Diavolo wrote:
What's stopping you from going to another maker? If you don't like how things are being handled, especially after "This project has changed shape and name many time and was apparently improperly planned," why would you stick around and wait?
I have no rush to upgrade. I don't see why I should agree unconditionally with a manufacturer's process just because I own his product. Others do, good for them. It's the manufacturer decision to expose his problems on the forum in details and I don't see why I have to agree 100% with anything he writes.
RDKirk wrote:
"Involved" and "take responsibility" are two different things. Buff is definitely involved, and has made a point of publically testyfing to his involvement. He has also publically testifeid as to "what happened" to a degree seldom seen--even without being summoned to Congress.
I would imagine anyone who originate a project, designs it, change it at any time, decides on each parts, controls engineering, control sales tactics, is the sole representative on forums and who knows where else and is solely deciding on pricing, yes, all this and more would be somehow "responsible" for something (I would really say everything), but I'm willing to agree with your term "Involved" or even "highly involved". Oookaayyyy
I would imagine anyone who originate a project, designs it, change it at any time, decides on each parts, controls engineering, control sales tactics, is the sole representative on forums and who knows where else and is solely deciding on pricing, yes, all this and more would be somehow "responsible" for something (I would really say everything), but I'm willing to agree with your term "Involved" or even "highly involved". Oookaayyyy
"Involved" was not my term, "involved" was your term.
I would say that Buff has taken responsibility for the delays--certainly by describing that his "involvement" is as detailed as you describe. He's at least "taken ownership" (yet another term) of everything that happens in the Einstein project.
He can always point out "stuff happens," but he can't actually give anyone else on his staff responsibility for "stuff happening" at this point--if he failed to have a backup for everything essential, including any staff member, even including a backup manager, it's still clear to everyone that he was responsible for the failure because he's exposed that he retains authority over how everything happens.
In the US Navy, up until a few years ago, it was a straightforward fact that if the ship ever ran aground, the skipper lost his job. It was irrelevant that the skipper never does the driving. It was irrelevant that the skipper might not have even been on the bridge at the time. If the skipper was ever awakened in his bunk by a hard "thud," he automatically knew that was the sound of his career hitting the ground. The skipper is responsible because he had authority for ship operations.
RDKirk wrote:
"Involved" was not my term, "involved" was your term.
I would say that Buff has taken responsibility for the delays--certainly by describing that his "involvement" is as detailed as you describe. He's at least "taken ownership" (yet another term) of everything that happens in the Einstein project.
He can always point out "stuff happens," but he can't actually give anyone else on his staff responsibility for "stuff happening" at this point--if he failed to have a backup for everything essential, including any staff member, even including a backup manager, it's still clear to everyone that he was responsible for the failure because he's exposed that he retains authority over how everything happens.
In the US Navy, up until a few years ago, it was a straightforward fact that if the ship ever ran aground, the skipper lost his job. It was irrelevant that the skipper never does the driving. It was irrelevant that the skipper might not have even been on the bridge at the time. If the skipper was ever awakened in his bunk by a hard "thud," he automatically knew that was the sound of his career hitting the ground. The skipper is responsible because he had authority for ship operations....Show more →
Yes I used "involved" first, only because you did not seem to agree with my first "responsible". Now you agree with both! I'm not sure what prompted the Star Trek comment in the first place. For info, Buff compared himself with CEOs of other companies (I am not the typical corporation owner/executiveor CEO). I have no clue what Star Trek had to do here. "Stuff happen" is a pretty weak description. When a supplier makes weekly mistakes for month and keep getting paid for it, that is not falling in any "stuff happens" category. Not my concerned either, but what is really posted on the forum is that those guys are slowing down the process. Well may be they should have been replaced, I don't know. You write "he can't actually give anyone else on his staff responsibility for "stuff happening"". He hired them, he clearly post they are slowing down, Posting poor performance of a supplier on a forum and stating that he has taken ownership of everything that happens in the Einstein project that is pretty contradictory to me.
photomarvin wrote:
Am I the only one that doubts we will see the Einstein anytime soon?
A working version been shown publicly at PPA's ImagingUSA conference in NAshville back in January, and PCB has been sending me and a couple of other people test shots made wit hone for a couple of months. So I really do think this is just a production timing issue. My thinking is that Paul C. Buff and Co, will be shipping it in March 2010. I have zero doubts that PCB would really, really like to have had it in people's hands by last December.
It's not very sexy and I didn't get to flash it, but I did get to remove everything removable and move everything movable. I think externally most people will conclude it's more of an evolutionary leap with roots in AB rather than WL, but all of the changes appear positive.
I'm not a big fan of buttons--I prefer knobs--but at least these are real mechanical buttons and not membrane bumps (which always break, in my experience). The indicator panel on the rear is the same LCD as that of the CyberCommander--small characters, but very bright and sharp.
My thinking is that Paul C. Buff and Co, will be shipping it in March 2010. I have zero doubts that PCB would really, really like to have had it in people's hands by last December.
That's for sure. I don't think anyone is more annoyed at the delay than he is. After all, he's got an investment tied up that hasn't started bringing in a return when he told his accountant it would.
MauriceBlair wrote:
He hired them, he clearly post they are slowing down, Posting poor performance of a supplier on a forum and stating that he has taken ownership of everything that happens in the Einstein project that is pretty contradictory to me.
I fail to see what is contradictory about a company owner taking responsibility for whatever happens in his company and products. Would you mind posting what you believe would be more proper in this regard?
Paul Buff wrote:
I fail to see what is contradictory about a company owner taking responsibility for whatever happens in his company and products. Would you mind posting what you believe would be more proper in this regard?
Your question only partially take account of what I wrote and cannot be answered formulated this way.
This may help you better understand:
I could see it if you wrote something like "those guys are slowing me down and I am looking to replace them, I picked the wrong guys". That to me would be much more like showing responsibility. All you say is they are making mistake weekly. Do we want to know they are not up to the task? That, to me falls clearly into excuses, not wanting to take the blame.
Some guys see transparency in your detailed explanations. I see explanations, I don't see any transparency but a lot of pointing out. Last excuse I've read is that Mike was ill. Well ok, that happens, move on, get the next person in line or have a back up system pre set. Do we need to know there is no back up plan and that issue has to be addressed publicly to move on? Your previous long post is full of details on the problems you encounter with suppliers. Chad is not up to the task, the consultant either, plus you say they have professional jealousy issues, suppliers are making mistakes weekly, blablabla... almost three years of that and still finding reasons for delays. When I read all this, I can't conclude you are taking responsibility. Well, you are ultimately as RDKirk confirmed, I just don't read it in your long post.
I don't care how long it takes, I'm fine with waiting. I just don't feel like hearing these type of excuses..
And, by the way, IBM, your reference, and all those large corporations, for the most part build product for masses. Volume of sales and low cost of production are what generate their profit. This is pretty much what your company does and I think you are more comparable to those than many of your competitors. Your sales techniques may be different, but straight businesswise, the concept is the same as IBM.
You know, I find it pretty odd that RDKirk did not jump at my last post since he posted after me and to find you sort of replying to my first post.
I would like to add that I think the responsible way to react to this situation would be to do everything in one's power to get a working product out the door as promised and spend much less time on online forums defending one's ego. This is after all about Paul Buff brand lights not Paul Buff. As stated before this is not the kind of company I would like to continue doing business with. Customers need to come before ego.
MauriceBlair wrote:
And, by the way, IBM, your reference, and all those large corporations, for the most part build product for masses. Volume of sales and low cost of production are what generate their profit. This is pretty much what your company does and I think you are more comparable to those than many of your competitors. Your sales techniques may be different, but straight businesswise, the concept is the same as IBM.
I suspect, from your statement, that you have not worked for "those large corporations", particularly IBM. If you had, you would see/know the significant differences between them and PCB.
Second, problems and/or parts shortages occur in all development projects. Most mask this by not announcing their plans. Paul has decided to share his plans. Whether you do or not share your plans is a double edge sword, no matter which path you choose. I prefer to be aware of the plans...and I expect that there may be delays or changes. If you are not comfortable with that, it is OK...you can choose to not listen or make your plans as if you had no knowledge...your choice.
Yes I used "involved" first, only because you did not seem to agree with my first "responsible". Now you agree with both! I'm not sure what prompted the Star Trek comment in the first place.
That was because you're describing a set of business practices that occur only in an ideal fantasy universe.
For info, Buff compared himself with CEOs of other companies (I am not the typical corporation owner/executiveor CEO).
He's more more hands-on with his products than most CEOs, and is more accessible to customers than most CEOs. Have you ever been able to contact a CEO and say, "Hey, I have an idea for a modification..." or "Hey, how about a price break..." and have that CEO respond, "Sounds like a good idea...I'll do it." I've seen that happen online with Buff.
"Stuff happen" is a pretty weak description. When a supplier makes weekly mistakes for month and keep getting paid for it, that is not falling in any "stuff happens" category. <snip>He hired them, he clearly post they are slowing down, Posting poor performance of a supplier on a forum and stating that he has taken ownership of everything that happens in the Einstein project that is pretty contradictory to me.
You're back in that fantasy universe again. Once a company is deep within a project with a supplier of a custom-designed, custom-manufacturerd part, or even a component that isn't easily available from other suppliers, they can't just say, "You're fired" and walk across the street.
They wind up stringing along with the delays because most likely, the delay will be shorter than opening contract negotiations with an entirely new supplier. At least you intially hope it will. Sometimes it turns out otherwise, but the message in the tea leaves was murky.
photomarvin wrote:
Customers need to come before ego.
I tend to be more interested in the product and what it will do for me. If the new lights do what I want at a price I will pay, I'll buy them. I've actually preordered two so I can see what they'll do for me. If I don't think they give me more capability than what I already have, I'll return.
photomarvin wrote:
I would like to add that I think the responsible way to react to this situation would be to do everything in one's power to get a working product out the door as promised and spend much less time on online forums defending one's ego.
i think that 99% of all truly great products have a robust ego driving the development and pushing to create a product that defines it's market.
rarely does a marketing driven product development have more than what is necessary to satisfy the demographic that the marketing team perceived their market to be, and most of the time it fails to even satisfy them. development by survey and committee is a popular business model because it avoids risk and absolves individuals from blame.
I think this issue really needs to be put to bed, hat's off to you Paul. Again we all would like to have had the product in December, but that was not the case. So let's all be patient let Paul do his thing to ensure a smooth production, when that occurs. All the wanna be CEO's go start and run your own company so others can then tell you how to run it and be disappointed in you.
DoogieH wrote:
I think this issue really needs to be put to bed, hat's off to you Paul. Again we all would like to have had the product in December, but that was not the case. So let's all be patient let Paul do his thing to ensure a smooth production, when that occurs. All the wanna be CEO's go start and run your own company so others can then tell you how to run it and be disappointed in you.
