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Archive 2009 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers

  
 
Greg Schneider
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p.1 #1 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


I haven't found any detailed numbers yet...are there any official measures of how many fractions of a stop better the noise is than the 50D? It certainly looks somewhat improved.


Sep 01, 2009 at 10:21 AM
reason
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p.1 #2 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


I'd love to see it too. So far this 7D has most of the specifications from 60D. Not sure why they decided to change their numbering system. Doesn't make any sense! If you don't follow Canon's line it's maybe very confusing for those who just want to buy a camera and need a few choices.

As for ISO noise, they didn't go for 25K so maybe it was all left at the level of 50D. 50D noise performance was a failure and at ISO 1600-3200 didn't really deliver any better performance than my good ol' 40D.



Sep 01, 2009 at 10:55 AM
keithreeder
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p.1 #3 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


Errrrmmm..

How can the 7D have most of the specs from a non existent camera?



Sep 01, 2009 at 10:58 AM
Lars Johnsson
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p.1 #4 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


reason wrote:
I'd love to see it too. So far this 7D has most of the specifications from 60D. Not sure why they decided to change their numbering system. Doesn't make any sense! If you don't follow Canon's line it's maybe very confusing for those who just want to buy a camera and need a few choices.

As for ISO noise, they didn't go for 25K so maybe it was all left at the level of 50D. 50D noise performance was a failure and at ISO 1600-3200 didn't really deliver any better performance than my good ol' 40D.


Yes but the specs from the 60D came from the 3D



Sep 01, 2009 at 11:00 AM
alundeb
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p.1 #5 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


Ok, you asked for it.

I dissected a sample raw file from imaging-resource.com at ISO100, no NR, with IRIS.

It appears that the non-illuminated pixels are included in the file.

Found some numbers.


The Black Level offset is changed to 2048 (used to be 1024)

The read noise Sigma is around 4,7


The histogram maxes out with a barrier at 13580.
BL subtracted: Saturation at ADU 11532

Dynamic Range: 11,26 stops.
Dynamic Range normalized to 8 MP: 11,85 stops

Note that this doesn't tell anything about photon collection efficiency, as the system gain is unknown.
Neither does it tell anything about SNR.




Sep 01, 2009 at 12:51 PM
Daan B
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p.1 #6 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


alundeb wrote:
Ok, you asked for it.

I dissected a sample raw file from imaging-resource.com at ISO100, no NR, with IRIS.

It appears that the non-illuminated pixels are included in the file.

Found some numbers.

The Black Level offset is changed to 2048 (used to be 1024)

The read noise Sigma is around 4,7

The histogram maxes out with a barrier at 13580.
BL subtracted: Saturation at ADU 11532

Dynamic Range: 11,26 stops.
Dynamic Range normalized to 8 MP: 11,85 stops

Note that this doesn't tell anything about photon collection efficiency, as the system gain is unknown.
Neither does it tell anything about SNR.


And in "simple" English this means...



Sep 01, 2009 at 12:55 PM
alundeb
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p.1 #7 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


Sorry,

The 7D will have essentially the same Dynamic Range at low ISO as the 5DII, but apparantely without the visually problematic pattern noise.



Sep 01, 2009 at 12:59 PM
Daan B
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p.1 #8 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


alundeb wrote:
Sorry,

The 7D will have essentially the same Dynamic Range at low ISO as the 5DII, but apparantely without the visually problematic pattern noise.


Me understand now



Sep 01, 2009 at 01:00 PM
Yohan Pamudji
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p.1 #9 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


alundeb wrote:
Sorry,

The 7D will have essentially the same Dynamic Range at low ISO as the 5DII, but apparantely without the visually problematic pattern noise.


The same DR before taking into account the reduced DR of the 5DII caused by pattern noise, or after taking that into account?



Sep 01, 2009 at 01:10 PM
The Image
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p.1 #10 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


alundeb wrote:
Ok, you asked for it.

I dissected a sample raw file from imaging-resource.com at ISO100, no NR, with IRIS.

It appears that the non-illuminated pixels are included in the file.

Found some numbers.

The Black Level offset is changed to 2048 (used to be 1024)

The read noise Sigma is around 4,7

The histogram maxes out with a barrier at 13580.
BL subtracted: Saturation at ADU 11532

Dynamic Range: 11,26 stops.
Dynamic Range normalized to 8 MP: 11,85 stops

Note that this doesn't tell anything about photon collection efficiency, as the system gain is unknown.
Neither does it tell anything about SNR.


Can you put that in english for us



Sep 01, 2009 at 01:17 PM
alundeb
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p.1 #11 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


Yohan Pamudji wrote:
The same DR before taking into account the reduced DR of the 5DII caused by pattern noise, or after taking that into account?


The pattern noise is included in the noise figures for the 5DII. If the 5DII didn't have pattern noise, it would have a little bit more DR, but it is very difficult to quantify it.



Sep 01, 2009 at 01:33 PM
alundeb
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p.1 #12 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


The Image wrote:
Can you put that in english for us


The 7D will have more dynamic range than the 50D, even at pixel level.



Sep 01, 2009 at 01:42 PM
keithreeder
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p.1 #13 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


alundeb wrote:
The Black Level offset is changed to 2048 (used to be 1024)


Isn't that the trick Nikon uses to makes its shadows look cleaner at high ISO?





Sep 01, 2009 at 01:43 PM
alundeb
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p.1 #14 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


keithreeder wrote:
Isn't that the trick Nikon uses to makes its shadows look cleaner at high ISO?


No, actually the opposite.
Nikon (in some cameras) use a very small Black Level offset.

By using a larger black level offset, Canon allows for recording all possible noise (and signal) even at very high ISO's.



Sep 01, 2009 at 01:52 PM
keithreeder
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p.1 #15 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


Ah - I wondered if I might have that 100% back-to-front!




Sep 01, 2009 at 01:56 PM
Daan B
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p.1 #16 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


Check out lisy78's post at the bottom of the page on the 7D vs 5D2 pattern noise:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/809449/1

I think Brainiac should consider swapping his 5D2's for 7D's



Sep 01, 2009 at 02:14 PM
keithreeder
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p.1 #17 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


Aah, suhweeeet!

Thanks Daan.



Sep 01, 2009 at 02:19 PM
UCSB
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p.1 #18 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


Just go over to DPreview and look at the samples posted in the 7D preview ... they look very similar to my 50D images. Take a close look at the 1600 images ... I'm not seeing anything to lead me believe that the camera is going to come close to my 5DII.


Sep 01, 2009 at 03:56 PM
alundeb
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p.1 #19 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


Sorry, but I didn't take the time to explain the difference between Dynamic Range and Signal/Noise Ratio. I can't explain every bit of signal processing and noise in every post with some technical aspects, but here is a good read:

http://theory.uchicago.edu/~ejm/pix/20d/tests/noise/

Dynamic Range is nowadays only relevant in pushing exposures and doing shadow recovery. It says next to nothing about overall nosie level.



Sep 01, 2009 at 04:01 PM
dswiger
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p.1 #20 · 7D noise vs 50D numbers


Daan B wrote:
And in "simple" English this means...


"The Photon torpodoes might not work Capt'n"



Sep 01, 2009 at 04:18 PM
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