My EOS 7D review published!

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Archive 2009 · My EOS 7D review published!

alundeb
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p.2 #1 · My EOS 7D review published!

Dawei Ye wrote:
Imaging Resource comparisons are useless imo since it's all noise reduced to hell

If you look at the online images yes, but here I downloaded the raw files and processed them with NR turned completely off.

Nov 07, 2009 at 07:28 AM

WilliamG
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p.2 #2 · My EOS 7D review published!

Roland Lim wrote:
I have finally finished my user review of the 7D. It has taken much longer than I originally anticipated due to various factors. Those who have had my previous reviews on the 40D and 50D will know my style of review. I hope it will help those still on the fence.

You can read the full review here:-
http://rolandlim.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/canon-eos-7d-review/

Great review, Roland! This mirrored my findings with the 7D vs my 5D II. I ended up returning the 7D as it just wasn't....well... a 5DII.

Ultimate camera for NOW = 5DII with the 7D's AF system and controls.

Oh I wish...

Nov 07, 2009 at 03:41 PM

AGeoJO
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p.2 #3 · My EOS 7D review published!

WilliamG wrote:
Ultimate camera for NOW = 5DII with the 7D's AF system and controls.

Is that not what they call "1Ds MarkIII"

Nov 07, 2009 at 03:55 PM

WilliamG
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p.2 #4 · My EOS 7D review published!

Nope AGeoJO. I want video, a high-res display, toggle-able grid lines in view-finder on the new transmissive display etc in a small form factor. 1DsMKIII is also a little much money for some of us, and starting to feel a bit dated in terms of pure "technology."

Now the 1Ds MKIV, whenever it shows up, is calling my name... must... resist....

Nov 07, 2009 at 04:20 PM

mfurman
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p.2 #5 · My EOS 7D review published!

I can already hear sounds of fire (flames everywhere) but can we please have a simple camera with good FF sensor, good focus, good viewfinder and nothing else (for instance - no video)!?

Nov 07, 2009 at 05:22 PM

kewlcanon
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p.2 #6 · My EOS 7D review published!

1Ds Mark III ohhhh now it's too expensive....what is your excuse this time ?.

mfurman wrote:
I can already hear sounds of fire (flames everywhere) but can we please have a simple camera with good FF sensor, good focus, good viewfinder and nothing else (for instance - no video)!?

Nov 07, 2009 at 05:32 PM

mfurman
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p.2 #7 · My EOS 7D review published!

kewlcanon wrote:
1Ds Mark III ohhhh now it's too expensive....what is your excuse this time ?.

As a matter of fact it is on top of my list but still a bit too expensive for me and too big. I hear some complaints about outer focus points and fast lens focusing issues.

Nov 07, 2009 at 05:37 PM

kewlcanon
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p.2 #8 · My EOS 7D review published!

Well that's it....I guarantee you won't buy ANY camera for the next 20 years...well maybe P&S.

mfurman wrote:
kewlcanon wrote:
1Ds Mark III ohhhh now it's too expensive....what is your excuse this time ?.

As a matter of fact it is on top of my list but still a bit too expensive for me and too big. I hear some complaints about outer focus points and fast lens focusing issues.

Nov 07, 2009 at 05:42 PM

Roland Lim
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p.2 #9 · My EOS 7D review published!

n0b0 wrote:
I wonder if perhaps the 5D2 samples in the review look noticeably sharper because it's been sized down to 7D resolution?

I knew I should not have been lazy, and should have made a set of comparison with 7D upsized to match 5D II resolution. I have actually made such a comparison on my computer, and I can tell you the results I got was just the same, but 5D Mark II crops still looked significantly sharper than those from 7D. I will try to add that section in the review later when I have time.

Nov 08, 2009 at 02:05 AM

Roland Lim
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p.2 #10 · My EOS 7D review published!

alundeb wrote:
A very extensive review, Roland, thanks for posting!

I have a couple of questions, hope you have time to answer

What NR and sharpening settings did you use in the RAW conversion?

In the comparison vs 5DII, ISO 100, how would you explain that the white on red details in the background of the crops look sharper for the 7D than the 5DII? Or maybe I'm wrong. The details in the red in the background, lower left, looks at least as detailed for the 7D, but more sharpened for the 5DII.

Thanks in advance.

No sharpening and noise reduction were applied to any of the images during and after RAW conversion for all 3 cameras.

The red background was a red color table runner and yes, on the 7D crops, the red table runner did looked sharper. The reason is simple. The same lens on the 7D when moved back to a point to allow the same FOV with 5D Mark II has more depth of field. The 5D Mark II has appreciably shallower DOF even at f8.

Nov 08, 2009 at 02:15 AM

Roland Lim
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p.2 #11 · My EOS 7D review published!

Leslie168 wrote:
wow

just know you are from china ?

pity still can not open the link you show above...

Unfortunately, main China blocks many of blog sites like wordpress. However, you get try use one of the many free proxy sties around to bypass the block and you will then be able to read my review or almost any other sites blocked by China.

Nov 08, 2009 at 02:19 AM

Roland Lim
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p.2 #12 · My EOS 7D review published!

garyvot wrote:
Nice review Roland. I noted this:

The 5D Mark II images looked significantly sharper with better local contrast at all ISO. In theory, there should not be a great difference in perceived resolution between the 18MP sensor of the 7D and 21.1 MP sensor of the 5D Mark II. I do not know why the 5D Mark II images look sharper, but if I were to guess, I think maybe the 5D Mark II has a significantly weaker anti-aliasing filter than the 7D and that could be the reason why the 5D Mark II images looked sharper.

There are a couple of things I've observed in my own testing: If using DPP, at the default settings some NR is applied to 7D files even at ISO 100. This is not the case for 5D2 files. However, I think this only accounts for part of the difference.

The other factor seems to be RAW conversion algorithms. For some reaosn, Capture One Pro 5 seems to produce significantly sharper output from the 7D, with better micro-contrast, at low ISO than DPP with all NR disabled. See alundeb's comment above; there is also some discussion of this on this thread: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/829160/0?keyword=capture,one#7700355

Based on this I'd certainly recommend that all 7D owners at least take a look at the the Capture One 5 trial.

Capture One Pro 5 was only released after I finished processing all the comparison shots. So I did not use it for the review. However, I have tested it myself and although 7D files processed by Capture One Pro 5 does llok a bit better at 100% view than by DPP, especially concerning local contrast, the 5D Mark II crops processed by Capture One Pro still look sharper.

Nov 08, 2009 at 02:22 AM

Nick Nishizaka
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p.2 #13 · My EOS 7D review published!

Nothing really new...but nice review and thanks for putting in the work.

I would have to agree with the few that I own both bodies, and I don't see as drastic a difference in terms of sharpness, resolving power, etc...

Nov 08, 2009 at 05:44 AM

jorkata
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p.2 #14 · My EOS 7D review published!

Camera Labs have published their review as well.

Here's the ISO comparison - 50D vs 7D vs 5DII:
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_7D/noise_RAW.shtml

Nov 08, 2009 at 06:34 AM

alundeb
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p.2 #15 · My EOS 7D review published!

There is a major confusion going on about the resolution and sharpness of the 7D.

Most of this confusion is related to RAW converters like DPP and ACR that renders images from the 7D soft because there is something not yet fully understood about the green channels spectral response difference.

The microcontrast can be enhanced by sharpening in posts, but testers don't do that, because they need to keep the baseline for comparison. For the 7D this goes wrong, because of the special algorithms required to handle the green channel imbalance.

The only review so far that doesn't destroy the inherent sharpness of the 7D, is from imgaing-resource.com. They have RAW files available for download.

Then most tests are done at aperture F8 for both FF and APS-C cameras. The sharpness of the 50/1.4 peaks at F/4, this is measured by photozone.de even with an 8MP APS-C sensor. The sharpness of the 70-200/4 IS peaks at F/5.6.

Testing APS-C cameras at F/8 introduces loss in sharpness due to diffraction, and biases the results in favor of FF cameras. Even imaging-resource.com does this.

Don't believe everything you see, the 7D has full 18MP resulotion. You need to use lenses that ares sharp enough, at a small enough aperture, and processed with software that doesn't stumble over the green channel imbalance.

Nov 09, 2009 at 10:02 AM

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p.2 #16 · My EOS 7D review published!

alundeb wrote:
Most of this confusion is related to RAW converters like DPP and ACR that renders images from the 7D soft because there is something not yet fully understood about the green channels spectral response difference.

Canon is the manufacturer of both DPP and 7D. They are in the best position to fully understand the green channels spectral response difference. However, it seems the DPP images are still soft.

If Canon's software cannot deliver best IQ, we could presume the problem lies not with the software, but with the hardware.

I hope I'm wrong.

Nov 09, 2009 at 10:27 AM

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p.2 #17 · My EOS 7D review published!

alundeb wrote:
...

Testing APS-C cameras at F/8 introduces loss in sharpness due to diffraction, and biases the results in favor of FF cameras. Even imaging-resource.com does this...

I understand that from a techinical standpoint diffraction causes some degree of IQ degradation on 1.6X crop, but I highly dout that you could see the effect of diffraction at f/8 vs f/4, even looking at 100% crops.

If this is really true, then someone show me crops at f/4 and f/8 with the 7D that shows that the f/8 crops are worse.

Nov 09, 2009 at 01:27 PM

ken.vs.ryu
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p.2 #18 · My EOS 7D review published!

mfurman wrote:
I can already hear sounds of fire (flames everywhere) but can we please have a simple camera with good FF sensor, good focus, good viewfinder and nothing else (for instance - no video)!?

5d, Sony A900, A850

Nov 09, 2009 at 05:10 PM

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p.2 #19 · My EOS 7D review published!

The 5D is the closest thing to what you are looking for. If you want a better AF system you will also have to settle for HD video - as that is going to be a standard feature on all DSLRs under $3,000 whether you like/want it or not. I myself couldn't care less about the video, but I want a FF and also a good AF system. If the 5D's AF falls short of your needs, wait for the 5D Mk III - it's guaranteed to have at least 19 cross-type focussing points.

mfurman wrote:
I can already hear sounds of fire (flames everywhere) but can we please have a simple camera with good FF sensor, good focus, good viewfinder and nothing else (for instance - no video)!?

Nov 09, 2009 at 05:17 PM

michael49
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p.2 #20 · My EOS 7D review published!

ken.vs.ryu wrote:
mfurman wrote:
I can already hear sounds of fire (flames everywhere) but can we please have a simple camera with good FF sensor, good focus, good viewfinder and nothing else (for instance - no video)!?

5d, Sony A900, A850

Sorry, I like my 5d, but the AF (off center points) are just not good enough.

The A850/A900 and the D700 are the only current options.

The 1DsII/III are simply too big for my use.

Keep praying for a "3D".

Nov 09, 2009 at 05:20 PM

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p.2 #21 · My EOS 7D review published!

bobbytan wrote:
... If the 5D's AF falls short of your needs, wait for the 5D Mk III - it's guaranteed to have at least 19 cross-type focussing points.

I hope your right, but I'll believe it when I see it. I don't think many would have predicted that the 5dII woud not have had at least a partially upgraded AF.

Nov 09, 2009 at 05:21 PM

alundeb
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p.2 #22 · My EOS 7D review published!

michael49 wrote:
alundeb wrote:
...

Testing APS-C cameras at F/8 introduces loss in sharpness due to diffraction, and biases the results in favor of FF cameras. Even imaging-resource.com does this...

I understand that from a techinical standpoint diffraction causes some degree of IQ degradation on 1.6X crop, but I highly dout that you could see the effect of diffraction at f/8 vs f/4, even looking at 100% crops.

If this is really true, then someone show me crops at f/4 and f/8 with the 7D that shows that the f/8 crops are worse.

With pleasure.

If you can't see any effect of diffraction at f/8 when testing the "sharpness" of the 7D, that actually proves that something is wrong with the test. Microcontrast is most affected.

Canon EOS 7D, EF-S 60 macro, 100% crops at f/4 and f/8 processed in C1 with NR off and sharpening 180/0.8. Raw files at 2.8, 4.0, 5.6 and 8.0 are available on request if this is too hard to believe.

2012 © alundeb

Nov 09, 2009 at 06:22 PM


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