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Archive 2009 · PCB PLM system shipping!
  
 
E-Vener
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p.26 #1 · PCB PLM system shipping!


I'll show you tomorrow.

Aug 24, 2009 at 03:15 AM
Calbeee
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p.26 #2 · PCB PLM system shipping!


E-Vener wrote:
I'll show you tomorrow.



cant wait to see

Aug 24, 2009 at 03:17 AM
Paul Buff
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p.26 #3 · PCB PLM system shipping!


shoebox9 wrote:
Wow, Paul's post above killed this thread cold for over a day.

Here's my read-

* This is potentially good for some people buying PLMs to use with Elinchrom RX/BX/Ranger/Quadra/etc, because Elinchrom strobes have a curved back plate to focus more light forward. This creates a hotter centre than the PCB strobes that the PLM's were designed for. PLM's with a manufacturing flaw that causes a 3/10 f darker centre with PCB strobes, may actually be more ideal for Elinchrom users seeking a smooth even light.

* Those using PCB strobes with the PLM reflector, and the silver or white PLM's WITHOUT the front diffusers, are uneffected.

* People using PCB strobes who also bought the front white diffusers, are worst off, because trying to move the strobe 4" back with the front diffuser in place, presumably won't work.


Sorry - wrong on every count - no offense.

The slightly dark center is not a function of the angle emitted by the flash and it's sub reflector - it's a function of the angle of the PLM fabric relative to the distance from the source. So I wouldn't expect any change in the pattern from an Elinchrom VS a bare bulb. You'll have less light at the edges of the PLM fabric. but the projected pattern should be approximately the same.

This also applies to using the PLM reflector VS bare bulb (AB/WL have a flat back plate, so the angle of emission is about 210° VS about 170° with the 7" PLM reflector.)

The position of the source, when using the white front diffuser has no dark center. The physics are entirely different and the beam is very wide with no anomalies.

Though a slight technical flaw, it shouldn't cause any significant problems in actual use - just position the flashtube slightly forward of the umbrella edge. The 7" PLM will still block any side spill. I am refining the umbrella curve as we speak, but it will be probably three months before any changes show up on production units.

It's very hard to translate a CAD design to fabric and bent rods. It's also difficult because of the segmented shape - it becomes a calculate - build - test deal. Then you have to hope the vendor exactly repeats the fabric shape, sewing and stretch factor between sample and production. Believe me, trying to control and communicate all this to a Chinese vendor is especially difficult.

I'l love to build this in America but there simply aren't any umbrella factories left and the cost would triple. To try to build it in our factory would involve setting up sewing machines and hiring a very-difficult-to-find product engineer/supervisor and non-existent US sewing workers.

As a note, I believe every test shot published here is positioned such that it has a broad center darkening of about 3/10f . . . this is pretty hard to see in typical shots and is likely discernible to the eye only when shooting against a flat wall or seamless.


Aug 24, 2009 at 04:40 AM
el_hoppy
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p.26 #4 · PCB PLM system shipping!


I have the EL 190cm indirect octa and just wonder what advantages I would get for a PLM?

My gut feeling that in the studio is that it would be that greatly different from what I get now without the diffuser, sure the PLM light would be more focused and as a result I will need less power.

Outside is where I guess the PLM will have it's advantages for me. If I was to shoot, say for example, a car and wanted a large light source to light the scene, the power advantage of the more focused light will be useful and the weight savings will be an advantage.

Am I on the right track?

I was just thinking that it should not take too much effort to adapt my EL Ringflash to take a centre mounted umbrella. I assume that this would be a good light source when using the PLM?

Aug 24, 2009 at 06:30 AM
shoebox9
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p.26 #5 · PCB PLM system shipping!


el_hoppy wrote:
I have the EL 190cm indirect octa and just wonder what advantages I would get for a PLM?


If you mean both with front difuser panels, then the obvious advantages are weight (ie when used up high), outdoor location speed, and being able to treat the PLM's as disposables, if there is damage during a location shoot.

Don't think the light will be the same though. Did you notice a couple of pages back, that the "with PLM" pic had the reflection of the PLM, complete with (dark) strobe, in the middle of the subject's forehead? This is typical of brolly boxes, as opposed to SB's where the strobe is inside or at the back.

If your subject's skin is partially like a mirror (more apparent with contolled studio lighting) then the type of modifer you use makes a big difference to the reflection patterns on their face/forehead.


Aug 24, 2009 at 07:26 AM
rscheffler
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p.26 #6 · PCB PLM system shipping!


Calbeee wrote:
E-Vener wrote:
a second test. This time with an Elinchrom Quadra head @ 400 w/s. My guess is that the distance from the edge of the PLM to the front of that house is roughly 70 feet.

how do u mount the PLM to quadra, aren't they 7mm shaft?


Ellis posted this link a number of days back:

http://www.ellisvener.com/data/web/PM_Quadra/index.html

Aug 24, 2009 at 07:32 AM
E-Vener
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p.26 #7 · PCB PLM system shipping!


Thanks Ron!


The most important thing is to get the light source as close as possible to the shaft of the PLM.

I've played with simplifying my jerry-rigged attachment but that is still the most technically elegant ( fewest pieces + most strength @ lowest price)

The silver metal clamp is a Lowel Lobo clamp. They go for about $36.00 for a pair. The Lobo clamp is very useful for other jobs as well, like attaching a flag frame or filter holder to the same light stand a light is on. And the other part is a 5/8th inch diameter stud.
In place of the Bogen/Manfrotto tilting umbrella stand attachment I've also used an Avenger grip head.

links:

Lowel Lobo clamp:
http://www.lowel.com/clamps.html

Manfrotto 026 Swivel Lite-Tite Umbrella Adapter
http://www.amazon.com/Manfrotto-026-Lite-Tite-Umbrella-Adapter/dp/B001ENW61I

Avenger D200 Grip Head: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/3581-REG/Avenger_D200_D200_Grip_Head_.html


Aug 24, 2009 at 11:59 AM
David King
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p.26 #8 · PCB PLM system shipping!


I should have my 86" silver by Monday next week. Would be my first time trying out any modifier this big so should be interesting trying out various things.

Aug 24, 2009 at 02:51 PM
roanjohnnyc
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p.26 #9 · PCB PLM system shipping!


Paul - HOw are the beauty dish going??

Aug 24, 2009 at 03:11 PM
Paul Buff
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p.26 #10 · PCB PLM system shipping!


roanjohnnyc wrote:
Paul - HOw are the beauty dish going??


The beauty dish is ready shipping by air from China in about one week. I am doing a series of documentation and mannequin shots this week. Same for PLM.

I reworked the BD mold to get it how I wanted. IMHO it is fantastic in all regards, I'll post results as soon as I have them.

I have also reworked the molds for 11" high output and 8 1/2" high output three times and expect pre-production samples in about 10 days.

Aug 24, 2009 at 05:44 PM
 



el_hoppy
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p.26 #11 · PCB PLM system shipping!


shoebox9 wrote:
el_hoppy wrote:
I have the EL 190cm indirect octa and just wonder what advantages I would get for a PLM?


If you mean both with front difuser panels, then the obvious advantages are weight (ie when used up high), outdoor location speed, and being able to treat the PLM's as disposables, if there is damage during a location shoot.

Don't think the light will be the same though. Did you notice a couple of pages back, that the "with PLM" pic had the reflection of the PLM, complete with (dark) strobe, in the middle of the subject's forehead? This is typical of brolly boxes, as opposed to SB's where the strobe is inside or at the back.

If your subject's skin is partially like a mirror (more apparent with contolled studio lighting) then the type of modifer you use makes a big difference to the reflection patterns on their face/forehead.

I guess what I am more thinking of is using the PLM as a large light source, to light the "scene" maybe a whole car or a laneway, and then use a 2nd light on the model.

So the dark spot would not be an issue. It is just a matter of if the PLM would add a power advantage over the EL without the diffuser.

Aug 24, 2009 at 05:46 PM
bacilonur
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p.26 #12 · PCB PLM system shipping!


Paul, I haven't had a chance to test what you stated above about increasing the output 3/4f by bringing the strobe 3-4 inches further away from the umbrella's edge, but is that now the recommended position for maximum output? And will the PLM reflector still reduce the output, making bare-bulb the ideal configuration for outdoor use?

Aug 24, 2009 at 05:49 PM
Paul Buff
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p.26 #13 · PCB PLM system shipping!


shoebox9 wrote:
el_hoppy wrote:
I have the EL 190cm indirect octa and just wonder what advantages I would get for a PLM?


If you mean both with front difuser panels, then the obvious advantages are weight (ie when used up high), outdoor location speed, and being able to treat the PLM's as disposables, if there is damage during a location shoot.

Don't think the light will be the same though. Did you notice a couple of pages back, that the "with PLM" pic had the reflection of the PLM, complete with (dark) strobe, in the middle of the subject's forehead? This is typical of brolly boxes, as opposed to SB's where the strobe is inside or at the back.

If your subject's skin is partially like a mirror (more apparent with contolled studio lighting) then the type of modifer you use makes a big difference to the reflection patterns on their face/forehead.


I haven't seen any posted pic with "dark forehead". Can you point to examples where you feel you see this?

If you want softbox style lighting (lower contrast, wider angle of coverage, etc.) using the front diffuser will do this. Or use the white PLM with black cover.


Edited on Aug 24, 2009 at 06:01 PM · View previous versions


Aug 24, 2009 at 05:51 PM
Paul Buff
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p.26 #14 · PCB PLM system shipping!


el_hoppy wrote:
shoebox9 wrote:
el_hoppy wrote:
I have the EL 190cm indirect octa and just wonder what advantages I would get for a PLM?


If you mean both with front difuser panels, then the obvious advantages are weight (ie when used up high), outdoor location speed, and being able to treat the PLM's as disposables, if there is damage during a location shoot.

Don't think the light will be the same though. Did you notice a couple of pages back, that the "with PLM" pic had the reflection of the PLM, complete with (dark) strobe, in the middle of the subject's forehead? This is typical of brolly boxes, as opposed to SB's where the strobe is inside or at the back.

If your subject's skin is partially like a mirror (more apparent with contolled studio lighting) then the type of modifer you use makes a big difference to the reflection patterns on their face/forehead.

I guess what I am more thinking of is using the PLM as a large light source, to light the "scene" maybe a whole car or a laneway, and then use a 2nd light on the model.

So the dark spot would not be an issue. It is just a matter of if the PLM would add a power advantage over the EL without the diffuser.


There is no dark center when the PLM is focused with the tube slightly forward. Even when focused to a wider angle, the dark center is very broad, feathered and slight (about 3/10f) and not easily discernible in photos.

Aug 24, 2009 at 05:56 PM
Paul Buff
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p.26 #15 · PCB PLM system shipping!


bacilonur wrote:
Paul, I haven't had a chance to test what you stated above about increasing the output 3/4f by bringing the strobe 3-4 inches further away from the umbrella's edge, but is that now the recommended position for maximum output? And will the PLM reflector still reduce the output, making bare-bulb the ideal configuration for outdoor use?


The 7" PLM reflector doesn't drop the output significantly - perhaps 1/10f. Shooting bare bulb is fine and results in a bit of spill straight out to the sides - not visible in typical use.


Aug 24, 2009 at 05:59 PM
shoebox9
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p.26 #16 · PCB PLM system shipping!


Brent Ward wrote:
This image is copyrighted by the owner



Have a close look at the forehead of the subject in the above image. He doesn't have a skin blemish in the area above his nose, that's the reflection pattern- marred by the strobe in the middle of it.

This is typical of all brollyboxes, especially when used in a dark environment (ie a studio) but also often apparent when used close up as a strong primary light source outside. You won't see it with SB's/Octa's because their very center isn't dark.


Aug 24, 2009 at 10:17 PM
E-Vener
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p.26 #17 · PCB PLM system shipping!


Looks like a slight indentation between his brows to me. Also reasonably contrasty lighting. Can you post a zoomed in area of his forehead?

Aug 24, 2009 at 11:31 PM
Littlebike
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p.26 #18 · PCB PLM system shipping!


I would also say that is a shadow due to the shape of his brow, additionally, this is primarily side light so any dark sport should be on his temple, not the middle of his forehead.

The more I see the more likely I am to buy a silver one, I just need to see more real work samples.

Aug 25, 2009 at 12:00 AM
E-Vener
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p.26 #19 · PCB PLM system shipping!


I was experimenting last night during a shoot for a new band in the making: about a forty minute session set up on the fly at a drive through /walk up taco stand. Some of the frames have been color balanced others not. we were pretty much just playing around. Still you can see the light quality

http://www.ellisvener.com/data/web/Coronado2/index.html

In some of the frames you can see a reflection in the plate glass window in the background of the two lights used. Both were Elinchrom Quadra heads. The one on the right, the A channel (67% or total energy) , was the main light: I used a 42 inch white PLM on it. The B channel head (33% of total power) was used as a fill light with a 40" Photek Goodlighter II with the diffuser used.

The blurs are due to me dragging the shutter between 0.3 and 1/15th second.

Camera: EOS-1Ds Mark 3 with Canon 24mm TS-E II and 17mm TS-E lenses.

Aug 25, 2009 at 12:38 AM
Paul Buff
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p.26 #20 · PCB PLM system shipping!


Littlebike wrote:
I would also say that is a shadow due to the shape of his brow, additionally, this is primarily side light so any dark sport should be on his temple, not the middle of his forehead.

The more I see the more likely I am to buy a silver one, I just need to see more real work samples.

None of these perceived flaws have anything to due with the slightly dark center of the PLM. This darkening is only about 3/10f and would be about three feet wide and feathered. It's probably in these shots but not discernible.

Aug 25, 2009 at 03:01 AM
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