I have the 50D, 580exII and I'd like to be able to take my lighting to another level where the flash is off the camera itself. What's the best way and fairly inexpensive way to do this? Should I get a small device with a long cord that attaches to my camera and then connects to the 580exII; which I can use as a Master and use another 480ex as a slave?
Or, should I do something wireless?
Any suggestions/comments will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bob
I use the Cactus V4 triggers, not as well made, reliable, or with as long a range as a pocket wizard, but in my experience they work first time, every time, up to about 100 feet away, and for about $45 for a trigger and receiver.
Quick example of a situation I use them, and trust them to work everytime in -
Sorta depends on how far off camera you want it and how much of an investment you want to put in. The quickest and easiest way is the off shoe camera cord, which is what you have described in your post. It'll run you anywhere from $30-60 depending on brand, length, ect. You will have ETTL, but you are limited to the length of your arm/cord.
The next step up is off camera wireless triggers. As Chris mentioned above, Catcus or any ebay trigger for that manner, are pretty affordable. Reliability isn't 100% but it's a good place to start.
Cybersync (by Alienbee) and Elinchrom Skyports are the next ones up. They'll run you about $160-200 for the set. More reliable good compromise between price and functionality.
Last but not least. Industry standard pocketwizards, awesome range, very reliable, but will set you back about $260-400.
With those in mind, my suggestion is the same as Chris. Get some ebay triggers to start and use them until you outgrow them. They're pretty easy to learn, and you don't need an adapter. You may also want to invest in a lightstand, hot shoe umbrella mount and an umbrella to further explore off camera lighting.
Also, you may want to check the lighting forum for more advice/technique.
Thanks for your comments; $45 is definitely within my budget and probably would be something I need to explore further.
Chris Beaumont wrote:
Hi Bob,
I use the Cactus V4 triggers, not as well made, reliable, or with as long a range as a pocket wizard, but in my experience they work first time, every time, up to about 100 feet away, and for about $45 for a trigger and receiver.
I notice the cord length is about 3 ft and wonder if I could simply cut this cord and extend its length myself? It would be cool if I could connect something like a CAT5e cable connector on each end of the cord and then have the ability to use whatever length to ethernet patch cable I want. Is there a distance limitation?
Also, I'm a little worried that I might get the wiring wrong and short the camera out; but, it seems like it should work if I'm really careful. Are there longer cords available?
Thanks,
Bob
jerrywang1789 wrote:
Sorta depends on how far off camera you want it and how much of an investment you want to put in. The quickest and easiest way is the off shoe camera cord, which is what you have described in your post. It'll run you anywhere from $30-60 depending on brand, length, ect. You will have ETTL, but you are limited to the length of your arm/cord.
The next step up is off camera wireless triggers. As Chris mentioned above, Catcus or any ebay trigger for that manner, are pretty affordable. Reliability isn't 100% but it's a good place to start.
Cybersync (by Alienbee) and Elinchrom Skyports are the next ones up. They'll run you about $160-200 for the set. More reliable good compromise between price and functionality.
Last but not least. Industry standard pocketwizards, awesome range, very reliable, but will set you back about $260-400.
With those in mind, my suggestion is the same as Chris. Get some ebay triggers to start and use them until you outgrow them. They're pretty easy to learn, and you don't need an adapter. You may also want to invest in a lightstand, hot shoe umbrella mount and an umbrella to further explore off camera lighting.
Also, you may want to check the lighting forum for more advice/technique. ...Show more →
hardlyboring wrote:
cybersyncs or radio poppers. really the cybersyncs are fine and as long as you have a good connection with the cord they work every time.
Doug
This is what I was looking at from the start. The ST-E2 runs about $230 and it controls my 580exII up to 100 feet. I think the 580 can then act as a master and can control other flashes (like the 480exii) - correct?
Thanks,
Bob
Russ Isabella wrote:
The Canon speedlite transmitter ST-E2 offers another solution and affords you a number of set-up options.
levartze wrote:
The ST-E2 runs about $230 and it controls my 580exII up to 100 feet. I think the 580 can then act as a master and can control other flashes (like the 480exii) - correct?
Thanks,
Bob
You can use a 580EX as master over any other EX series flash anyway without the ST-E2, you'd only need the controller if you wanted to control both flashes off camera.
When you move a light off axis it creates dark shadows which need fill. Ideally fill should come from the direction of the camera, which is the only place it will reach every nook and cranny the camera sees. Thus a very effective location lighting solution is to have one Canon 580ex on a camera bracket as Master/Fill with a second Canon 580ex or 430ex flash off camera. It offers full control of the lighting from the Master flash in either ETTL (best for action shots) or M (best for static repetitive situations like portraits).
The 580ex as Master uses coded pre-flash commands from the main flash head, which gives it greater range than the lower powered ST-E2: 40+ ft. indoors and 25+ ft. outdoors.
Unlike the ST-E2 the 580ex as Master will also perform the vital role of fill. Many go down the road of buying a ST-E2 thinking its the cheapest way to get their 430ex flash off camera only discover that off camera flash with no fill is even less flattering that flat on camera lighting. Since they already have a 430ex + ST-E2 they buy another 430ex and wind up spending as much for a two light solution than they would have buying two 580ex.
My suggested growth path for Canon flash:
1) Start with a 580ex
2) Raise it on a camera flip bracket with the OC-E3 for more flattering downward direction which minimizes distracting shadows when one flash is used solo, or fill or frontal lighting when a second flash is employed
3) Add second 580ex. Just placing it behind the action will create a nice 3D effect via rim light. Placing it 45 degrees from person's nose and a few feet higher than eye line will produce a flattering short lighting pattern
See this tutorial of mine for an explanation of how the Canon wireless system works: LINK.
Brian,
Thanks for the comments and link! I'm glad I don't have to try and special make one of these cables!
Bob
BrianO wrote:
No; if the ST-E2 is on the camera, it becomes the master and the 580EX II (and any other EX flashes) would be the slaves. The ST-E2 can control one or two groups -- A and/or B, and can set A:B ratios remotely.
If you use a 580EX or EX II on camera (or connected by ETTL cord), it can set A:B:C ratios for even more control, and it can be set to fire a flash or not.
The biggest difference is that the 580EX will fire visible control pulses before the exposure, and the ST-E2 fires invisible IR pulses (with just a hint of barely visible deep red sneaking through the IR filter that you may be able to see if you're in a dark room).
Thank you for your link and tutorial. I've only got one 580EX 2 flash at present, but at some point will want to add an additional flash as you suggest. Your tutorial looks like it is exactly what I've been looking for.
Chuck,
Thanks so much for your comments!
The tutorial is great!
Bob
cgardner wrote:
When you move a light off axis it creates dark shadows which need fill. Ideally fill should come from the direction of the camera, which is the only place it will reach every nook and cranny the camera sees. Thus a very effective location lighting solution is to have one Canon 580ex on a camera bracket as Master/Fill with a second Canon 580ex or 430ex flash off camera. It offers full control of the lighting from the Master flash in either ETTL (best for action shots) or M (best for static repetitive situations like portraits).
The 580ex as Master uses coded pre-flash commands from the main flash head, which gives it greater range than the lower powered ST-E2: 40+ ft. indoors and 25+ ft. outdoors.
Unlike the ST-E2 the 580ex as Master will also perform the vital role of fill. Many go down the road of buying a ST-E2 thinking its the cheapest way to get their 430ex flash off camera only discover that off camera flash with no fill is even less flattering that flat on camera lighting. Since they already have a 430ex + ST-E2 they buy another 430ex and wind up spending as much for a two light solution than they would have buying two 580ex.
My suggested growth path for Canon flash:
1) Start with a 580ex
2) Raise it on a camera flip bracket with the OC-E3 for more flattering downward direction which minimizes distracting shadows when one flash is used solo, or fill or frontal lighting when a second flash is employed
3) Add second 580ex. Just placing it behind the action will create a nice 3D effect via rim light. Placing it 45 degrees from person's nose and a few feet higher than eye line will produce a flattering short lighting pattern
See this tutorial of mine for an explanation of how the Canon wireless system works: LINK.
Beyond basic wedding/event/on-the-run fill lighting from a bracket, a ST-E2 is a valuable IR trigger that gives you the option to use a (heavy) hot-shoe on-camera strobe w/bracket, or not. If needed you can just as easily fire the on-camera strobe with an ST-E2 on a hot-shoe and 580 on a flip-bracket without the need of a OC-E3 cord. The ST-E2 allows you to use ratioed light - diffused, or reflected from a larger source, or with accessories like snoots or honeycomb grids. Most "Strobist" lighting is shot with off-camera lighting, albeit IR or radio.
With one light you have about 3 ft. of coiled OC-E3 cord which is limiting, sometimes tempermental, and not as reliable as the former version. Verticals need to be shot from a bracket setup instead of simply holding the strobe within arms reach. Of course if you are shooting weddings then you don't want to be holding your arm in the air all day so a bracket is necessary. BTW: The OC-E3 costs about $70, one-third the price of a ST-E2, but if the device turns out to be one-dimensional then it's a waste of money.
I tried having my 580exii on camera setup as master and turned on flash and setup a friend's 430exii as a slave and set it up about 30ft+ away and it works great. I'm wondering if I can buy 2-3 of these 430ex's and set them up as slaves? If so, this should handle anything I'd need (for a while anyway).
Thanks for your comments and advice.
Bob
Barry Pehlman wrote:
Beyond basic wedding/event/on-the-run fill lighting from a bracket, a ST-E2 is a valuable IR trigger that gives you the option to use a (heavy) hot-shoe on-camera strobe w/bracket, or not. If needed you can just as easily fire the on-camera strobe with an ST-E2 on a hot-shoe and 580 on a flip-bracket without the need of a OC-E3 cord. The ST-E2 allows you to use ratioed light - diffused, or reflected from a larger source, or with accessories like snoots or honeycomb grids. Most "Strobist" lighting is shot with off-camera lighting, albeit IR or radio.
With one light you have about 3 ft. of coiled OC-E3 cord which is limiting, sometimes tempermental, and not as reliable as the former version. Verticals need to be shot from a bracket setup instead of simply holding the strobe within arms reach. Of course if you are shooting weddings then you don't want to be holding your arm in the air all day so a bracket is necessary. BTW: The OC-E3 costs about $70, one-third the price of a ST-E2, but if the device turns out to be one-dimensional then it's a waste of money.
Bob: If you can afford two 430EXII then I recommend you get a used 580EX or a second 580EX II instead... as Chuck would recommend. A three or four light hot-shoe strobe setup takes a lot of practice. Two 580s (same power) strobes is plenty for now IMO. The Canon flashes are not a substitute for AC powered strobes. You will eventually own both systems. Look into Alien Bees, and Sanyo Eneloop batteries for the hot-shoe flashes too.
"I have the 50D, 580exII and I'd like to be able to take my lighting to another level where the flash is off the camera itself. What's the best way and fairly inexpensive way to do this?"
go to strobist.blogspot.com and read their recommendations on how to get the flash off camera. read everything there, for that matter.
levartze wrote:
...I'm wondering if I can buy 2-3 of these 430ex's and set them up as slaves? If so, this should handle anything I'd need (for a while anyway).
With an ST-E2 as master, you can use as many slaves as you want, divided into one or two groups -- A and/or B.
Using a 580EX as master, you can have three groups -- A, B, and C. A and B groups would work the same on either system; full ETTL control, with variable ratios available. C group is a little different, as it's designed for background lighting, and instead of true ratios uses a fractional power setup.
It sounds complicated, but with a little practice (and Chuck Gardner's tutorials, and/or Tim Mantoani's DVD) you can come to terms with it fairly quickly.
