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Archive 2009 · Canon prices

globalkiwi
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p.2 #1 · Canon prices

Sure, but that's kind of a fact of life for a list that's primarily populated by folks from the USA. I'm not sure why, but one of the cultural consequences of living in such a large continent is that not everyone gets to travel overseas & be aware of geographical differences (in currencies, VAT, healthcare, government, etc.,etc.) in the same way that Europeans do, for example.

Nov 01, 2009 at 10:36 PM

Nick Baker
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p.2 #2 · Canon prices

We're more important so who cares about your weird money symbols, they all mean American Dollars in the end anyways right

?

Edited on Nov 01, 2009 at 10:50 PM · View previous versions

Nov 01, 2009 at 10:46 PM

Mirek Elsner
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p.2 #3 · Canon prices

PasiM wrote:
In Finland 1DmIV has a tag of 4800,00 euros incl taxes (VAT 22%)

That's some 3750 euros without tax compared to $5000 in B&H in the US. So, is Canon in Europe really more expensive than in US these days?

Nov 01, 2009 at 10:47 PM

Nick Baker
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p.2 #4 · Canon prices

hehe just kidding

keithreeder wrote:
python2000 wrote:

I think we are above this kind of talk here.

It wasn't a pop, it was an easily-supported observation.

There's hardly a day goes by without a thread getting started about some UK or Europe-specific thing or other (our camera prices are a typical subject - lets talk about the 7D for a moment), and someone from your side of the pond will, 100% guaranteed, go to great lengths about the original poster being cheap for complaining about a camera that only costs $1699 (or whatever), completely missing the point that the discussion is about the fact that the camera costs £1699 in the UK (and more elsewhere in Europe) which is $2780 today.

Happens every single time, regardless of the number of clues left in the post, or in the location of the original poster...

That just proves there are stupid people in the world. Even if it was unintentional, your statement comes across as an attack on people in the US.

That being said, yes there are plenty of self-centered dummies here, but many do not have the advantage of living in close quarters with other languages, cultures, countries that Europeans have.

Nov 01, 2009 at 10:48 PM

David Clapp
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p.2 #5 · Canon prices

Look at the G11, would you pay $820 for it?! It works out as £305 @ $500, a far more sensible price for a brand new release.

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:03 PM

python2000
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p.2 #6 · Canon prices

keithreeder wrote:
At least Jim recognised that there is life outside of the US, Lars - many of his countrymen haven't even figured that out yet!

Keith, I don't want to make a mountain out of a mole hill, but in your original statement you said "life outside the US". That is objectionable. If you had mentioned the prices of equipment at the onset of the discussion no one would have batted an eye. I will stand with you when someone criticizes cheapness without the context. I will not stand with you when you make claims about our society - which is extremely diverse all by itself (about 1 in 7 are foreign born).

No bad feelings, it just sounded a little shallow. I'll move on now.

Nov 01, 2009 at 11:47 PM

OceanView
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p.2 #7 · Canon prices

It's simple, The US is the biggest market for Canon.

Nov 02, 2009 at 01:36 AM

Lars Johnsson
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p.2 #8 · Canon prices

OceanView wrote:
It's simple, The US is the biggest market for Canon.

No Canon Europe is larger. There have been articles about that. When Canon Europe passed Canon USA

Nov 02, 2009 at 05:34 AM

sirimiri
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p.2 #9 · Canon prices

Lars, I think the gist of what what's been said, is that as a single, unified market, 1 head office reporting to Japan, straightforward English/Spanish/French codified market, with uniform requirements, uniform regulations (though states *could* vary slightly, I guess), single distributorship, Canon U.S.A is the proverbial "360 kilo" gorilla. ;-)

On margin and when pencilled out...that's a formidable distribution channel. Not that Canon Europa B.V. doesn't oversee (a lot) of potential customers. But realistically, it's not the same simple market as the US would be.

My 2 centimes

Nov 02, 2009 at 06:09 AM

15Bit
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p.2 #10 · Canon prices

You are not comparing like with like. You cannot simply take the price of a product and complain that it is cheaper in one country than another - it is overly simplistic and ignores the many economic differences between countries. As Lars pointed out, there are serious price differentials within europe too, many of which related directly to the rights and privileges of the society. For example, i find it significantly cheaper to do much of my shopping in a moderately capitalist country where workers have fewer rights and benefits, rather than the heavily socialised country where i live. That country is "Rip-off Britain". It is no coincidence that the countries with the lowest prices are generally those where the worker (and the customer) has the fewest rights and benefits.

If you want to make this price comparison, you need to take such factors into account. Perhaps a better way would be to look at the cost of your camera kit in relation to the average disposable income of the country. Whilst not a perfect measure, this will at least take into partial account some of the basic differences in terms of income, taxation and cost of living.

Nov 02, 2009 at 06:52 AM

15Bit
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p.2 #11 · Canon prices

Actually you are Keith. The National Insurance bank account ran dry in the early 1990's. Since then pensions and healthcare have been paid for by direct taxation.

keithreeder wrote:

We pay for that in tax and National Insurance, Jim - I don't think I'm paying for other people's health care through my camera purchases yet..!

Nov 02, 2009 at 06:56 AM

big country
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p.2 #12 · Canon prices

this is one of the reasons why the USA is #1.

Nov 02, 2009 at 12:43 PM

abam
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p.2 #13 · Canon prices

america has no attention span or sense of history. europe is full of wankers just now discovering deodorant. there, i've insulted you both. can we move on?

Nov 02, 2009 at 01:10 PM

rprouty
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p.2 #14 · Canon prices

Aren't wages higher in most of Europe than in the US?

Nov 02, 2009 at 01:51 PM

Lars Johnsson
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p.2 #15 · Canon prices

rprouty wrote:
Aren't wages higher in most of Europe than in the US?

The average wage in Europe is a lot below the average wage in the USA. Most of the Western Europen countries and US have pretty similar wages. But 50% of Europe are countries like Albania, Russia, Romania, Ukraina, Belarus, Moldova and so on..........There are a lot of people that earn less than $ 5 a day

Nov 02, 2009 at 03:48 PM

15Bit
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p.2 #16 · Canon prices

Define "average"...

Still, both mean and median incomes for US households are considerably higher than for european countries. But, the numbers do not reflect the generally more polarised distribution of wealth in the US though - very few people actually earn the US median income, most earn much more or much less.

Again, unless you take into account the relative burdens upon the household of US and Euro societies the average income number is meaningless. How much of the household income does the average american have to spend on healthcare and social services which the average european pays for via taxation? There is a calculation which takes some of these things into account, called Purchasing Power Parity. It is still flawed in some respects, but if you want to compare countries and value it is definitely better than ticket prices or median income.

Lars Johnsson wrote:
rprouty wrote:
Aren't wages higher in most of Europe than in the US?

The average wage in Europe is a lot below the average wage in the USA. Most of the Western Europen countries and US have pretty similar wages. But 50% of Europe are countries like Albania, Russia, Romania, Ukraina, Belarus, Moldova and so on..........There are a lot of people that earn less than $ 5 a day

Nov 02, 2009 at 05:19 PM

globalkiwi
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p.2 #17 · Canon prices

15Bit wrote:
There is a calculation which takes some of these things into account, called Purchasing Power Parity. It is still flawed in some respects, but if you want to compare countries and value it is definitely better than ticket prices or median income.

...or the cost of camera equipment.

Nov 02, 2009 at 05:31 PM

Lars Johnsson
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p.2 #18 · Canon prices

15Bit wrote:
Define "average"...

Still, both mean and median incomes for US households are considerably higher than for european countries. But, the numbers do not reflect the generally more polarised distribution of wealth in the US though - very few people actually earn the US median income, most earn much more or much less.

Again, unless you take into account the relative burdens upon the household of US and Euro societies the average income number is meaningless. How much of the household income does the average american have to spend on healthcare and social services which the average european pays for via taxation? There is a calculation which takes some of these things into account, called Purchasing Power Parity. It is still flawed in some respects, but if you want to compare countries and value it is definitely better than ticket prices or median income.

Lars Johnsson wrote:
rprouty wrote:
Aren't wages higher in most of Europe than in the US?

The average wage in Europe is a lot below the average wage in the USA. Most of the Western Europen countries and US have pretty similar wages. But 50% of Europe are countries like Albania, Russia, Romania, Ukraina, Belarus, Moldova and so on..........There are a lot of people that earn less than $ 5 a day

Many European countries & people has even less healthcare and social services than the average American. Some don't have any at all.

Nov 02, 2009 at 06:05 PM

braddo_99
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p.2 #19 · Canon prices

Are there also other business costs for Canon in Europe such as import duties paid by canon directly? Certainly there are overhead marketing costs for different languages, paying off different reviewers etc :-)

Nov 02, 2009 at 06:13 PM

andrewd01
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p.2 #20 · Canon prices

It is interesting to note that Nikon is more cost competitive in Europe than Canon.

According to B&H Nikon D3s is USD5200 and Canon 1dmkIV USD 5000. Both sell here for exactly the same price of USD7630.

Canon and Nikon run at around 1.5 the US price here. Leica M9 is a relative bargain at around 1.3x US price. This could be due to lower logistical costs getting the cameras from Germany.

Nov 02, 2009 at 06:53 PM

15Bit
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p.2 #21 · Canon prices

Lars Johnsson wrote:

Many European countries & people has even less healthcare and social services than the average American. Some don't have any at all.

That is very true, though for the purposes of this thread it is probably more appropriate to consider the more mature european countries. Including the former eastern bloc states does not give a very accurate comparison as many of them are newly formed (and in some cases still unstable) states that are attempting the unlikely feat of going from nothing to euro living quality in the matter of a couple of years. The US states have remained stable for some time, so should be accordingly compared to the more mature european countries.

Perhaps a reasonable measure would be the Eurozone, as it excludes both the poorer nations and the relatively wealthy scandinavian countries and the UK.

Nov 02, 2009 at 07:02 PM

Lars Johnsson
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p.2 #22 · Canon prices

Mirek Elsner wrote:
PasiM wrote:
In Finland 1DmIV has a tag of 4800,00 euros incl taxes (VAT 22%)

That's some 3750 euros without tax compared to $5000 in B&H in the US. So, is Canon in Europe really more expensive than in US these days?

Yes Europe is more expensive because 3750 Euro is more than 5000 US dollars

Nov 02, 2009 at 07:29 PM

kakomu
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p.2 #23 · Canon prices

Lars Johnsson wrote:
rprouty wrote:
Aren't wages higher in most of Europe than in the US?

The average wage in Europe is a lot below the average wage in the USA. Most of the Western Europen countries and US have pretty similar wages. But 50% of Europe are countries like Albania, Russia, Romania, Ukraina, Belarus, Moldova and so on..........There are a lot of people that earn less than $ 5 a day

And $5 can be considered a lot of money if the cost of living is very low. A friend of mine makes $25k more than me, but lives in LA. Because the cost of living in LA Is astronomical, we have about the same standard of living.

Nick Baker wrote:
That being said, yes there are plenty of self-centered dummies here, but many do not have the advantage of living in close quarters with other languages, cultures, countries that Europeans have.

It may not seem like a lot to the people with L fever, but traveling abroad can be very expensive. I make a decent living and I find it difficult to afford going to places in the US for a vacation, let alone flying internationally. I'm sure that many other people in the US feel the same way. I'm sort of stuck here without saving a bunch of cash to fly internationally and, as such, US stuff is basically all I know.

Nov 02, 2009 at 07:33 PM

Lars Johnsson
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p.2 #24 · Canon prices

kakomu wrote:
Lars Johnsson wrote:
rprouty wrote:
Aren't wages higher in most of Europe than in the US?

The average wage in Europe is a lot below the average wage in the USA. Most of the Western Europen countries and US have pretty similar wages. But 50% of Europe are countries like Albania, Russia, Romania, Ukraina, Belarus, Moldova and so on..........There are a lot of people that earn less than $ 5 a day

And $5 can be considered a lot of money if the cost of living is very low. A friend of mine makes $25k more than me, but lives in LA. Because the cost of living in LA Is astronomical, we have about the same standard of living.

Nick Baker wrote:
That being said, yes there are plenty of self-centered dummies here, but many do not have the advantage of living in close quarters with other languages, cultures, countries that Europeans have.

It may not seem like a lot to the people with L fever, but traveling abroad can be very expensive. I make a decent living and I find it difficult to afford going to places in the US for a vacation, let alone flying internationally. I'm sure that many other people in the US feel the same way. I'm sort of stuck here without saving a bunch of cash to fly internationally and, as such, US stuff is basically all I know.

So tell us any place in Europe (you can choose any city, country or place) where the cost of living is so low that less than $ 5 in daily salary, is a lot of money. And makes the living standard nice

Nov 02, 2009 at 07:39 PM

kakomu
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p.2 #25 · Canon prices

Lars Johnsson wrote:
So tell us any place in Europe (you can choose any city, country or place) where the cost of living is so low that less than $ 5 in daily salary, is a lot of money. And makes the living standard nice

If you read the last paragraph (which indicates that I cannot actually get to Europe because it's expensive) you'll understand that it's rather difficult for me to do so. Moreover, you'll note that I stated "if the cost of living is low". I never stated that there is a location that has a cost of living that low. The point being that merely discussing a person's wage without any reference to where they live is dubious, to say the least. Such as mine and my friend's relative salaries. We have a fairly vast difference between our salaries, but the cost of living in our respective areas makes the standard of living between us rather comparable.

In the US, $41.65 per day is considered below the poverty level. However, I was used to making ~$30 or less per day in wages when I was working crap jobs during school (and immediately afterward). This proves SQUAT. Why not ask a bum how much they make per day? If you're going to tell me that a country, as a whole, has an average wage of $5 per day, then we can discuss cost of living and what $5 a day actually means. Otherwise, you're just pointing to outliers as though they mean anything.

Nov 02, 2009 at 07:49 PM


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