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Archive 2009 · Mac/PC debate

Adam73
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p.2 #1 · Mac/PC debate

I use Both

Edited on Nov 02, 2009 at 11:23 PM · View previous versions

Nov 02, 2009 at 10:05 PM

eggend_houston
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p.2 #2 · Mac/PC debate

$2300 buys a nice lens.

Nov 02, 2009 at 10:21 PM

bellyface
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p.2 #3 · Mac/PC debate

uh oh... I can give you a pretty unbiased opinion, but I have been on mac since the dark times of amelio, and then the clones, and then jobs back to rescue it, and all I can say is no one else can have such an innovative product, hands down. Wins awards every year. Cost comparisons show that apple is pretty comparable. The OS is very intuitive, very well integrated with the apps. I use PC's all the time, I use CS3/CS4, and everything is dag-nabbit, the same, except for the key strokes (cntrl-vs-cmnd) you will get used to it fast.

you can always load snow leopard on peecees as well. With some finangling, it can be done. Look at the near-defunct psystar company, (http://psystar.com/) they preinstall OS X. but waayyyy cheaper...

Yep, the new imac 27" is tempting, considering the fact I have a mac mini running a 30" cinema display, 16x10 aspect ratio. Boot camp is nice, if I need to preview stuff on the pc side. I'm not sure if windows 7 will be compatible with bootcamp, most likely should be. Certain apps run smoothly on PC's, like the obvious office suite, capture NX also runs pretty well.

Nov 02, 2009 at 10:28 PM

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p.2 #4 · Mac/PC debate

As another dual systems user (with a home built i7-920/12GB of RAM desktop and a 17 inch unibody MBP,) I agree with all posts claiming that OS preference is personal and that from a pure hardware perspective, you'll get more value for your money with a PC. My Mac is invaluable in the field but I use my PC as my main photo workstation. Here's why:

- As mentioned above, 64-bit Photoshop is only available for Windows. Not that it really matters when editing 12MP files, but it's nice to have.

- I find the entire CS4 interface works better with Windows. It's a better fit with Window's native multiple-document-interface strategy which CS4 mimics. Not that it's by any means unusable on the Mac, but I feel CS4's default interface and workflow settings fit well with how Windows operates. Again, a small matter.

- The ability to setup complex, internal RAID arrays is simply not possible on any Mac short of a Mac Pro, and even then it's extraordinarily expensive. While this is not necessarily a novice feature (unless you order a Dell or HP with RAID setup from the factory,) this is a very big deal. When I import photos into my PC's Lightroom archive, they're simultaneously transferred to a fast internal RAID-5 array and to an external backup drive.

- The ability to setup a RAMDisk and set Photoshop to use it as its Scratch disk provides for an enormous performance boost (far beyond what one can expect to realize by using the 64-bit version.) This can be done easily with freeware or shareware on a PC. Not sure if it can be done at all on the Mac.

- Lastly, I find tablet support to be more robust on the PC. Not that there's any difference when working in Photoshop or Capture NX2, per se, but at the OS level, handwriting and gesture support is very impressive. When connected to my PC, my tablet can fully replace my mouse. This is not hte case when I use it with my Mac.

Nov 02, 2009 at 10:31 PM

DragonflyDM
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p.2 #5 · Mac/PC debate

OK...so...which PC would you buy??

Nov 02, 2009 at 10:36 PM

Pavel
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p.2 #6 · Mac/PC debate

Until moving over to be a full time photographer I spent 12 years in IT doing several things but much of it testing.
One thing I would urge high end PC users to do is either build their own rig (and put in a expensive power supply) or go with HP. Dell is, sorry to say not very good. That is not fanboy'ism but based in the fact that HP will guarantee workstations to have certain components. Dell is a part of the day vendor. If we order 30 machines at a time we have always found one or two differences between identically spec'd machines. It could be a modified chipset ... all the way to a different motherboard! It doesn't bite you then ... but after a while when you upgrade drivers etc ... it can drive you insane.

My only objection is that people keep saying that the Mac costs more. It does not. The only issue with Mac is when you try to go cheap. They simply don't build anything particularly inexpensive in their desktops. Order an identical machine from Dell (and I mean identical) and sometimes it is 5% cheaper ... sometimes 15% more expensive.

Of course building your own is the best approach - until you have to isolate intermittently flaky hardware and try to get things fixed. My time is money and as far as photography ... I no longer want to do my old job.

Lastly ... when you want power - and you put on anti-virus software, office and a couple of other common sofware packages - there goes 15% of that power. If I had to use a PC again, I would of course use ONLY a dedicated repository/editing box. Then I would buy a second cheaper PC for the rest of it ... or that $500 Mac Mini ... so I don't have to worry about all those headaches.

We use industrial grade anti-virus software with definitions pushed down by a Server. Still ... about four times a year we get what I consider an epidemic when some virus or malware writer gets the advantage on the anti-virus software guys for a moment. Then we typically get 20-50 workstations - which we often have to re-format. I've seen people crying over the loss of 5 years worth of work. It leaves an impression on ya. We make it easy to back up ... but you know how good intentions go.

I'm certified in both systems. As much as I love the registry (sarcasm) .... I won't consider any flavor of windows anything but a poorly designed with bandaids system - until they let that lousy concept go. (btw I started pre-dos) Dll's? ditto. What a lousy concept.

But perhaps it is the fact that I am an old Unix head that draws me to Mac OSx? Or perhaps it is choice. A Mac can run windows, Mac OSX or Linux. Basically all of it - and ALL the apps. There are some Mac only editing apps that are to die for. Or perhaps it is that I have never had to re-format a Mac when I have not wanted to. It just works. And what price that?

I buy pretty good bodies and lenses. My 24 pc-e is that last one (the 14-24 f 2.8 should be here this week) and I don't mind spending good money on good glass even if a lens like the 24 is not exactly "economical" or bang for my meager bucks. I see the stuff that you gent's post pictures with. Not many vivitar lenses, I've noticed. So leave that "bang for the buck" in the same perspective, I say. It strikes my ear as funny, and fanboy rhetoric when someone here posts pictures with their 300 f 2.8 and then in a debate such as this is quick to state that the Mac is expensive. It is not ... and PC bargains in the long run, usually aren't.

In either platform it is wise to buy at the higher end. It saves on grey hair ... no matter how you slice it.

Oh never mind. I just got the latest Best buy flyer. Hey ... did you see that deal on that 399.95 Acer at best buy? I guess Mac's do suck after all.

Edited on Nov 02, 2009 at 10:46 PM · View previous versions

Nov 02, 2009 at 10:43 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #7 · Mac/PC debate

DragonflyDM wrote:
OK...so...which PC would you buy??

BUILD ONE!!!! Using good quality parts (EVGA boards)

DO NOT GO WITH DELL OR GATEWAY! Maybe HP if you can find a good deal. For laptops I go with Toshiba or HP.

Nov 02, 2009 at 10:45 PM

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p.2 #8 · Mac/PC debate

If you do wind up with another PC w/win7, make a partition for the Windows swap file, and make another partition for a Photoshop swap file. That should help you out quite a bit.

My preference for a DIY machine would include an ASUS motherboard for starters.

Nov 02, 2009 at 10:50 PM

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p.2 #9 · Mac/PC debate

The HP Z400 workstations are excellent if you are looking for a prebuilt. The on-board SATA controller supports RAID-5. Add a modest quattro video card and 6+ gigs of ram and you'll be smokin'

Nov 02, 2009 at 10:51 PM

Avi B
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p.2 #10 · Mac/PC debate

Build one. Get a good ASUS mobo, good quality RAM, i7-based processor, good graphics card and of course, good power supply. Once you get it all in there, then get win7 x64 and have a blast.

This is my plan. Sometime soon.

Nov 02, 2009 at 10:52 PM

millsart
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p.2 #11 · Mac/PC debate

DragonflyDM wrote:
OK..so then let us shift the conversation to "which PC should I be looking at?"

Dell. HP. Asus. Sony.

?

my only worry about building my own is compatibility. If anyone with experience building one wants to help me go shopping...lets go!

There really is no such thing as a Dell, HP etc anymore than its just a logo on the box

All the parts are going to be from a bunch of different companies like Asus, Gigabyte, Intel etc

I can spec out the same motherboard, video card, processor etc as Dell and have the exact same thing as a Dell, or a HP etc. They aren't using custom boards with special north and south bridges etc.

Nov 02, 2009 at 10:53 PM

Pavel
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p.2 #12 · Mac/PC debate

NightOwl Cat wrote:
If you do wind up with another PC w/win7, make a partition for the Windows swap file, and make another partition for a Photoshop swap file. That should help you out quite a bit.

My preference for a DIY machine would include an ASUS motherboard for starters.

Only do that if you have a second drive. Segmenting the windows swap on the same drive kills performance because the head has to move further. On a second drive it boosts it.

Nov 02, 2009 at 11:55 PM

DragonflyDM
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p.2 #13 · Mac/PC debate

I keep photos on separate hard drives...too many to keep in one place.

Nov 03, 2009 at 12:15 AM

DGC1
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p.2 #14 · Mac/PC debate

Bought my first Mac this year after many years of PC. It's an imac. The OS takes getting used to but isn't that tough and as has always been said, the graphics eat PC's alive. Never thought I'd be a Mac person and I hate their commercials but I truly think they have a better mouse trap.

Nov 03, 2009 at 12:22 AM

Dennis Dietz
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p.2 #15 · Mac/PC debate

Read the first page only so forgive me if this is slightly off base....

I and a couple others here on the FM boards have recommended a company called AVAdirect. They are an OEM company but with a Ma and Pa feel. When I was shopping for a PC a while back I hesitated about the normal OEM companies as they all seems to offer parts I did not want, or of a type I could not control, plus the OS is so filled with bloatware, I did not want to go down the road again. I searched several other smaller companeis and also Dell and HP. I finally found I could spend the same amount through AVA, get more bang for my buck and know that the parts I was getting were exactly what I wanted.

Sorry if that sounded ike a pitch, it really is not. I do feel that they treated me so well and where happy to answer the phone (no holds) and reply to my emails that I wanted to share a good company with others. I've had to deal with Dell support a few times (it even once took my three hours to actually buy simple monitor form them), so being able to call and have a real person with knowledge answer my questions was very nice.

Juat another option for you to look at.

Nov 03, 2009 at 12:22 AM

millsart
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p.2 #16 · Mac/PC debate

DGC1 wrote:
Bought my first Mac this year after many years of PC. It's an imac. The OS takes getting used to but isn't that tough and as has always been said, the graphics eat PC's alive. Never thought I'd be a Mac person and I hate their commercials but I truly think they have a better mouse trap.

What exactly does "eats PC's alive" mean ?

What type of video cards were you running in your previous PC so we have a baseline of what is being "eaten alive"

There are some very powerful graphics cards for PC's these days and I'd have a hard time believing just an iMac is going to blow away a well built PC

Nov 03, 2009 at 12:34 AM

DragonflyDM
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p.2 #17 · Mac/PC debate

OS Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-920 processor [2.66GHz, 1MB L2 + 8MB shared L3
Memory 9GB DDR3-1066MHz SDRAM [5 DIMMs] from 8GB edit
Hard drive 640GB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
Graphics 1GB NVIDIA GeForce GT 220 [DVI, HDMI, VGA]
drive LightScribe 16X max. DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive
Networking Premium Wireless-N LAN card and Bluetooth(R )

This set up is $1,149 at HP

I am all for buying from a smaller company, but you really have to know what you are buying. I don't know the hardware anymore.

Nov 03, 2009 at 12:38 AM

Micky Bill
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p.2 #18 · Mac/PC debate

I don't really understand this question that comes up all the time. At one time there was a reason to chose one over the other but today it really makes very little or no difference. It comes down to a $ factor, what do you want to spend, and which OS feels better to you. If you want to build it yourself that's another thing, there are a lot of DIYers on FM. You can fine tune it to meet your exclusive needs whatever they might be. You won't be constrained by either system either one will be fine.

Nov 03, 2009 at 12:49 AM

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p.2 #19 · Mac/PC debate

I needed a new laptop and decided to get a macbook pro to fill that need. Interestingly the MacBook Pro is faster running PS and LR and all the other photo aps I have than my 3.2gig duo core PC. Not scientific but the difference is noticable.

Nov 03, 2009 at 03:55 AM

Andre Labonte
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p.2 #20 · Mac/PC debate

DragonflyDM wrote:
OS Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-920 processor [2.66GHz, 1MB L2 + 8MB shared L3
Memory 9GB DDR3-1066MHz SDRAM [5 DIMMs] from 8GB edit
Hard drive 640GB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
Graphics 1GB NVIDIA GeForce GT 220 [DVI, HDMI, VGA]
drive LightScribe 16X max. DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive
Networking Premium Wireless-N LAN card and Bluetooth(R )

This set up is $1,149 at HP

I am all for buying from a smaller company, but you really have to know what you are buying. I don't know the hardware anymore.

Sounds like a nice machine. For that price, go for it.

Nov 03, 2009 at 04:00 AM

theYipster
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p.2 #21 · Mac/PC debate

Andre Labonte wrote:
DragonflyDM wrote:
OS Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-920 processor [2.66GHz, 1MB L2 + 8MB shared L3
Memory 9GB DDR3-1066MHz SDRAM [5 DIMMs] from 8GB edit
Hard drive 640GB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
Graphics 1GB NVIDIA GeForce GT 220 [DVI, HDMI, VGA]
drive LightScribe 16X max. DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive
Networking Premium Wireless-N LAN card and Bluetooth(R )

This set up is $1,149 at HP

I am all for buying from a smaller company, but you really have to know what you are buying. I don't know the hardware anymore.

Sounds like a nice machine. For that price, go for it.

I wouldn't. The one item that gives me pause is the RAM. It's an odd (both in number and strangeness) configuration. With the i7-920, you need to run RAM in pairs of 3 in order for RAM to run at its full speed. With only 5 DIMMS (equaling 9GB) in that configuration, you're RAM is going to take a significant performance hit. Either bump it up to 12GB (6 2GB DIMMS) or trim it down to 6GB (3 2GB DIMMS) and you'll be fine.

Nov 03, 2009 at 05:05 AM

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p.2 #22 · Mac/PC debate

I use both and personally prefer the Mac, but if you consider cost I would go with a PC.

For me, I prefer to just turn on my computer and use it, not futz around with settings to get it to work the way it should. One can generally spend enough time to get a PC to run as well as a Mac, but my experience has been that my PC's have more issues than my Mac laptop. Not usually anything serious, but enough that I prefer the Mac. Being used to the PC, you probably know all that already.

I will say that when I asked a similar question a couple of years ago, for photography the Mac was the hands down winner for recommendations. It wasn't scientific, but it did seem to be about 8 or 9 to 1 in favor of a Mac. Of course with different people it could go the other way as well, so take that for what it is worth.

The biggest drag about having both the Mac and PC is that you end up buying two sets of software. I run Parallels with XP on the Mac, so if I really have to have PC software on the Mac I can run it, but I prefer native Mac software myself. I'm not sure I would recommend that for Photoshop, but the option is there.

In the long run, if you are asking you can probably stick with the PC. If you try the Mac and really prefer it and don't mind the extra expense, go for it. Otherwise stick with the PC. They ultimately do the same thing and the rest is purely personal preference. I'll keep both going, but I'm not really diehard for either one, even if my Mac does often run better than my PC (which is newer.)

David

Nov 03, 2009 at 05:29 AM

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p.2 #23 · Mac/PC debate

theletterj wrote:

The reason you're getting sluggish performance from your PC is because you're running CS4 on a machine that's 3-4 years old, not because it's a PC. The same would happen on a Mac.

In my experience, that's not exactly true. My aged Windows XP machine, with certain Malware protections and AntiVirus, still ran much slower relative to its new state than my 5 year old G5, which ran at about the same performance level, but without the malware protection or need to reinstall the OS.

Apple barely supports 4 year old machines (PPC-based), so things could definitely be worst.

That is true, and it's the only reason I sold my old G5. I did not sell it because it had slowed down... quite the contrary; I sold it because Apple and Autodesk left PPC behind.

That being said, I hate owning things that look or behave like crap. Perhaps Win7 has improved the Wintel experience in this regard, but I've been using both systems for a long time. Windows is crap, as are most of the plastic-fantastic, bargain-basement systems it runs on. I used to build them, but that takes time, research, and expertise. I can devote that time to my family, clients, food, or art, but not to my computers.

Again, it appears that Windows 7 has obviated some of the more compelling reasons to think about a Mac. I'll certainly be running it on this system. But for as many times as I have thought about throwing my Windows laptops against the wall, I don't think I'll be moving back to Windows as a sole platform any time soon.

Arka C.

Nov 03, 2009 at 05:50 AM

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p.2 #24 · Mac/PC debate

Anthony Kaye wrote:
I think the OS is half of the deal -- I don't have to mess with OS X; Windows CONSTANTLY requires something - and then wants me to reboot. Crap - I don't WANT to be a computer guy, I want to be WORKING.

It's possible that our experiences are just different, but are you serious that your OSX doesn't keep asking you to reboot? My Mac Pro like once a week says it downloaded updates and needs to reboot. No joke. In fact, it happens so often I just leave that box open and drag it into a corner. Haha. The MacBook isn't as bad so maybe it's the specific software on the pro. Still odd.

Nov 03, 2009 at 05:53 AM

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p.2 #25 · Mac/PC debate

www.newegg.com

they have easy to follow videos on youtube that show you how to build your own.

Nov 03, 2009 at 06:11 AM


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