Paul have very little first hand experience in these matters.

Thanks Paul for providing a solid and dependable product at fair prices and the best customer service I have experienced from any photography related company. Most of us really appreciate your contributions!!!!!!!!!!!

Mar 10, 2010 at 03:32 PM

E-Vener
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p.22 #7 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

In the words of Rolling Stone's publisher Jann Wenner to Annie Leibovitz, people should get back to "snapping their shutters and shutting their snappers."

Although at the time, JW may have also meant something else by that remark.

Mar 10, 2010 at 03:37 PM

CGP4
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p.22 #8 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

E-Vener wrote:
From what I've seen, and I have seen some stuff most of you haven't seen, it is going to be a real game changer in what most working and amateur photographers expect from flash gear that isn't in the Profoto Pro 8 & higher end Broncolor price range. I'm being serious about that.

Hopefully at some point I'd like to see what Paul and his team have done with the Einstein applied to a Zeus II pack & head system, but I also recognize that pack and head systems area small slice of even the narrow market segment made up of working high end commercial photographers.

Ellis Vener http://www.ellisvener.com

Like Ellis, I'm excited for these and am on the list for a couple of Einsteins, despite having a large Dyna-Lite pack & head system that I love and am quite happy with. I figure, for not much more than the price of a speedlight, I'll have a very capable tool to supplement my needs. And, like Ellis, I hope Zeus gets the Einstein treatment someday!

Mar 10, 2010 at 03:51 PM

Neuffy
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p.22 #9 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

Einstein'd Zeus = instabuy, but I can't place any real expectation upon that due to the small market.

I can't believe people care so much about the politics of the people they do business with. Seriously - you choose not to deal with somebody over a political disagreement that you only know about because they don't hide behind anonymity or an impersonal facade? I disagree with PCB politically as much or more than any person here (I'm not American - I tend to find US politics unreasonably polarized, and end up spewing epithets at all involved parties), but that doesn't affect the key decision.

The key decision is this: Will I be well served by dealing with this company? Will it be a pleasurable interaction in the purchasing phase, will the product be good, will customer service be good? If I have any problems, how well will they be taken care of? Can I get information on the products?

Beyond that, unless there are truly unsavory practices going on (eg. a company treats its employees horribly, is environmentally irresponsible, etc) it's simply not relevant.

Essentially: I don't get you people, taking politics so seriously. Sorry, rephrase: Taking the politics of each other so seriously. Politics is serious business, but the politics of others on a forum or that I wish to do business with? Not so much.

Mar 10, 2010 at 07:31 PM

photomarvin
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p.22 #10 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

Neuffy -

My guess is it goes to the character of who Paul is. I could care less about his politics personally, but his character in these forums has been proven time and time again by his need to be so open about everything (not in a positive way).

But seriously...the date is March 10th...maybe we will see the lights by summertime...who knows...but that is what the discussion should be about...where are the Einsteins?

Mar 10, 2010 at 07:37 PM

RDKirk
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p.22 #11 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

Neuffy -

My guess is it goes to the character of who Paul is. I could care less about his politics personally, but his character in these forums has been proven time and time again by his need to be so open about everything (not in a positive way).

I agree with Neuffy, and I don't think that "character" to the extent that has been visible here matters any more than politics. "His need to be so open about everything (not in a positive way)" means nothing in terms of his products.

I've dealt with people all my life who--if they were free to act--would not share the same restaurant with me. And I know who a lot of them are. But if I refused to do business with them, I'd have to consign myself to a life of poverty. High-principled poverty, maybe, but poverty nonetheless.

Oh, well.

Mar 10, 2010 at 07:59 PM

c.d.embrey
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p.22 #12 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

E-Vener wrote:

Hopefully at some point I'd like to see what Paul and his team have done with the Einstein applied to a Zeus II pack & head system, ...

I really, really, really despise monoblocks! But I've pre-ordered an Einstein to test. So a pack system with Einstein technology would be much more interesting to me. I'd be first in line to get two 1280s. BTW while we are dreaming, how about copying the Balcar C Heads (focusable) http://photo.balcar.com/cseries.html for this system.

... but I also recognize that pack and head systems area small slice of even the narrow market segment made up of working high end commercial photographers.

Except for a very few Hensel/Elinchrom users, I know no-one who uses monoblocks in SoCal. But I don't know everyone

Mar 10, 2010 at 08:05 PM

Paul Buff
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p.22 #13 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

Zeus accounts for 2% of our sales. There are some circles that swear by power pack systems, but the vast majority of the photo world we deal with demand monolights, and I agree with them. Centralized systems may have advantages for some, but for most, monolights allow far more ease of placement and control and freedom from catastrophic failures. To try to share four channels of IGBT and wireless remote control across one bank of capacitors, with very expensive cables all over the place and serious limitations of placement is an undertaking that leads to $10,000 power packs aimed at a very narrow segment of the marketplace. They are simple different market segments.

Much like the recording studio industry . . . for every major five million dollar ultra pro studio there are a hundred or a thousand small creative studios that crank out the majority of the music you listen to.

Oh, and if the information on this thread is so distasteful to some, why are the 19 pages of it? Sorry if I offend by speaking my mind openly.

Mar 10, 2010 at 08:41 PM

photomarvin
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p.22 #14 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

Paul Buff wrote:

Oh, and if the information on this thread is so distasteful to some, why are the 19 pages of it? Sorry if I offend by speaking my mind openly.

Because some would like to hear some real information regarding the Einstein...you can only read the potential specs so many times before wanting to actually see if it will deliver.

Mar 10, 2010 at 08:49 PM

Paul Buff
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p.22 #15 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

I believe there has been more information and specs on the thread than on any other thread in this forum. I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. Ask a spec question and I'll answer it.

Mar 10, 2010 at 08:55 PM

photomarvin
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p.22 #16 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

I was just commenting why the thread had gotten so long...there are or were some genuine discussions regarding the lights before the political stuff showed up...the stuff that was distateful to some.

At this point I think it is obvious the Einstein looks good on paper. So did the AB Max for that matter...time will tell if we ever get real user reviews.

Mar 10, 2010 at 09:00 PM

kenyee
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p.22 #17 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

Matt Dunn wrote:
Uhm...I live and work in Boston and have for years.

...I know in case you didn't figure that out yet. You're active enough in the Boston strobist forums to be recognizable.

Brown has nothing to do w/ how things are working in this state, but you can scroll back a page to see what I said about it. We can talk about it at the next strobist meetup if you'd like but I'm going to drop it on this thread.

Mar 10, 2010 at 09:52 PM

kenyee
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p.22 #18 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

Paul Buff wrote:
Ask a spec question and I'll answer it.

If you take apart an Einstein and replace all the caps w/ bigger ones w/ double the capacity, would it still work or would you win a Darwin award?

Sorry..just joking...trying to add some levity to the thread

Mar 10, 2010 at 09:58 PM

Paul Buff
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p.22 #19 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

kenyee wrote:
Paul Buff wrote:
Ask a spec question and I'll answer it.

If you take apart an Einstein and replace all the caps w/ bigger ones w/ double the capacity, would it still work or would you win a Darwin award?

Sorry..just joking...trying to add some levity to the thread

If you doubled the capacitance that would change all the flash durations, ionization VS decay time and output, so all the lookup tables that determine color and duration and power would have to be reprogrammed and the recycle time would double. To maintain the same recycle time the multiplier capacitors would have to double as would the input current and heat generation. So you would need to double the cooling capacity, To maintain the same flash durations at a doubled power level you would need to double the number of IGBTs (which aren't cheap) and reinforce the current carrying capacity of the flashtube connectors to allow the increase in peak flashtube current to approximately 4000 Amps.

Of course you would need to double the capacitances per cubic inch and such capacitors don't exist so you would have to create a larger housing. You would also need to go to a quartz flashtube, which would increase the cost significantly and would increase the amount of UV output. But you would gain shorter t.1 times for a given WS setting as a result of the mechanics of the IGBT control process. If anyone seriously wants to know why this is the case I would be happy to explain further.

So. I answered the question whether posed seriously or not and assume at least one reader actually gained some technical information in the process.

Mar 10, 2010 at 10:24 PM

c.d.embrey
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p.22 #20 · Einsteins 640....Dec??

Paul Buff wrote:
Zeus accounts for 2% of our sales.

If you had an Einstein/Zeus system I think your sales would go up. There really is no compelling reason to buy Zeus instead of DynaLite, etc. The Einstein specs would be a real reason.

There are some circles that swear by power pack systems, ... Centralized systems may have advantages for some, but for most, monolights allow far more ease of placement and control ... They are simple different market segments.

I and many shooters I know use one pack per light About the only time I plug multiple lights into a pack is when I'm doing tabletop work. Or when lighting a white background, one pack on each side and two lights in each pack (BTW both lights on one stand).

To light a model on a white cyc I use three packs and a bounce. That's two Acute2 1200Rs and one D4 1200R (for the key), plus 5 flash heads and modifiers.

A Profoto Acute2 1200 sells for $1,468.00 at B&H, an Acute2 1200-R is $1,897.00. Could you make and sell a Einsetei/Zeus for the same or less and still make the profit you want in these smaller quantities?

Mar 10, 2010 at 10:30 PM

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