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d700user Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #1 · Octa Softbox or Square Softbox? Thank you for your answers for my previous post so that I have decided to buy Elinchrom BX 500 Ri strobe. My next question will be related to the softbox which is attached to the strobe for key light. Let me still introduce myself first. I am an amateur photographer interested in fashion, glamour and portrait. I want to do full length portrait or fashion sometimes(20% chance). My 2 car garage will be my studio. The following is my questions: 1. Octa Softbox or Square Softbox? 2. If Octa, is Rotalux 53-Inch Junior Octagonal Softbox with 2 Diffusers ok to handle full length portrait? (Amateur Standard) 3. For square one, the biggest square softbox I found on their website is 43”x 35”. Is it ok to handle full length (Amateur Standard)? If not, is there any other brand’s softbox which is able to fit in Elinchrom BX 500 Ri strobe? Since my ceiling is 9.5' high, is it ok for a 53"~60" Octa box? Nov 10, 2009 at 01:41 AM

Carmen Miranda Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #2 · Octa Softbox or Square Softbox? The following is my questions: 1. Octa Softbox or Square Softbox? Octa for round catchlights and greater dispersion. Square for more edge control, ganging or maximum surface area. The Deep Octa is somewhat unique offering greater light control than a typical octa however; this I find very desirable in many situations, particularly in a smaller studio environment. 2. If Octa, is Rotalux 53-Inch Junior Octagonal Softbox with 2 Diffusers ok to handle full length portrait? (Amateur Standard) Yes, although I believe this box needs lots of room because of it's wide dispersion. 3. For square one, the biggest square softbox I found on their website is 43”x 35”. Is it ok to handle full length (Amateur Standard)? If not, is there any other brand’s softbox which is able to fit in Elinchrom BX 500 Ri strobe? Yes, it can work for full length when pulled back, it is also easier to flag and control than the 53" Octa. A "square" sofbox this size may not be my favorite modifier, but is certainly the most versatile and easy to control of the large softboxes you are considering. Almost any brand softbox will work with Elinchrom lights with the appropriate speed ring. The same cannot be said for the Rotalux boxes however, which only work with Elinchrom and ProFoto lights because of their clever and fast integral mount. Although Elinchrom softboxes are one of the biggest advantages to their system, other manufacturers like Chimera, Westcott and Photoflex to name just a few, make excellent softboxes too. I love my Rotaluxes, but one advantage to the others is that grids are readily available for them. This is a big plus in a small studio, especially with larger boxes, but be forewarned, they come at a high price. Since my ceiling is 9.5' high, is it ok for a 53"~60" Octa box? IMO, you will not fully realize their benefits without dealing with many serious light control issues. Light angles will be much more restricted with an Octa than a large recta softbox, which can be turned on it's side. And with ceilings this high, you essentially confine a 60" Octa to a height where center is barely above eye level for many standing adults. Good luck. Nov 10, 2009 at 09:25 AM

cgardner Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #3 · Octa Softbox or Square Softbox? 1. Do you want round or square catchlights? 2. Coverage wise yes, but can you get the center of the modifier 3 feet over the head of your subject? The angle of the key light relative to the bridge of the nose (not the camera axis) is what controls the pattern of contrast on the face. We are accustomed to seeing faces illuminated at a downward angle of about 45 degrees because that's the angle outdoor an indoor ambient sources come from on average. The brain matches that downward pattern of contrast with memories of real objects seen in person to create the impress the 2D pattern of contrast is a 3D object. So in a nutshell if you want your lighting to look natural and "normal" you need to position the key light in ways that mimic the angle of the natural light relative to the face. 3. Yes. Remember when shooting full length you won't have the light as close as in a solo portrait because of cropping issues. Also making the overall lighting pattern look hard or soft isn't just a function of how big the key light is. Fill plays a more significant role in the perception of softness, which is triggered mostly by the tone of the shadows. Whether you add fill first or last the key light winds up overlapping it: that is how contrast is able to be varied. So when you want soft looking lighting, you simply need to start with more fill. Bigger isn't always better with modifiers. The main reason to use a softbox vs an umbrella is to control spill. When shooting on a dark background you want to minimize distractions from the face by making the clothing and background darker so the face contrasts. Use a huge modifier in your living room and you'll have so much spill bouncing around you will not be able to control the shadows - where the light doesn't go - which is part of what makes portrait shot on a low-key dark background effective. If shooting on a white background a lot of spill of the walls and ceiling is a good thing because it helps even out the lighting. The thing to realize about shooting on white is that color contrast plays as much a role in attracting the eye to the face as tone. That explains why the more effective lighting strategies on white are relatively flat (e.g. ring light, centered "butterfly" pattern) or make the side of the face brighter than the front (e.g. broad lighting). Short light a face on white and the brighter profiled far side of the face will tend to blend in and disappear into the background. If those are concepts you aren't familiar with yet then to some extent you are throwing equipment at a problem you don't yet fully understand. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I think in this case you might get a SB which is too large it position effectively due to your ceiling height. Like Star Trek, space is the final frontier in studio work. If you don't have the space it limits what you can light effectively. Chuck Nov 10, 2009 at 12:29 PM

RDKirk Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #4 · Octa Softbox or Square Softbox? Do you want round or square catchlights? I want square catchlights indoors and round catchlights outdoors. So there. Nov 10, 2009 at 01:12 PM

Conner999 Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: On p.1 #5 · Octa Softbox or Square Softbox? Couple of thoughts : 1. The DO is very nice, flexible, more directional than normal octa when just using inner diffuser or with just one of the Eli deflectors, but when open, it's a LONG WIDE tube. Things like moving it thru doorways, etc when open can be "interesting". 2. Rectangular or square catch lights can look like a window reflection, an octagonal one not so much. Some folks hate anything but round(ish) catch lights, but sometimes square/rect is nice. 3. I like Rotalux units, but if I were to do over (which I may be doing), I would buy 3rd party such as Chimera, Photoflex, Creative Light (aka Profoto), etc. The Rota units open and close easily and are reasonably priced, but if you want grids - forget it. I never thought grids were that big a deal or worth the silly $$ they go for -- until I got one for my Mola Demi. Instant hook. The small Rotalux is the only one with a grid, but the grid and front diffuser are one unit. Am contemplating looking at moving to Profoto lights and while (if I do so) I'll will get a Profot-Eli adapter, I'll will gradually shift many of my SBs over to 3rd party grid-enabled units. 4. Rota boxes do not normally have a recessed front lip (thus the challenge mounting a grid) - thus losing some spill control vs a recessed-front units. You can get a lip/hood for many of them, but like the grid, the diffuser and lip are one unit. So using the lip or grid alone with say one of the Eli deflectors or with just an inner diffuser is a no-go. Most 3rd party boxes are recessed and Creative light (made by Profoto) offer both models in most sizes - but they never seem to be in stock (yet) at places like B&H. Lips allow some spill control and ability to easily attach a grid with velcro. Flush front gives more spill - and easy ability to stack to boxes to make one larger source. The Rotalux units are nice boxes, but they, like most, have pluses and minuses. Before making a decision I'd look at ALL the options out there, decide what features, if anything you're willing to pay a premium for (e.g. durability, grids, ease of opening, size, unique light quality, etc) -- and try and think a couple of steps ahead of where you'd want your lighting to be in X months/years - without going nuts days 1. Absolutely no harm in mixing and matching across manufacturers and price points - and thus keeping your options open, especially if you ever decide to change light brands. With a few exceptions, given what they are, do, and are made of, it's not exactly like they're speciality tech. While you'll be limited as CM said in ability to flex the 53" Octa with lower ceilings, it is a nice modifier and also makes a nice white background for head & shoulders shots. Edited on Nov 10, 2009 at 01:36 PM · View previous versions Nov 10, 2009 at 01:21 PM

cgardner Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #6 · Octa Softbox or Square Softbox? RDKirk wrote: Do you want round or square catchlights? I want square catchlights indoors and round catchlights outdoors. So there. Then buy a square SB and a circle mask, or a round SB with a square mask I use a med. 24 x 32 Photoflex with a 20" circle mask for solo/couple photos on dark backgrounds because I like round catchlights all the time, and the way the circle vignettes the light on the body. Nov 10, 2009 at 01:22 PM

Conner999 Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: On p.1 #7 · Octa Softbox or Square Softbox? Always been curious how effective that was. I'm assuming you find the masks nice and secure, durable? Nov 10, 2009 at 01:39 PM

cgardner Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #8 · Octa Softbox or Square Softbox? Conner999 wrote: Always been curious how effective that was. I'm assuming you find the masks nice and secure, durable? The Photoflex MultiDome Q39 came with a circle mask, and when I bought mine B&H was bundling the $99 accessory kit with louvers and strip mask for free. The SB has the "loop" side of velcro all around the inside lip, and the accessories have the "hook" part so connection without gaps is simple. Grids connect the same way. For my hair light I use a small 16 x 22 Mulitdome with a circle mask and 40 - degree egg crate grid. Nov 10, 2009 at 01:57 PM

d700user Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #9 · Octa Softbox or Square Softbox? Carmen Miranda wrote: The following is my questions: 1. Octa Softbox or Square Softbox? Octa for round catchlights and greater dispersion. Square for more edge control, ganging or maximum surface area. The Deep Octa is somewhat unique offering greater light control than a typical octa however; this I find very desirable in many situations, particularly in a smaller studio environment. 2. If Octa, is Rotalux 53-Inch Junior Octagonal Softbox with 2 Diffusers ok to handle full length portrait? (Amateur Standard) Yes, although I believe this box needs lots of room because of it's wide dispersion. 3. For square one, the biggest square softbox I found on their website is 43”x 35”. Is it ok to handle full length (Amateur Standard)? If not, is there any other brand’s softbox which is able to fit in Elinchrom BX 500 Ri strobe? Yes, it can work for full length when pulled back, it is also easier to flag and control than the 53" Octa. A "square" sofbox this size may not be my favorite modifier, but is certainly the most versatile and easy to control of the large softboxes you are considering. Almost any brand softbox will work with Elinchrom lights with the appropriate speed ring. The same cannot be said for the Rotalux boxes however, which only work with Elinchrom and ProFoto lights because of their clever and fast integral mount. Although Elinchrom softboxes are one of the biggest advantages to their system, other manufacturers like Chimera, Westcott and Photoflex to name just a few, make excellent softboxes too. I love my Rotaluxes, but one advantage to the others is that grids are readily available for them. This is a big plus in a small studio, especially with larger boxes, but be forewarned, they come at a high price. Since my ceiling is 9.5' high, is it ok for a 53"~60" Octa box? IMO, you will not fully realize their benefits without dealing with many serious light control issues. Light angles will be much more restricted with an Octa than a large recta softbox, which can be turned on it's side. And with ceilings this high, you essentially confine a 60" Octa to a height where center is barely above eye level for many standing adults. Good luck. Thank you very much. Your suggestion is extremely helpful for me to make a decision for what kind of softbox I should buy. Nov 10, 2009 at 07:06 PM

d700user Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #10 · Octa Softbox or Square Softbox? cgardner wrote: 1. Do you want round or square catchlights? 2. Coverage wise yes, but can you get the center of the modifier 3 feet over the head of your subject? The angle of the key light relative to the bridge of the nose (not the camera axis) is what controls the pattern of contrast on the face. We are accustomed to seeing faces illuminated at a downward angle of about 45 degrees because that's the angle outdoor an indoor ambient sources come from on average. The brain matches that downward pattern of contrast with memories of real objects seen in person to create the impress the 2D pattern of contrast is a 3D object. So in a nutshell if you want your lighting to look natural and "normal" you need to position the key light in ways that mimic the angle of the natural light relative to the face. 3. Yes. Remember when shooting full length you won't have the light as close as in a solo portrait because of cropping issues. Also making the overall lighting pattern look hard or soft isn't just a function of how big the key light is. Fill plays a more significant role in the perception of softness, which is triggered mostly by the tone of the shadows. Whether you add fill first or last the key light winds up overlapping it: that is how contrast is able to be varied. So when you want soft looking lighting, you simply need to start with more fill. Bigger isn't always better with modifiers. The main reason to use a softbox vs an umbrella is to control spill. When shooting on a dark background you want to minimize distractions from the face by making the clothing and background darker so the face contrasts. Use a huge modifier in your living room and you'll have so much spill bouncing around you will not be able to control the shadows - where the light doesn't go - which is part of what makes portrait shot on a low-key dark background effective. If shooting on a white background a lot of spill of the walls and ceiling is a good thing because it helps even out the lighting. The thing to realize about shooting on white is that color contrast plays as much a role in attracting the eye to the face as tone. That explains why the more effective lighting strategies on white are relatively flat (e.g. ring light, centered "butterfly" pattern) or make the side of the face brighter than the front (e.g. broad lighting). Short light a face on white and the brighter profiled far side of the face will tend to blend in and disappear into the background. If those are concepts you aren't familiar with yet then to some extent you are throwing equipment at a problem you don't yet fully understand. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I think in this case you might get a SB which is too large it position effectively due to your ceiling height. Like Star Trek, space is the final frontier in studio work. If you don't have the space it limits what you can light effectively. Chuck Thank you for letting me know how the light works. It's very helpful. Nov 10, 2009 at 07:29 PM

d700user Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #11 · Octa Softbox or Square Softbox? Conner999 wrote: Couple of thoughts : 1. The DO is very nice, flexible, more directional than normal octa when just using inner diffuser or with just one of the Eli deflectors, but when open, it's a LONG WIDE tube. Things like moving it thru doorways, etc when open can be "interesting". 2. Rectangular or square catch lights can look like a window reflection, an octagonal one not so much. Some folks hate anything but round(ish) catch lights, but sometimes square/rect is nice. 3. I like Rotalux units, but if I were to do over (which I may be doing), I would buy 3rd party such as Chimera, Photoflex, Creative Light (aka Profoto), etc. The Rota units open and close easily and are reasonably priced, but if you want grids - forget it. I never thought grids were that big a deal or worth the silly $$ they go for -- until I got one for my Mola Demi. Instant hook. The small Rotalux is the only one with a grid, but the grid and front diffuser are one unit. Am contemplating looking at moving to Profoto lights and while (if I do so) I'll will get a Profot-Eli adapter, I'll will gradually shift many of my SBs over to 3rd party grid-enabled units. 4. Rota boxes do not normally have a recessed front lip (thus the challenge mounting a grid) - thus losing some spill control vs a recessed-front units. You can get a lip/hood for many of them, but like the grid, the diffuser and lip are one unit. So using the lip or grid alone with say one of the Eli deflectors or with just an inner diffuser is a no-go. Most 3rd party boxes are recessed and Creative light (made by Profoto) offer both models in most sizes - but they never seem to be in stock (yet) at places like B&H. Lips allow some spill control and ability to easily attach a grid with velcro. Flush front gives more spill - and easy ability to stack to boxes to make one larger source. The Rotalux units are nice boxes, but they, like most, have pluses and minuses. Before making a decision I'd look at ALL the options out there, decide what features, if anything you're willing to pay a premium for (e.g. durability, grids, ease of opening, size, unique light quality, etc) -- and try and think a couple of steps ahead of where you'd want your lighting to be in X months/years - without going nuts days 1. Absolutely no harm in mixing and matching across manufacturers and price points - and thus keeping your options open, especially if you ever decide to change light brands. With a few exceptions, given what they are, do, and are made of, it's not exactly like they're speciality tech. While you'll be limited as CM said in ability to flex the 53" Octa with lower ceilings, it is a nice modifier and also makes a nice white background for head & shoulders shots. I was also noticed that there is no grid for Rotalux softbox except for 70cmx70cm one. Since you said the grid is an important thing, I would probably go for Photoflex Large LiteDome 36"x48". Thank you very much for the suggestions. Nov 10, 2009 at 09:31 PM

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