Flare..UPDATE

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Archive 2009 · Flare..UPDATE

jeremy_clay
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p.2 #1 · Flare..UPDATE

Homey wrote:
Chris Beaumont wrote:
Sam, haven't you being rocking da flare for years? Is this some sort of 5DII over-sensitive to the heat issue? Or have you just started doing it a LOT more often than when you had the MK I ?

No Chris this is not new. This is just not discussed in great lengths. Because flare is now starting to become used more than before.

The lens length, intensity of the sun (IE how much of the sun is in the image), how large the sun is in the frame and the length the shutter is open plays a role.

Its a crapshoot and like playing Russian Roulette with your sensor.

I think he means sam has, presumably, had his Mk I's in action for far longer then his melted MkII, and that if it were to happen, one would assume the MkI would have shown it first.

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:12 PM

Homey
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p.2 #2 · Flare..UPDATE

Ahh I see.
Thats possible.
Depends on how hot the Mk 1 sensor has gotten before.

I'll shut up and wait for Sam to tell us if he shot more flare shots with the Mk uno and there are no issues.

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:15 PM

4honor
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p.2 #3 · Flare..UPDATE

Well that's no good... I guess it's Photoshop flare for me then...

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:16 PM

fchang
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p.2 #4 · Flare..UPDATE

I wonder if a UV filter or CP filter on the lens can mitigate some of the damage?

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:17 PM

Chris Beaumont
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p.2 #5 · Flare..UPDATE

jeremy_clay wrote:
Homey wrote:
Chris Beaumont wrote:
Sam, haven't you being rocking da flare for years? Is this some sort of 5DII over-sensitive to the heat issue? Or have you just started doing it a LOT more often than when you had the MK I ?

No Chris this is not new. This is just not discussed in great lengths. Because flare is now starting to become used more than before.

The lens length, intensity of the sun (IE how much of the sun is in the image), how large the sun is in the frame and the length the shutter is open plays a role.

Its a crapshoot and like playing Russian Roulette with your sensor.

I think he means sam has, presumably, had his Mk I's in action for far longer then his melted MkII, and that if it were to happen, one would assume the MkI would have shown it first.

Bingo

Exactly what I meant, I was sure I'd seen Sam doing flare long before the 5DII was even announced, and presumably the 5D classic hasn't done some sort of Wicked Witch of the West act and melted?

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:18 PM

Chris Beaumont
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p.2 #6 · Flare..UPDATE

fchang wrote:
I wonder if a UV filter or CP filter on the lens can mitigate some of the damage?

CP might, as the light intensity hitting the sensor/mirror will be lessened, I doubt it's UV light causing the damage though, as has been mentioned already, any lens is essentially just a magnifying glass concentrating light to a circle of 36mmx36mm (or thereabouts

)

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:21 PM

sherijohnson
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p.2 #7 · Flare..UPDATE

I am thankful for the warning and I am not a fan of flare anyway. I am one to always use the lens hood when I have one or shielding my camera from flare even if just with my hand.

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:22 PM

MPLS_photog
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p.2 #8 · Flare..UPDATE

By 2014, the majority of wedding photographers have returned to using film cameras. Most experts pinpoint the start of the switch to about the time this thread was pointed.

Edited on Sep 08, 2009 at 06:27 PM · View previous versions

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:23 PM

Andrew Welsh
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p.2 #9 · Flare..UPDATE

must be the 50L, I have been doing flare w/my 5DII and no burns anywhere.

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:24 PM

Sam Hassas
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p.2 #10 · Flare..UPDATE

Homey wrote:
Ahh I see.
Thats possible.
Depends on how hot the Mk 1 sensor has gotten before.

I'll shut up and wait for Sam to tell us if he shot more flare shots with the Mk uno and there are no issues.

No nothing ever happened to the MK1. I shot with it for about a year longer then the MK2 and with no second body to absorbs some of the use. The 5Dmk1 got a lot of flare time.

A lot of things have to go just right to get that kind of a beam on the sensor. If the suns out, I shoot for flare. Period. I've had about 100 shoots this year and from the looks of things, The beam focused 4-6 times. Different days? Same Days? Who know? It's probably tough to do actually. Your chances greater with how often you shoot into the sun I imagine.

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:26 PM

Sam Hassas
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p.2 #11 · Flare..UPDATE

OH!! I NEVER use a hood. Hoods are in a box in the garage. No filters of any kind on any lens.

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:26 PM

sboerup
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p.2 #12 · Flare..UPDATE

I'm not buying this that it is flare. I had 2 5D1 bodies exhibit the strange looking marks, but nothing was wrong with it. I can understand the whole "large magnifying glass" concept, but I'm not buying it. Light coming through the lens is focused and splits the image at the center of the aperture, NOT at the are where the affected "melted" area is. I have my doubts about it, but if it comes back fixed I'd be curious to what they find.

Can we call mythbusters on this one?

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:28 PM

MPLS_photog
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p.2 #13 · Flare..UPDATE

Actually -- if you think about the main diff between 5D and 5DII it's the live view feature where the shutter opens up completely exposing the sensor for long periods of time.

Sam did you ever use live view in composing flare shots?

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:30 PM

mauriceramirez
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p.2 #14 · Flare..UPDATE

I just checked and the D700's mirror box appears to be metal, not plastic. Nikon FTW.

...But we don't have a 85mm f1.2 and that was probably the culprit magnifying glass. =-(

Anyway yeah I think Canon should repair it free of charge, since shooting into the sun is arguably a normal use thing.

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:31 PM

Sam Hassas
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p.2 #15 · Flare..UPDATE

MPLS_photog wrote:
Actually -- if you think about the main diff between 5D and 5DII it's the live view feature where the shutter opens up completely exposing the sensor for long periods of time.

Sam did you ever use live view in composing flare shots?

Bingo! Rarely but yes.

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:31 PM

Sam Hassas
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p.2 #16 · Flare..UPDATE

mauriceramirez wrote:
I just checked and the D700's mirror box appears to be metal, not plastic. Nikon FTW.

You bastard.

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:31 PM

sboerup
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p.2 #17 · Flare..UPDATE

Think of how a magnifying glass melts things, its focused onto one tiny little point. That small point is going to be nowhere near the sensor area, so I'm calling this bogus on "melting from sun flare".

I think it could be a glue that oozes or seeps from somewhere due to heat build up from prolonged use. Again, I've seen multiple Canon cameras show this same stuff (2 of them were mine, I've had friends shown the same thing) and I don't know what it is, but it didn't affect my cameras.

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:33 PM

MPLS_photog
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p.2 #18 · Flare..UPDATE

Yeah it could have definitely been from that. The stress on the sensor during that mode is already hot enough that you can't run that mode for longer than 10mins? in normal mode. Now combine that direct sunlight and assuming the lens was like the 50 1.2, could have been a deadly combination. Guessing Canon doesn't have a failsafe sensing system built into it to stop live view mode like Nikon does with the SB900 flash overheating.

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:35 PM

Homey
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p.2 #19 · Flare..UPDATE

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:36 PM

Grieverlust
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p.2 #20 · Flare..UPDATE

I have actually tried to start a fire with my camera lenses on a "nature outing". I have to admit it is pretty hard to do even with direct sunlight.. And by pretty hard I mean I found it impossible. I doubt the flare actually caused those burns. Sorry to see your camera damaged though. Best of luck to you! Oh and amazing work as always.

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:37 PM

sboerup
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p.2 #21 · Flare..UPDATE

Im suspecting heat buildup from internal wiring and circuit boards, still, it never affected my cameras to send them in. I will continue to shoot w/flare.

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:38 PM

Grieverlust
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p.2 #22 · Flare..UPDATE

Actually if I remember correctly when the light is focused at a point it is internal to the lens at the aperture diaphragm right?

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:38 PM

huguito
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p.2 #23 · Flare..UPDATE

If the sun does that kind of a damage to a plastic piece when I shoot sideways to the direct sun light to get a flare.

HOW MUCH IS IT BURNING MY LEFT EYE?

Hugo

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:39 PM

Mike Mahoney
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p.2 #24 · Flare..UPDATE

huguito wrote:
If the sun does that kind of a damage to a plastic piece when I shoot sideways to the direct sun light to get a flare.

HOW MUCH IS IT BURNING MY LEFT EYE?

Hugo

Different all together, you're seeing through the VF and the light from the lens is focused on the sensor.

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:43 PM

Sam Hassas
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p.2 #25 · Flare..UPDATE

sboerup wrote:
I'm not buying this that it is flare. I had 2 5D1 bodies exhibit the strange looking marks, but nothing was wrong with it. I can understand the whole "large magnifying glass" concept, but I'm not buying it. Light coming through the lens is focused and splits the image at the center of the aperture, NOT at the are where the affected "melted" area is. I have my doubts about it, but if it comes back fixed I'd be curious to what they find.

Can we call mythbusters on this one?

Well, I'll be certain to post what they said. I had 2 lenses go in last week and sent back. The damage anylysys was very vague. It would be nice to actually talk to the technician who repairs my body. I'd love his/her thoughts.

Glue though? Really? Seems far fetched but anythings possible. Again, after explaining the issues, burns and symptoms, Canon said it was likely due to shooting into the sun. The jury's still out.

Sep 08, 2009 at 06:43 PM


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