I recently purchased the Eclipse E2 and some Sensor Swabs, just to have around, just in case. For the past several years, I have never required anything more than my Giottos Rocket Blower and a LensPen SensorKlear, but I wanted to try something different, and while the result was horrendous, I'm sure glad it wasn't one of my other more valuable bodies. If you look closely, it appears at least two coating layers have been damaged. What the hell happened? isn't this stuff guaranteed to be safe? Photographic Solutions has their guarantee posted on their site, as follows:
Photographic Solutions, Inc. guarantees that it's Sensor Swab , BrushOff or Eclipse products will cause no damage to the CCD or CMOS sensor when used in accordance with the instructions provided by the camera manufacturer and/or Photographic Solutions website (PS). If it is determined that these products caused physical damage to the sensor, PS will reimburse the camera owner for the full cost of repairs upon presentation to PS of proof of purchase, camera manufacturer's repair invoice and the damaged sensor. This warranty applies to all cameras and in any country.
They also state further down the page a somewhat contradictory statement, in that they want the camera sent directly to Photographic Solutions:
EFFECTIVE 10 MARCH 2009 :
FOR ALL USA DSLR CAMERA OWNERS and
FOR ALL INTERNATIONAL DSLR CAMERA OWNERS, EXCEPT CANON 5D :
Please send your unit postpaid to :
Photographic Solutions, Inc.
260 Main Street
Buzzards Bay, MA, 02532
FOR ALL INTERNATIONAL CANON 5D OWNERS :
Contact us directly with name, address, phone number and Camera serial number. We will arrange through Canon USA to have your camera serviced within your own country at no charge to you. DO NOT SEND YOUR 5D from outside the USA to us !!!
When these instructions are followed, we will repair and return at no charge to you when you provide the proof of purchase information along with your camera. Send the camera body only, no lens or accessories (battery, cords, etc.)
So, my final question - has anyone received satisfaction from Photographic Solutions under these guarantees? I checked the Copperhill site, and while its owner has previously been a staunch defender of the E2 solution, blaming Canon for "defective" sensors in his FM posts, Copperhill no longer lists E2 for sale on its site.
I'd appreciate any advice/experiences you may all have to share. Thanks in advance.
That's pretty insane. Looks like either a serious sensor manufacturing defect or a bad batch of Eclipse (I'm going with the former).
I suggest you contact Photographic Solutions. I've read several posts by people who made claims under their guarantee, and I don't recall any unresolved issues.
Well, I used a #2 Sensor Swab, with a few drops of E2. I ran the swab in one direction, then flipped it over and went the opposite way. After that, the sensor appeared clean except for a small horizontal streak near the top, so I repeated the whole process. I then took a test shot with a stopped-down lens, and when I viewed the file on my laptop it looked pretty good except for a small "water-spot" near the right edge and a few specs. It was only when I took the lens off and the room light caught the sensor and my eye at just the right angle that I saw the color changes. I almost dropped the camera.
The pics were lighted with a harsh halogen desk lamp, which makes it look pretty rough, but it's actually hard to see the damage otherwise. IMO, the fluid simply dissolved the coating like paint stripper would on a piece of furniture. I didn't use any undue pressure and only moved the swab in a horizontal direction, as instructed. I've had that 10D since it was new in early '04, owned 8 or 9 other Canon DSLR's since then, and have never so much as scratched a sensor. In fact, I was so paranoid after the 10D was damaged that I checked my 1D2n, 5D and 50D, and thankfully they were all fine. This is the first time I have ever used E2, although on rare occasions I have wet-cleaned sensors using "Formula MC" lens cleaner, which is largely water-based.
Whether this is one of those cases where the coatings were defective, or the sensor filter was mounted upside-down (as I've seen mentioned by the owner of Copper Hill), I've got no way of knowing, but I honestly can't admit to anything other than following the instructions I had. I'm a trauma/acute care nurse by profession, so I think I've got a light touch and consider myself to be very skilled at small detail work. The tough part here may be proving that I purchased the E2 and Sensor Swabs in the first place. I bought everything from micro-tools.com, but I didn't save the receipt for such a small purchase. Somewhere, there will be a record of my credit card transaction, and I do have it recorded in Quicken. Never again will I use such a solvent to clean any of my sensors or lenses.
Anyone know why Copper Hill isn't selling E2 any more? I understood that E2 was required for the newer sensors, and that it was also backward-compatible for the older ones, too.
I went to Photosol website about a couple of weeks ago and apparently they have also stopped selling E2 solution. I don't know why though. Now they just say and I quote;
Eclipse is intended all digital sensors and all critical optics.
I just copy pasted that sentence so the error is theirs.
Yup, although a good camera has been ruined, you lucky that has not happened to one of your more recent bodies.
I am a firm believer in dry sensor cleaning methods such as the bulb blower and gentle Lenspen application. If I couldn't clean a sensor with the Lenspen, I'd probably take the camera to Canon for cleaning. Fortunately, I never had to do that so far.
VladiD wrote:
Not trying to doubt your sensor-cleaning skills, but that looks like physical damage to me. Could it be that the swab scraped the sensor surface?
Agree, looks like too much of cleaning been applied I used same Eclipse 2 on 5D, 40D, 1d mk III without any problems. This process need no pressure nor extra power and normally dust/dirt is gone in two light movements of swab.
I have to agree with Bob_McBob in that it looks like a serious manufacturing defect. The 10D's sensor was designed with the coating on the underside of the cut-filter, so it looks like it may have been installed upside-down. These older coatings were not designed to be cleaned with anything.
Why don't you ask the company you bought the supplies from to send you a copy of the receipt? As long as you can produce this showing you did in fact buy SensorSwabs and E2, Photographic Solutions WILL have your sensor repaired at their expense, this is their 100% guarantee.
SONY formulated E2 to be used on their sensor coatings and Photographic Solutions assumed it had been based on some sort of testing procedure or an analysis of the possible chemical reaction. With this assumption, they went ahead and recommended E2 for ALL coated sensors. Being a watered-down Eclipse, E2 had a propensity to leave streaks whereas Eclipse left none, but it was a weaker solvent.
Fast forward a little. Photosol subsequently did their own testing with both fluids. These tests involved placing each fluid on a PecPad wrapped around their finger. They then literally tried to rub off the coatings of manufacture-supplied sensor assemblies with a ridiculous amount of force. They couldn't do it. They also took into account the real-world experiences of beta-testers like myself. I have a D300 with an ITO-coated sensor and have been using Eclipse on it for almost 2 years with zero problems. I clean my sensor on average once a week, so that's equal to about 100 swabbings, at least. It eventually became painfully obvious that there was no need for E2 so they discontinued it. If Photosol had any doubts about these facts, they would not be guaranteeing Eclipse.
It is my own personal opinion that SONY's admonitions were based totally on speculation and not any lab-testing. There are plenty of people using Eclipse on SONY's coated sensors with no problems, so that in itself should confirm my theory. The latest change by Photosol came only after their own exhaustive tests were combined with seeing long-term results of Eclipse on coated sensors, such as with my own camera.
I know this has been a confusing issue, but I hope this clarifies it a bit.
Thanks, everyone, for the input, and especially to Nicholas for clearing up the issue with E2 versus the original Eclipse fluid. Hard to believe after all these years of owning that 10D I could never tell from the images that the filter was installed upside-down, but that seems to be the most logical explanation. I think I'm permanently scared away from any solvent-based cleaning methods for good, and I wish I hadn't had the idea to try something new I didn't even need.
n0b0 wrote:
Thanks for the explanation Nicholas. I guess I'll just continue using E2 until it's finished.
n0b0,
That is the correct decision as long as E2 is working for you. Unfortunately, there are a huge number of sensor cleaning articles on the internet, such as Thom Hogan's, for one, that are not current with this new information. So it will take some time for the news to get circulated, specifically that E2 has been discontinued .
dcains wrote:
Thanks, everyone, for the input, and especially to Nicholas for clearing up the issue with E2 versus the original Eclipse fluid. Hard to believe after all these years of owning that 10D I could never tell from the images that the filter was installed upside-down, but that seems to be the most logical explanation. I think I'm permanently scared away from any solvent-based cleaning methods for good, and I wish I hadn't had the idea to try something new I didn't even need.
dcains,
Your reaction is perfectly understandable. I believe the Nikon D70 came out not long after the 10D, and there were a few instances of filters in those bodies being installed upside-down, too.
I have cleaned all sensors rebel, 5d, mkIII, mkIIn, mkII, 30d for years with eclipse solution and eclipse2. Never a problem. Just don't want people who are considering wet cleaning to get scared like I was on my first attempt.
I bought a 5D off of the forums here. Long story short, sensor was dirty as could be. Out of the horror story of a sale I got, the seller did offer to clean it. I figured it was due time that I learned how to clean a sensor, so I said, nah I'll do it.
I googled, and FM'ed a method for doing it. I came across the copperhill site, and sent him the serial for my 5D. It was suggested that I use E2 solution.
During this time, my 5D ended up going to Canon, to prove to Canon that they were the ones who couldn't fix my 70-200, not my cameras not focusing properly. So they cleaned it. It wasn't great (still dust in the corners at like f/8 or 11) it was better than it was. I never really worried about it.
One night I had a few mixed drinks and I tried to clean the sensor. I used E2 on a pec pad, and it turned out great. I freaked when I seen your picture, so I went and looked at my 5D's sensor, just now and it's nice nice looking.
I hope that the place honors the warranty...or maybe you could send it to Canon and they would sell you like a 50D for like 50 bucks!
Although it came at a high cost to Dean this has been a very informative post.
I appreciate everyone's experience and especially would like to thank dcains for sharing what must have been an extremely frustrating and infuriating experience in such a clear and dispassionate manner.
I purchased some pec pads and a bottle of E2 about 3 years ago with my first dslr. The pads and solution are almost all gone and I have used them to clean a 350D, 400D, 20D, 40D, 5D and 1DmkI without any ill effects. Some cleanings have certainly used more pec pads than others, mostly due to streaking, but I've had no damage. As my supplies are running out I have been considering what to replace them with and the information here from Deans bad luck and Nickel S' experience has certainly increased my knowledge.
Also, One_DaveT wrote You likely now have an excellent candidate for making an infra red dSLR camera.
which is an excellent point. Another option Dean, would be to send it into Canon for the Loyalty program where you should currently be able to get a Canon refurb'ed 50D for $600. However either of those avenues would preclude you from sending it to Photographic Solutions for a warranty claim.
Good luck in whatever course you pursue Dean, and thanks again for sharing your misfortune.
I used same Eclipse 2 on 5D, 40D, 1d mk III without any problems. This process need no pressure nor extra power and normally dust/dirt is gone in two light movements of swab.