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Archive 2009 · Canon prices
  
 
Lars Johnsson
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p.3 #1 · Canon prices


Moldova one of the poorest Europen countries has that low average income. And 21% of the population are under the absolute poverty line and registered an income lower than US $ 2.15 (PPP) per day.

Nov 02, 2009 at 08:08 PM
Raydes
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p.3 #2 · Canon prices


Sorry Lars for going back to topic

Further Price drop on MkIV

My local dealer in Belgium is officially selling the MkIV for 3999 euro's TAV included.
And beiing not so active in posting here was I wondering can I post his website adress or is this not done on FM ?
People can always sent a PM for info






Nov 02, 2009 at 08:28 PM
python2000
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p.3 #3 · Canon prices


15Bit wrote:
Define "average"...

But, the numbers do not reflect the generally more polarised distribution of wealth in the US though - very few people actually earn the US median income, most earn much more or much less.



I have one nit with this assessment. Certainly the US is more "polarised" than individual European countries (due mostly to the higher level of homogeneity within an individual European country's borders), but I doubt the US income distribution is much more "polarised" than Europe as a whole - when you take into account the contrast between the Norways and the Moldovas.

Nov 02, 2009 at 08:40 PM
15Bit
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p.3 #4 · Canon prices


Quite true, but at risk of repeating the obvious - "Europe" is not a country. Despite much of the discussion here, "Europe" does not warrant comparison with the US. The population of "Europe" is 800 million plus, the population of the US is about 300 million. Some European countries are only a few years old, and some of these are struggling to survive as independent entities. You also point out a further distinction that, in terms of demographics, the poverty we are discussing is more country-based in Europe, and more homogeneously distributed in the US (not to say there aren't poor states, but i doubt any of them can rival todays Moldovan example of grinding poverty). So comparing "Europe" in this sense with the US is simply ridiculous.

Just to remind everyone, we are discussing the relative costs of expensive consumer luxury items, so whilst i agree with Lars' observations that much of Europe is (sadly) poor, the 5 dollar a day Moldovans are unlikely to be much of a market to Canon anyway and do not really enter this discussion.

So again, if you want a reasonably fair comparison, the Euro-currency countries are probably the best. A population in the 300-350 million range which can boast some sort of federalised monetary policy and open trade borders. They can also boast reasonably homogeneous laws too, along with a similarly broad range of cultures as the US. You could even argue that this choice leaves out the statistical outliers - the insanely poor countries (moldova) and the insanely rich ones (Monaco), as well as the most extremely socialist (scandinavia) and probably the most capitalist (the UK). However, in the context of the original topic of discussion here, i must admit that the eurozone choice is still a bit of an over simplification.

python2000 wrote:
15Bit wrote:
Define "average"...

But, the numbers do not reflect the generally more polarised distribution of wealth in the US though - very few people actually earn the US median income, most earn much more or much less.



I have one nit with this assessment. Certainly the US is more "polarised" than individual European countries (due mostly to the higher level of homogeneity within an individual European country's borders), but I doubt the US income distribution is much more "polarised" than Europe as a whole - when you take into account the contrast between the Norways and the Moldovas.



Nov 02, 2009 at 09:30 PM
Lars Johnsson
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p.3 #5 · Canon prices


Raydes wrote:
Sorry Lars for going back to topic

Further Price drop on MkIV

My local dealer in Belgium is officially selling the MkIV for 3999 euro's TAV included.
And beiing not so active in posting here was I wondering can I post his website adress or is this not done on FM ?
People can always sent a PM for info






Of course we like to have the link to the website Please post it

Nov 02, 2009 at 10:09 PM
python2000
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p.3 #6 · Canon prices


15Bit,

Above I compared the US to "Europe" because many of the previous posters who live in or near the continent known as Europe were discussing pricing and using the term "in Europe". I'm not sure that there is a single American who thinks that Europe is a country, as Lars has suggested.

A Brit mentioned Europe, an American asked a question about it, and the American got accused of lacking good geographical skills.

I agree that comparing the US to Europe is ridiculous, but it seems to happen all the time here, and I'm not really sure why. We all know Australia is the best place on Earth and we are all just jealous and take it out on each other.

Nov 02, 2009 at 10:09 PM
DavidP
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p.3 #7 · Canon prices


Lars Johnsson wrote:
It's funny that so many people from the USA talk about Europe like it was one country.


That's what happens when the size of one of our states is larger than almost all (if not all) of your individual countries.

Nov 02, 2009 at 10:23 PM
DavidP
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p.3 #8 · Canon prices


python2000 wrote:
I'm not sure that there is a single American who thinks that Europe is a country,


Oh, I can assure you that there's got to be at least ONE.

Nov 02, 2009 at 10:25 PM
ChrisDar
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p.3 #9 · Canon prices


FredM wrote:
These are the list price for the new EOS-1D Mark IV:

List Price (body only)
£4499 (UK)
$ 4999 (US)
euros 4599 (EU)


Don't worry, if the (blanks) that are now running Washington get their way we'll be right up there with you sooner than you can say VAT.

I'd be willing to take odds that we will have a VAT tax sooner than anyone over here wants one. The groundwork has already been laid with the Trillions of dollars they have already thrown down the hole in Washington with a few more trillion they still want to throw away on the near horizon.


Nov 02, 2009 at 10:36 PM
Lars Johnsson
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p.3 #10 · Canon prices


DavidP wrote:
Lars Johnsson wrote:
It's funny that so many people from the USA talk about Europe like it was one country.


That's what happens when the size of one of our states is larger than almost all (if not all) of your individual countries.


All of your states together is still smaller than Europe

Nov 02, 2009 at 10:45 PM
Fidelity
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p.3 #11 · Canon prices


All of your states together is still smaller than Europe

At the risk of unnecessarily belaboring the off-topic point, Alaska alone is perhaps bigger than Europe. Not that it matters one wit.

Nov 02, 2009 at 11:07 PM
David Baldwin
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p.3 #12 · Canon prices


Sadly the Uk government has destroyed our economic stability, we are in massive public debt here, and the currency markets are responding appropriately. Hopefully this incompetent Labour government will be terminated in next year's elections and we can start to rebuild our debased economy again.

Till then, we will pay through the nose for our Canon kit!

Nov 02, 2009 at 11:10 PM
Lars Johnsson
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p.3 #13 · Canon prices


Fidelity wrote:
All of your states together is still smaller than Europe

At the risk of unnecessarily belaboring the off-topic point, Alaska alone is perhaps bigger than Europe. Not that it matters one wit.


You must be joking Even Canada that is huge compared to Alaska is smaller than Europe

Nov 02, 2009 at 11:13 PM
 



slobodan
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p.3 #14 · Canon prices


FredM wrote:
... for the american people: ask yourself if you would pay: 7500$ for this camera...


Much better question would be: why do YOU pay $7,500? As long as you are willing to pay that much, Canon (and others) will only be happy to charge you that (and more)... So, if you do not like the price, do not buy it... end of story.

So the conclusion: Canon makes a lot of money on the backs of the UK and European citizens


Isn't that what companies exist for? Making money, that is... the more, the better (also known as profit maximization). So, what exactly is your point?

Nov 02, 2009 at 11:28 PM
mfurman
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p.3 #15 · Canon prices


Lars Johnsson:
You must be joking Even Canada that is huge compared to Alaska is smaller than Europe


I think that some may not realize that Europe ends (Eastern "border") at Ural Mountains
Countries considered to be Eastern Europe are really Central Europe.

Edited on Nov 03, 2009 at 01:36 AM · View previous versions


Nov 03, 2009 at 01:34 AM
sirimiri
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p.3 #16 · Canon prices


Oddly enough, the Nikon threads don't ever quite get this far....

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/778942

Nov 03, 2009 at 01:35 AM
mfurman
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p.3 #17 · Canon prices


sirimiri:
Oddly enough, the Nikon threads don't ever quite get this far....


They may not include lessons in Geography

Nov 03, 2009 at 01:38 AM
python2000
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p.3 #18 · Canon prices


Have we determined why the prices are different?

How much do the Japanese themselves pay? How about Hong Kong?

Do lenses have the same cost inequity?

Is there a cost of doing business in Europe (definition: a continent of independent countries far larger than Alaska), such as a levy tax or import tax, etc. that would inflate costs?

Does the fact that Europe (definition: a distant land across that ocean that the Titanic sunk in) has so many languages and cultures make it more difficult to make use of economies of scale from a marketing/customer service perspective?



Nov 03, 2009 at 04:15 AM
Raydes
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p.3 #19 · Canon prices


Ok as Lars asked and others are interested here's the link
http://www.fotorembrandt.be/N_frame.html?http://www.fotorembrandt.be/

Extra info:Copy paste the link and it works !!

Surf to Canon >Canon Reflex >second page at the bottom body only at € 3999
And I confirmed this prize as I already ordered one, it is one/or the lowest price in Belgium

Nov 03, 2009 at 06:40 AM
halie
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p.3 #20 · Canon prices


I think Titanic sank closer to Canada. By the way, you can see where Europe ends in Iceland. The plates are pulling apart. As soon as you crosss over the gulch, Canon prices skyrocket.

Nov 03, 2009 at 06:47 AM
15Bit
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p.3 #21 · Canon prices


python2000 wrote:
Have we determined why the prices are different?


Nope. But if you consider strongly differing models of taxation and social system, you will probably cover a large part of the difference.


Do lenses have the same cost inequity?


Yes. Perhaps not the same % inequality, but there are major price differences.


Is there a cost of doing business in Europe (definition: a continent of independent countries far larger than Alaska), such as a levy tax or import tax, etc. that would inflate costs?


Aside from the import taxation, there are probably some additional costs associated with marketing in the different languages, but in many countries English is widely spoken so you don't lose too many sales if you are a small to medium sized company and you keep everything in English for markets outside France, Germany and Italy. These three require translation as they are large markets and are culturally proud (especially France). All have surprisingly large numbers of non-english speakers, though are catching up now. Canon translate for all markets i think.

Also "Europe" obviously does not have a homogeneous shop/distribution infrastructure. Different models apply in different countries. This undoubtedly adds to cost, but as many of the markets are large anyway, the relative economy of scale loss is not so big i think.

Now the import thing. This bit can become a little confusing as, from an economic perspective, Europe comprises a number of "clubs". The central club is the Eurozone, where a single currency is used. Moving stuff around within the eurozone is very easy. Outside of that (but encompassing it) is the European Union and for countries which don't want full EU membership there is the Extended Economic Area (EEA). Cost of transportation across EU borders is higher than for Eurozone i think. Moving stuff into EEA countries can be very expensive for some products.


Does the fact that Europe (definition: a distant land across that ocean that the Titanic sunk in) has so many languages and cultures make it more difficult to make use of economies of scale from a marketing/customer service perspective?


In short, "Yes". But it is probably less than you would think as the Eurozone/EU/EEA malarky makes borders more porous than it might seem from my comments above. At the end of it though, we return to the beginning - many of the costs (the taxation and staff overheads) exist to fund the social systems adopted by the country in question. And so what you pay for your camera will indirectly reflect the level of healthcare and public services that you receive.

Nov 03, 2009 at 07:08 AM
python2000
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p.3 #22 · Canon prices


halie wrote:
I think Titanic sank closer to Canada. By the way, you can see where Europe ends in Iceland. The plates are pulling apart. As soon as you crosss over the gulch, Canon prices skyrocket.


If only Snorri Thorfinnsson could see us now. Legend has it that his parents were searching for cheaper gear.

Nov 03, 2009 at 07:11 AM
DavidP
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p.3 #23 · Canon prices


Fidelity wrote:
At the risk of unnecessarily belaboring the off-topic point, Alaska alone is perhaps bigger than Europe.


Perhaps on a Mercator Projection map, but not in reality.

Nov 03, 2009 at 02:11 PM
Dawei Ye
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p.3 #24 · Canon prices


mfurman wrote:
sirimiri:
Oddly enough, the Nikon threads don't ever quite get this far....


They may not include lessons in Geography



Nov 03, 2009 at 03:33 PM
well69
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p.3 #25 · Canon prices


So the conclusion: Canon makes a lot of money on the backs of the UK and European citizens


More like your governments make money on the backs of your citizens.

Find a few people who want them and I'll make a trip over and bring them with me.

Nov 03, 2009 at 04:02 PM




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