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Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample Go to previous topic Go to next topic
E-Vener
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p.1 #1 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


Bello Nock of the Big Apple Circus captured at 1/5000th of a second on a Nikon D3s at ISO 51,200:





Oct 29, 2009 at 07:46 PM
R. Francois
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p.1 #2 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


i would have tried this @ iso3200 1/500 maybe even iso1600 1/250.
but that is not the point here i presume

Oct 29, 2009 at 07:52 PM
Marc_h
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p.1 #3 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


Dang, that really makes my d200 look like a piece o other stuff.

Awesome, technology is progressing in amazing ways.


Oct 29, 2009 at 07:56 PM
E-Vener
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p.1 #4 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


R. Francois wrote:
i would have tried this @ iso3200 1/500 maybe even iso1600 1/250.
but that is not the point here i presume


And you'd have gotten a blurred image. That is indeed one of the points I am making.


Oct 29, 2009 at 08:20 PM
R. Francois
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p.1 #5 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


really?

Oct 29, 2009 at 08:22 PM
jamach
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p.1 #6 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


E-Vener wrote:
R. Francois wrote:
i would have tried this @ iso3200 1/500 maybe even iso1600 1/250.
but that is not the point here i presume


And you'd have gotten a blurred image. That is indeed one of the points I am making.

wwo, not sure about the usefulness of this pic for anything except gee whiz. I am missing the point with these new capabilities. The pics are just about unusable, but would come in handy in a emergency situation where no other option was available, I suppose. ISO 102K and unusable, real impressive. But is costs less than the D3X, that is something!

Great work!

Oct 29, 2009 at 08:30 PM
tuannie
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p.1 #7 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


E-Vener wrote:
R. Francois wrote:
i would have tried this @ iso3200 1/500 maybe even iso1600 1/250.
but that is not the point here i presume


And you'd have gotten a blurred image. That is indeed one of the points I am making.


That's new to me...I shoot weddings and I shoot down to 1/60 of second whenever I can to keep the noise down. I would go up to ISO 12,800 but not above that with the D3s. Right now, I am hesitant to go to 6400 on the D700. The reason is that it is great on the computer but not in an album.

Oct 29, 2009 at 08:30 PM
E-Vener
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p.1 #8 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


tuannie wrote:
E-Vener wrote:
R. Francois wrote:
i would have tried this @ iso3200 1/500 maybe even iso1600 1/250.
but that is not the point here i presume


And you'd have gotten a blurred image. That is indeed one of the points I am making.


That's new to me...I shoot weddings and I shoot down to 1/60 of second whenever I can to keep the noise down. I would go up to ISO 12,800 but not above that with the D3s. Right now, I am hesitant to go to 6400 on the D700. The reason is that it is great on the computer but not in an album.


In the specific situation I shot this photo in you'd have blur.


Oct 29, 2009 at 08:53 PM
E-Vener
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p.1 #9 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


jamach wrote:
E-Vener wrote:
R. Francois wrote:
i would have tried this @ iso3200 1/500 maybe even iso1600 1/250.
but that is not the point here i presume


And you'd have gotten a blurred image. That is indeed one of the points I am making.

wwo, not sure about the usefulness of this pic for anything except gee whiz. I am missing the point with these new capabilities. The pics are just about unusable, but would come in handy in a emergency situation where no other option was available, I suppose. ISO 102K and unusable, real impressive. But is costs less than the D3X, that is something!

Great work!



Thank you. But you've got to be kidding about these photos not being usable.

Oct 29, 2009 at 08:54 PM
Rodolfo Paiz
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p.1 #10 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


I'd definitely suggest switching to lossless compressed for your NEF. Kind of throws a wrench in the works of an otherwise very careful process.

What do you think the minimum usable speed would have been? I have trouble imagining that 1/2000 (@ ISO 20K or so) would be too slow, but what's your experience?

For the critics who are calling it "unusable", remember that this image has specifically not been cleaned up at all. Plus, it needs a little reduction in exposure and more contrast. And while I'm not sure how good the finished image here would be, I'm pretty certain it would look a lot better than it does currently, and might be good enough for many uses, even though not all. This also means that ISO 6400 (3 stops below this) is one hell of a lot better, and we didn't even have these options a couple of years ago. Having "unusable" ISO 51K is still better than not having it at all.

Oct 29, 2009 at 08:57 PM
jamach
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p.1 #11 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


no negativity intended - how would you use these ultra high ISO pics that are lacking detail and noisy?

Thanks.

Oct 29, 2009 at 08:58 PM
LeifG
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p.1 #12 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


It's impressive, but I do wonder what the noise would be like with a longer exposure, to see if the exposure duration is a parameter.

Oct 29, 2009 at 08:58 PM
andreavaccaro
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p.1 #13 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


The image is very good to be at 51,200 ISO.
But I would have tried 1/1250th at 12,800 ISO, or maybe even lower. Without getting a blurred image.

Oct 29, 2009 at 09:00 PM
LeifG
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p.1 #14 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


Rodolfo Paiz wrote:
For the critics who are calling it "unusable",


It's obviously not okay for landscapes, but for newspapers, and artistic natural light shots, or even in situations where light is low and extra lighting not possible, it is more than usable.


Oct 29, 2009 at 09:01 PM
Jammy Straub
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p.1 #15 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


Thanks for the example Ellis. I appreciate it. I find it more than usable, grain is grain, it's never bothered me.

Oct 29, 2009 at 09:11 PM
Erik Moore
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p.1 #16 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


jamach wrote:
no negativity intended - how would you use these ultra high ISO pics that are lacking detail and noisy?

Thanks.


They would be more than acceptable for low light reception work, nighttime street photography, PJ, etc. Exceptional detail is not critical for all types of photography, and I would venture a guess that these would look spectacular after BW conversion and/or some noise reduction.

I won't be replacing my D700 any time soon, but I do like knowing that my next camera upgrade down the road will give me results like this in low light.

To the OP: Thanks for posting. I'd like to see more.

Oct 29, 2009 at 09:46 PM
galenapass
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p.1 #17 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


Rodolfo Paiz wrote:
I'd definitely suggest switching to lossless compressed for your NEF. Kind of throws a wrench in the works of an otherwise very careful process.

What do you think the minimum usable speed would have been? I have trouble imagining that 1/2000 (@ ISO 20K or so) would be too slow, but what's your experience?

For the critics who are calling it "unusable", remember that this image has specifically not been cleaned up at all. Plus, it needs a little reduction in exposure and more contrast. And while I'm not sure how good the finished image here would be, I'm pretty certain it would look a lot better than it does currently, and might be good enough for many uses, even though not all. This also means that ISO 6400 (3 stops below this) is one hell of a lot better, and we didn't even have these options a couple of years ago. Having "unusable" ISO 51K is still better than not having it at all.


+1

Absolutely, decrease the exposure a little, apply a little NN and viola I am sure that would be a very usable shot.

By the way Ellis its nice to see you posting on FM.

Oct 30, 2009 at 12:14 AM
E-Vener
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p.1 #18 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


andreavaccaro wrote:
The image is very good to be at 51,200 ISO.
But I would have tried 1/1250th at 12,800 ISO, or maybe even lower. Without getting a blurred image.


You'd have asked a very active circus performer in the middle of a routine to move slower? I didn't have that luxury. They were going through a full dress / tech rehearsal and we were allowed to shoot it, not direct it. Among other things flash was forbidden.

Oct 30, 2009 at 01:14 AM
E-Vener
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p.1 #19 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


Erik Moore wrote:


To the OP: Thanks for posting. I'd like to see more.


You're welcome but I have to get back to working for jobs for clients. I didn't quite realize this was going to eat up the better part of a couple of days.


Oct 30, 2009 at 01:19 AM
Jammy Straub
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p.1 #20 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


E-Vener wrote:
Erik Moore wrote:


To the OP: Thanks for posting. I'd like to see more.


You're welcome but I have to get back to working for jobs for clients. I didn't quite realize this was going to eat up the better part of a couple of days.


The secret is to just get on here when you've got some time to kill, just blow everyone off if you've got real life stuff to do

Oct 30, 2009 at 01:40 AM
Lumen01
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p.1 #21 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


I would also love to see more. For those who are curious of the application and need for high ISO photography, wedding receptions or dark churches...

I would personally relish the ability to use this at a wedding. Provided I always try to keep my ISO down, but I have been in some venues which, while very nice, were lit in such a way to create a certain ambiance (i.e. dark dark dark) this means even with a 2.8 or faster lens I've been shooting ISO 12,500 and 1/50 sec. The OPTION to be able to use this ISO just opens up so many creative possibilities!

Evan



Oct 30, 2009 at 01:47 AM
corndog
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p.1 #22 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


Thanks for showing your sample, it looks great all things considered!

Not to be contrary, but there's no way 1/5000 was required for this. Have a look at this shot:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9068-10086

These guys are absolutely stopped in their tracks while running and falling at 1/2000 with a lens of equivalent to yours. Also, your camera is full frame, while the camera used in the above is 1.3, putting yours at at even greater advantage as far as telephoto shake is concerned. I'm with Francois, this could have been done at 1/500.

I also understand that is not the point of this test, and find it amazing that 51.2k isn't far off from being usable in print, and definitely usable for web with some post.


Oct 30, 2009 at 02:42 AM
Harry Hoffman
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p.1 #23 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


It's kinda cool for the ISO.
Without ISO taken into consideration, would it be good?
Great composition? Yes
Great IQ? No



Oct 30, 2009 at 03:32 AM
Rodolfo Paiz
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p.1 #24 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


corndog wrote:
Not to be contrary, but there's no way 1/5000 was required for this. Have a look at this shot:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9068-10086

These guys are absolutely stopped in their tracks while running and falling at 1/2000 [...] I'm with Francois, this could have been done at 1/500.


After seeing Rob's shot, I disagree. Do the math...

Rob's shot is sharp enough for nearly any intended usage. But it's definitely (even at the larger web size posted) not as perfectly sharp as it would have been if the subjects were standing still, so there is some motion blur; and the math says the same thing my eyes tell me. A flat-out run in football probably means 5 meters per second or more, but those 5 m/sec mean 2.5mm of motion in 1/2000 sec. Not enough to "matter", and I'm certainly not nitpicking... but it's not "absolutely stopped", it's stopped enough to get the desired results.

Circus performers are often diving from high altitudes or flying through the air in trapeze acts. I estimate that some of those free-falls have "hang times" of more than 2 seconds, but let's look at just 1 second for this example. After one second, gravity will have accelerated the diver or trapeze artist to 9.8 m/s. And since they always have some forward motion, a nice round number of 10 m/s is conservative. To get the same sharpness that Rob got (2.5 mm of motion) with the subject moving at twice the speed, you would obviously need 1/4000.

Once you combine the forward motion of trapeze artists with free-fall hang times that may approach 2 seconds, it's entirely realistic to have motion vectors well in excess of 20 m/s. I see absolutely no reason to question the need for 1/5000 shutter speeds in some circus settings. Obviously not all shots will require that kind of speed... but I do think that some will.

Oct 30, 2009 at 03:46 PM
jamach
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p.1 #25 · Nikon D3s @ ISO 51,200: additional sample


Paiz, I was going to jump in with a comment but after re-reading your analysis I find it very interesting and entertaining.

Joe

Oct 30, 2009 at 08:15 PM

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