Landscapes With Mamiya 7II

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Archive 2009 · Landscapes With Mamiya 7II

philip_pj
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p.3 #1 · Landscapes With Mamiya 7II

It's heartening to see some interest at FM in large film cameras...speaking of lenses that really deliver the goods (many 4x5 lenses do not), I suggest either the 135mm APO Sironar-S by Rodenstock or the 150mm version of the same; 215 grams and 230 grams respectively. Wide angles, at least say 90mm FLs (eq 28mm in 35 land), are more like medium format lenses weight-wise - around 350-400 grams. Most are very affordable, and excellent value for what you get.

The 24-70mm pro lenses for 35mm DSLR weigh in at an alarming (to me) 950-1000 grams. The Zeiss ZA version has 19 elements in 13 groups.

Film really requires a decent spotmeter; not just my take, lots of the serious guys also. Pentax's digital weighs 250 grams.

Many of the lightweight 4x5s out there are less than solid, and the cheaper ones generally involve some engineering compromises.

I know many here like fine lenses for their qualities - here is a good read and reference for field-worthy 4x5 lenses:
http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/future.htm
Last note: that Fuji 240mm mentioned above, I believe, covers 8x10 and weighs 245 grams, takes 52mm filters.

Aug 23, 2009 at 11:58 AM

Lotusm50
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p.3 #2 · Landscapes With Mamiya 7II

stompyq wrote:
The anba and nagaoka are under 3lbs and are easily found for around $300 on ebay. I used to own one untill i stepped up to a wista and then the chamonix.

Heres a review of the chamonix

One thing you need to realise is that you don't take lenses of every focal length with LF. I have been very happy with my 90mm and 240mm lenses. The fuji 240A f/9 is tiny and hardly weighs any thing. I would suggest a light weight bright 150mm lens to start off. As for holders like i said go with a grafamatic. 6 shots and very little weight or bulk. and if you don't mind it i find the best LF meter is a small digicam!!

Yes, the Chamonix is around 3 lbs, the Wisner pocket field is about 3 lbs, the cheap Indian 4x5 is a bit under 3 lbs (but not really well made or very rigid), I had a Gowland for a while that was about 2 lbs, but was a PITA to use and set-up accurately, and had a Canham 45 DLC for along time (about 4 lbs.), and still have a Horseman. All of these are heavier than a lot slower to use than a Mamiya 7. And as I said "equivalent" lenses are as heavy if not more so than the M7's lenses. Surely there are slower 4x5 lenses (say, f8 max aperture) that are smaller, but they are less slower by a stop or 2 than the Mamiya lenses -- again sacrificing flexibility, speed, and convenience. And all those things like a meter and film holders all take up weight and can easily add another pound or 2, not to mention bulk.

While you don't take every lens with yon with a 4x5 -- I am well aware of that -- neither do you with the Mamiya 7. I usually take 2, the 43mm and 65mm. Sometimes 3 when I add the 150mm. 2 or 3 lenses, the same as i might take with a 4x5.

I'm not saying that everyone should replace their 4x5's with a Mamiya 7, but it's the next best thing and a great compromise when time, situation and patience really don't suit the use of the 4x5. Each has their place.

Aug 23, 2009 at 06:22 PM

mmurph
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p.3 #3 · Landscapes With Mamiya 7II

I used to take the Mamiya 7II with a 65mm in a smallish waist/fanny pack. Shoved in a few rolls of film and I was all set.

A 4x5 will require a backpack of some sort at least (with camera in a pack.)

I would recommend you take a look at the Fotoman. Much like a big Mamiya 7 in some ways. Solid body, so no tilt ort shift. But also no alignment problems! With the viewfinder very quick to use, and of course much larger film area. Great cameras!

You will have to find a used one, or stock at a store like www.mpex.com But worth the search!

I have cones for 90mm, 125mm,, and 150mm. I have a **great** Rodenstock 90mm 4.5 that is a killer lens, but a bit big and heavy. Plus a small Fuji 125mm that makes for a light kit, very much like the P&S in it's name.

http://fotomancamera.com/product_list.asp?id=335

Body Material: 6061 T2 Aluminum Alloy

Body Dimensions: 185mm width x 116mm height x 35mm depth

Weight: 1.08 kg (2.4 lbs) Body, Cone, Focus Mount and Viewfinder (no lens)

Edited on Aug 24, 2009 at 08:12 AM · View previous versions

Aug 24, 2009 at 07:56 AM

mmurph
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p.3 #4 · Landscapes With Mamiya 7II

IDURITA wrote:
Why you are contradicting yourself ?

You praise the Mamiya and it's lenses, but then you say, you want to sell the Mamiya

I loved the Mamiya 7! Great camera, I had a hard time selling it around 2003 or 2004. But it sat for 2+ yaers with no use ... 2 bodies, 3 lenses, etc.

I also have a Mamiya 645 AF. I bought it used maybe 2 years ago? Shot a few rolls of film with it, but never got around to having any of them developed, even just to make sure everything worked ok ..

.

Some cameras just aren't practical for the work we are doing at any given time. Every few months I think I should buy a Mamiya 7II, but I wouldn't really use it. A Canon 5DII is much more useful to me in many, many ways right now.

FWIW, favorite cameras I have owned: (totally OT)

1. Mamiya 7II w/ 65mm
2. Canon 1DsII w/ 24-70L
3. Fotoman 4x5PS w/ 125mm
4. Canon F1n w/ 35mm
5. Pentax 645N w/ 45-85

Aug 24, 2009 at 08:07 AM

IDURITA
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p.3 #5 · Landscapes With Mamiya 7II

Actually after some research in the internet the last days, I came to exactly the same conclusion. It does not mean that it does not fascinate me to think of doing LF, but I think that I would regret it, since I have simply not that much time beside my office job.

Right now I have a 5D, but in October (trip to Germany) I am going to by a 5D II.

Have to do compromises.

Aug 24, 2009 at 10:49 AM

SoundHound
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p.3 #6 · Landscapes With Mamiya 7II

I have a complete Mamiya 7 setup (2 bodies and 5 lenses). The bag is the same size as my DSLR but lighter. I am very happy with it. You can hike with a body and 1 or two lenses-very little weight. The shutter is in the lens (NO mirror slap-the anticlimactic clix is quieter than an old Leica M3) so you don't really need a tripod.

But I would suggest you buy the V700 (with wet scanning supplies) and scan your own negatives. I don't think you can afford the pro scans and will be unhappy with quick scans. I have a lab develop my film and I scan only selected negatives since I can view the chromes and fast scan the B&W for proofs. This costs me about $1/frame for 120 film.

The 80mm F4.0 lens shows 100mm Line Pairs (wide open!) in a test I saw which beats out all the others (Fuji 6x9 and Hasselblad, reflex, lenses). The wide angles are a bit less but still better than the others.

Sure the "look" is hi contrast. This is the "look" of superb lenses. But, as usual, with slow reversal film if you shoot in bright sunlight you will get blocking in the shadows and must be careful with the highlights-nothing new there. If you shoot B&W you have quality unique to B&W film.

Consider how big you want to print. I, often, shoot 2 to 4 6x7 cm frames to scan and stitch for a panorama. In color and 16 bits this makes for a huge (over 500Mb) merged file equal to a cropped 4x5. That will make a print that won't fit many walls. This could give you a good start.

Mar 15, 2010 at 04:29 PM

mrladewig
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p.3 #7 · Landscapes With Mamiya 7II

I've seen alot of good images with the Mamiya 7 as well. Its a very sharp camera, compact, lightweight and well suited to landscape, but the parallax issue of the rangefinder is something to consider if you want to shoot the sweeping ultrawide vistas common these days. Also being a rangefinder, I think there are some troubles in accurately placing GND filters. Its much lighter than the common RB/RZ67 and Pentax SLR cameras and that can be a big benefit.

I shoot mostly 4X5 myself. Its a VERY different process, but I find it very rewarding. A view camera is very different from an SLR or Rangefinder. Its generally very slow to shoot with the view camera, but you can shoot with a very fine degree of control. For large prints without breaking the bank, this is THE format to go with. Used modern 4X5 lenses (1970 and newer) can start as low as $150 and most lenses can be found for less than $500. The very best, newest designs are more likely to be in the $900-$1500 range, but they aren't absolutely necessary to get killer images. My entire 4X5 kit including my Epson flatbed cost less than a 5DII body.

As far as film goes, I use a wide variety. Velvia isn't one of my favorites, but I use it when its the best fit. My favorite slide film for scanning is Kodak's E100GX, though it has been discontinued and was primarily available for the 35mm and 120 formats. It just scans so easily. If you get a Mamiya 7, find some of this film! It's like putting an intensifier on the warm tones without affecting the purity of the blue tones or neutrality of the neutrals. In color negative, for big enlargements, I like the two Portra 160 films. I use VC most of the time, but they're both really good.

To finish this off, you'll need a scanner. If you REALLY want big prints, find yourself a drum scanner and learn the process. If you want easy big prints, get a Nikon LS-8000 or 9000 and a 6X7 camera. It'll put out ~100MP 14 or 16 bit image files from 6X7 film. If you go the large format route, an Epson is the consumer choice and they'll produce ~110MP 16 bit images. The cheaper route is the 4X5 + flatbed + better scans when needed. The Mamiya 7 costs more than most 4X5 field cameras and the Nikon LS-8000 and LS-9000 are about 4X the cost of a V700.

Mar 15, 2010 at 08:04 PM

philip_pj
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p.3 #8 · Landscapes With Mamiya 7II

It's hard, there are many factors involved so if it's an either/or situation a high Mp DSLR is probably better for most people. The downstream factors are a big set of issues for big film: processing, scanning, post work...I never saw the point of having superior IQ (and the Mamiya 7II gives better than even the best DSLRs by well, not much these days) and throwing most of it away with an Epson scanner.

So that is a big impost for a new to MF/LF person. Yes, scanners will retain value as they don't make most of the good ones anymore, or they are special/back order. Then, scan software, then film's peculiarities in post. On print size, if excellent exposure/tripod/cable release etc., with drum scans plus high end contone printer (Lightjet, Lambda, Chromira) or high end inkjet, enlargement ratios up to around 8-9x are considered excellent quality - so the Mamiya 7 will yield fabulous prints out to 24x20. Need more, get a bigger cam (or lower your standards)!

What has not been mentioned thus far is the abysmal shot rate of LF. My guess is most shooters manage just a handful of frames on a good day. With landscape, conditions intrude mightily (snow, rain, wind usually produce the best light) and hand cameras have very real advantages in setup time/film handling.

With 220, 20 shots is a lot, allows for bracketing (exp and/or focus/wind) and you can shoot off the cuff with wide DR film like color neg or Astia, maybe E100G, and certainly BW. You can jump out of a bus/jeep and get off a shot pretty quick, or take a shot you see just before dusk. These are shots you would **never** have the chance to get with LF.

I have to say that parallax is a non-issue for all but a tiny % of shots, like macro shots. Same as with MFD, M7 is the wrong tool for this job.

And accurate cropping - with giant film real estate, does it really matter if you lose 2-3% to final crop - no. Same with compositions that do not fit your camera's aspect ratio...what are you gonna do, carry five cameras? No, crop a little. I guess I feel that MF is about getting the shot, LF is about getting the best shot, with a heavy cost.

Film, agree Velvia or Provia *in the right conditions* is just magic, but Spiro, Jack Brauer's images on the linked page illustrates why so many people dislike narrow DR slide film. No shadow detail where it should exist, fields of blocked up shadow, over the top mntn blues, gamut busting color. These images need better sharpening also. The answer is Astia 100F, but you will not be able to reproduce Velvia with it, even with sophisticated color work in post. Astia scans better than even the E100 films, IMO, and has...elegance.

On the Mamiya RF lenses, I saw an BW image from a 5DII/ZE 35 the other day and it looked so familiar - it was very close to the Mamiya's output - biting fine detail with high contrast.

I also have an (almost unknown) Fuji GA645 which has produced some of the finest images I have taken. It's a small, retractable lens camera (60mm f4) with pretensions to AF but a deadly meter, and, mm for mm, is probably 'better' IQ than the Mamiya 6/7s. Cost me 500 bucks, and it is the 'never sell' film camera for me.

Those Fuji lenses are all killer quality, but the 690 series is large and clunky, a mid level LF lens in a big RF body. The Fotomans are a great idea, nearly bought a 6x12 once for the 2:1 aspect ratio, a favourite. If I have already mentioned, anyone keen on LF landscape should read anything written by Kerry Thalmann. Said too much again, sorry.

Mar 15, 2010 at 10:58 PM

mrladewig
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p.3 #9 · Landscapes With Mamiya 7II

philip_pj wrote:
What has not been mentioned thus far is the abysmal shot rate of LF. My guess is most shooters manage just a handful of frames on a good day. With landscape, conditions intrude mightily (snow, rain, wind usually produce the best light) and hand cameras have very real advantages in setup time/film handling.

That depends on your goals, preparation and patience. Are there shots I've missed when using the LF system? Yes. Are there shots I've screwed up? Definitely. But I normally get the shot I'm after. So what if I only shoot 5 images in a day? So what if I shoot 50 or 5000? How many will make it to print?

Mar 15, 2010 at 11:51 PM

EB-1
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p.3 #10 · Landscapes With Mamiya 7II

smcphotos wrote:
I'm considering purchasing this rangefinder camera for shooting some landscapes. I like the large negative size and small weight of overall packaging.

Does anyone have experience or samples shooting landscapes with this camera setup? I'm considering it as a light-weight alternative to 4x5.

Yes. I had a couple bodies and all six lenses, including the 210/8 "mountain" lens. The optics are top notch, very sharp and close to APO. The 43 and 50 are very impressive wides, but not corrected for light falloff. Consider a center filter. Metering is not the most accurate so I used an external spotmeter.

However, there are just too many limitations to 6x7 without movements and the gap between 80 and 150 was annoying. That was all in the old days. Nowadays, panning and/or shifting and stitching FF digital images go a long way toward my high-res needs.

EBH

Mar 15, 2010 at 11:59 PM

Mr Joe
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p.3 #11 · Landscapes With Mamiya 7II

I shoot with a 5DII, and my second camera is a Mamiya 7II. Both cameras have their purpose.

If you need the movements of 4x5, then a 6x7 rangefinder isn't what you want. If you don't care about movements, the 6x7 format is great, the camera is easy to use, and the lenses are extremely sharp.

If you live in or close to a major metro area, rent a Mamiya and try it out.

Mar 16, 2010 at 02:04 AM

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