Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust? - FM Forums

Register · Search · Software · Join Upload & Sell · Hosting

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

FM Forum Rules
Canon SLRs, primes, and zooms lenses reviews

FM Forums \| Canon-mount SLRs \| Join Upload & Sell	Search Used
1 2 end

Archive 2009 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

NumberFive
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #1 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

EB-1 wrote:
joezasada wrote:
I would rather have a 1Ds2 without MA than a 50D with...

Exactly.

EBH
Tony: "I'm wondering if I should get a Honda Civic or Nissan Altima... or should I bite the bullet and get an Acura TL?"
You: "I'd rather have a new Corvette"

Kidding aside, Tony is a self-proclaimed enthusiast, not pro. Plus he needs lenses.

So what's your realistic budget, Tony?

Jul 03, 2009 at 06:04 PM

skibum5
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #2 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

northerner wrote:
I'm about to sell my 400d and was considering a 5d, 50D or possibly a 5d mark II. I don't have any lenses at the moment. Starting again. I tend to shoot landscapes and people. I'm an enthusiast rather than a pro.

I'd decided on the 5d until I saw the benefits of micro adjust. I tend to buy lenses on Ebay and was planning to buy some fast primes (24 f1.4, 50 f4 and 135 f2 with possibly a 24-70mm f2.8 L).

I love the shallow DOF and was considering FF for that reason. The 5d can be snapped up for a bargain but with the shallow DOF I'd like to use I imagine the micro adjust would be useful for tack sharp images).

I previously owned the 17-55mm f2.8 and wasn't impressed. May have been my camera or a bad copy. I was considering the 50D to be able to get the best out of this lens if I went for a crop camera.

Do I need to bit the bullet and get a 5d mark II?

There's far too much choice!

Thanks in advance,

Tony

well a used 5D and used lenses likely means no free calibration service (which is a pain anyway) and shooting with fast primes means you things DEAD on so.............

if you are unlucky though the lens might need a different MFA for near MFD, close-medium distance and far distance though which is also a pain and canon calibration can supposedly fix this (then again they calibrated my 50mm 1.4 and it still has this particualr issue as much as any lens I own, so maybe not....)

anyway with buying all used and shooting super low DOF not having MFA might be painful..... then again 5d vs 5dmkii price covers a lot of calibration fees..... then again at least you get all sorts of nicer features and better performance from the 5dmkii instead of wasted money and wasted time.....

Jul 03, 2009 at 06:27 PM

skibum5
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #3 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

keithreeder wrote:
northerner wrote:
It allows you to make fine changes to your AF to ensure your lenses are pin sharp. It avoids sending lenses back to Canon for calibration.

Oh, he knows - the point is, we've managed pretty bloody well without it so far, and while it's nice to have I suppose, I'd rather get the lens that needed it fixed...

It's also of little use for zooms.

that depends, so far my L zooms have pretty much needed the same MFA at all focal lengths. A few of my non-L zooms were a different story though....

worse is that near MFD and near infinity very often need a different MFA and sometimes it is worse than that (and een sending to canon they dont often adjust for this very well, if at all)

Jul 03, 2009 at 06:31 PM

northerner
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #4 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

Thanks for all the replies. Much appreciated.

I agree completely Skibum5. I thought the 5D mkII although a bigger outlay on the camera may mean less pain on the lenses.

I thought a budget of 3000 pounds would cover things but it may not be enough. I'm tempted to get a 5d mark II and Canon 50mm f1.4 initially. The 24 f1.4 is the lense I'm really looking for but it may have to wait. Also tempted to get the 24-70mm f2.8 to use whilst I save some more cash then trade it later (don't tend to lose much on eBay if you do that).

My bro is having a wedding early next year so would like to have my lenses by then ideally to give him some good extra photo's. I wouldn't offer to be the primary photographer. Too much stress

Thanks again.

Tony

Jul 03, 2009 at 06:34 PM

keithreeder
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #5 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

Some more reading: http://photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00TpPg

Jul 03, 2009 at 07:07 PM

Ernie Aubert
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #6 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

I'll offer two comments:

* I also was unimpressed with the 17-55 f2.8 IS. I wouldn't suggest the 50D route for that reason.

* AF Micro Adjust is a very useful feature for me; having it, I probably wouldn't buy another new camera that didn't have it.

Jul 04, 2009 at 12:07 AM

pingflood
Online
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #7 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

joezasada wrote:
I would rather have a 1Ds2 without MA than a 50D with...

I'm happy; I have both of those!

Honestly, I've never seen a lens be other than dead on on the 1Ds II. I've tried shooting some focus tests (high contrast card set on a ruler etc) and it is right on every time.

The 50D though has a much higher pixel density, and it did benefit from a +3 tweak on the 400/5.6. Not that it was visibly off other than when shooting tests and viewing at 100%, but since I had the option to do it I decided to give it a go.

Jul 04, 2009 at 12:11 AM

EB-1
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #8 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

The only AF adjustment errors I had with either of my 1Ds MK II pair were with Sigma lenses.

EBH

Jul 04, 2009 at 12:16 AM

NumberFive
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #9 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

Ernie Aubert wrote:
I'll offer two comments:

* I also was unimpressed with the 17-55 f2.8 IS. I wouldn't suggest the 50D route for that reason.

* AF Micro Adjust is a very useful feature for me; having it, I probably wouldn't buy another new camera that didn't have it.
What did you find lacking in the 17-55? I find it's a great match with the 50D. Not sure if this will work, but here's a 100% crop with the pair. No adjustments were made, this was straight out of the camera.

Jul 04, 2009 at 03:46 AM

skibum5
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #10 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

keithreeder wrote:
Some more reading: http://photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00TpPg

it is better to not adjust using small charts indoors at close range, yeah

for sports just go to the field and adjust in the field and then it's solid
and for other stuff i also just to test it on outdoor targets at a reasonable distance

if you use some shorter lens really close to MFD, perhaps redo it before shooting that way

anyway, i do think it is phenominally helpful

the old send it to canon cost moeny and often meant giving up important events in themeantime

Jul 04, 2009 at 04:35 AM

vpk24_astro
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #11 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

This works really well.
http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4708

Jul 04, 2009 at 10:19 PM

keithreeder
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #12 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

That's only part of the point of the Photonet thread though, Skibum.

The fact that the "correct" adjustment can depend on the focusing distance (which would be the case even on primes) is a bit of a bugger - fine if you do all your shooting at exactly the same distance from your subject (studio portrait photographer? Product shooter?) but a pain for birds, many sports and so on...

Even Bart Van Den Wolf (who came up with the clever solution linked to by vpl24_astro) says:

I suggest to calibrate at the most commonly used shooting distance if possible, because there may be differences between close and far focusing.

Changes in aperture could "overwhelm" smaller adjustments too. Not that this is a reason not to do the adjustment, I'm just pointing another reason why it's not the "one hit solution for all your focusing ills" that some folk seem to expect...

Don't get me wrong, it'll surely be in the next camera I buy, and that's fine, but it's not a cure for anything.

Jul 04, 2009 at 10:42 PM

trumpet_guy
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #13 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

While I would like to have microadjustment for my autofocus, I am living without it
and still getting good pictures. The 5D is still a very sweet camera.

Jul 05, 2009 at 02:10 AM

Azrael
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #14 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

Yes, MA is just BS really. If you have to use it that just means your lenses are not working properly so you should get thóse fixed by Canon.

Jul 05, 2009 at 02:51 AM

skibum5
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #15 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

Azrael wrote:
Yes, MA is just BS really. If you have to use it that just means your lenses are not working properly so you should get thóse fixed by Canon.

and be without your kit 2-3 weeks each time and then they don't even always do the best job every time either

it's a royal pain

and it lets you quickly know if there is a serious problem with your new body or if it is just calibration

sometimes new stuff comes out righ tbefore a major trip or event (like my safari and sports season the other year) and then you REALLY wish you had MFA.

Jul 05, 2009 at 03:19 AM

skibum5
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #16 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

keithreeder wrote:
That's only part of the point of the Photonet thread though, Skibum.

The fact that the "correct" adjustment can depend on the focusing distance (which would be the case even on primes) is a bit of a bugger - fine if you do all your shooting at exactly the same distance from your subject (studio portrait photographer? Product shooter?) but a pain for birds, many sports and so on...

Even Bart Van Den Wolf (who came up with the clever solution linked to by vpl24_astro) says:

I suggest to calibrate at the most commonly used shooting distance if possible, because there may be differences between close and far focusing.

Changes in aperture could "overwhelm" smaller adjustments too. Not that this is a reason not to do the adjustment, I'm just pointing another reason why it's not the "one hit solution for all your focusing ills" that some folk seem to expect...

Don't get me wrong, it'll surely be in the next camera I buy, and that's fine, but it's not a cure for anything.

in practice it works pretty well though since you don't often shoot right near MFD and then near infinity and back and forth like crazy

it did wonders for shooting 300 2.8+1.4x for sports for instance

Jul 05, 2009 at 03:20 AM

Ernie Aubert
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #17 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

NumberFive, the 17-55 I had didn't have much resolving power. I did a test one day with half a dozen lenses of different focal lengths with one camera on a tripod, using MLU and remote release. I shot portraits with the head similarly sized in the frame with each lens, even at different apertures. When looking at the CR2s in DPP, going to 100% view, the images from all the other lenses held together, but those from the 17-55 just fell apart. The general consensus is the IQ of this lens is exceptional, even L level, but mine wasn't. It could easily be my luck; Honda doesn't make any junk, everyone knows, but I got a dirtbike that was a lemon.

Jul 05, 2009 at 04:11 AM

synthesist
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #18 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

Hi,
Voice of reason here. Can you really justify thousands of dollars on a body if you're an amateur?

What I mean to say is:
For the pro, who uses this gear on a daily basis to win bread for his family, every little technological edge can make the job easier. At the end of the day, the camera will pay for itself in this way.

For the amateur, who is shooting his cat in the back yard, instead of the latest Calvin Klein underwear billboard, will these bells and whistles really make your photos much better. At the end of the day, when you print your 8x10's, are you REALLY going to notice your lens microadjustments?

My suggestion:
Forget about the new camera. Build a working collection of lenses. Use the cash to take a holiday instead (Canada is beautiful, come visit!), take lots of photos, and I guarantee you're going to cherish those photos much more than your 5d in a year, or even 10.

Jul 05, 2009 at 05:29 AM

Dawei Ye
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #19 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

Azrael wrote:
Yes, MA is just BS really. If you have to use it that just means your lenses are not working properly so you should get thóse fixed by Canon.
No. You forget the hidden costs of getting service, as eloquently put below

skibum5 wrote:
and be without your kit 2-3 weeks each time and then they don't even always do the best job every time either

it's a royal pain

and it lets you quickly know if there is a serious problem with your new body or if it is just calibration

sometimes new stuff comes out righ tbefore a major trip or event (like my safari and sports season the other year) and then you REALLY wish you had MFA.

^ OMFG + 1000000000000000000000000000000000

I can't believe how many luddite views there are about AF microadjust, just like there was about Live View, and the LCD screen, and AF...need I go on?

AF Microadjust is the difference between a quality lens and a paper weight. When you have weddings every week, you don't have time to send in your new 85L for calibration and be without it for 3 weeks

If you didn't have microadjust, you'd have no choice.

Even worse, the lens often comes back unadjusted so you have to play the game over and over again. I got fed up and I refused to play the game anymore and ended up buying cameras with AF microadjust.

Jul 05, 2009 at 09:41 AM

Dawei Ye
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #20 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

synthesist wrote:
Hi,
Voice of reason here. Can you really justify thousands of dollars on a body if you're an amateur?

What I mean to say is:
For the pro, who uses this gear on a daily basis to win bread for his family, every little technological edge can make the job easier. At the end of the day, the camera will pay for itself in this way.

For the amateur, who is shooting his cat in the back yard, instead of the latest Calvin Klein underwear billboard, will these bells and whistles really make your photos much better. At the end of the day, when you print your 8x10's, are you REALLY going to notice your lens microadjustments?

My suggestion:
Forget about the new camera. Build a working collection of lenses. Use the cash to take a holiday instead (Canada is beautiful, come visit!), take lots of photos, and I guarantee you're going to cherish those photos much more than your 5d in a year, or even 10.

I think this is an inaccurate generalisation. Photographers aren't exactly the best paid bunch in the world. I do professional work at times but am largely an amateur. My gear is more highly specced than almost every professional photographer I have come across. I can afford it because I have a day job, whereas photographers don't have another day job and have to make sacrifices like getting a 85 f/1.8 instead of a 85 f/1.2. This is also a generalisation I am making, but hopefully illustrates the danger of making generalisations.

Jul 05, 2009 at 09:43 AM

bluefox9er
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #21 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

I think MA will become a regular feature on the higher end canon bodies.

People tend to get a little carried away with micro adjustments. they do NOT make a 'bad copy' ( let's say for example a 24-70 f2.8 L which in all fairnes is likely to be a bad copy) into a GOOD copy. It won't adjust for sharpness, clarity,contrast etc. all it does is ADJUST for back/front focusing..NOTHING ELSE.

for people who own lots of lenses, this is a great feature.

you are a brave man to buy lenses from ebay!

Jul 05, 2009 at 09:53 AM

keithreeder
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #22 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

Dawei Ye wrote:

I can't believe how many luddite views there are about AF microadjust, just like there was about Live View, and the LCD screen, and AF...

Doubts about the "importance" of AF microadjust are nothing whatsoever to do with being a Luddite, and everything to do with simple common sense.

The way some people bang on about it, it's as it AFM was the most important thing ever to happen to digital photography, and that without it all of our lives are somehow fundamentally incomplete.

It's just another tool, and - at best - nothing more than a "nice to have if its available" one.

The OP's question is "could you live without it?" and the point some of us are vainly trying to make is not only that we can, but that we do.

Hardly the essential, life-changing miracle cure that some of you are trying to make it out to be then.

That's the point. We're not being "Luddite", about it, we're being adult about it.

Something else to consider...

Canon (or whoever) have a limited R&D budget: Some of us see things like AFM (or Live View or video) - firmware-based "improvements" - as being a disappointment when some of that limited budget could have been spent on a proper Auto ISO (the 50D's is getting close, but it's not there yet); or on delivering an xxD body that can AF natively at f/8 (there are hardware issues with that too, but they'll doubtless be introducing articulated LCDs soon, and I'm not interested in that "hardware improvement" either).

Hell, I'd find the ability to dial in a very slight delay into the AF of my 40D (another firmware thing) so that it doesn't immediately start to reacquire when something in the background distracts it, more useful than AF microadjust - and that ability already exists in the 1Ds (and in a lot of Noink bodies) so it's not as if they'd be starting from scratch there.

So no, not in any way Luddite.

Knowing what we want and not being distracted by every shiny new gadget that Canon throws our way like a fat kid in a cake shop when there are still some pretty fundamental basics that Canon could be spending their (our!) money on instead is why some of us are lukewarm about AF Microadjust.

need I go on?

I take it that's a rhetorical question, and that you will anyway...

Jul 05, 2009 at 11:14 AM

Tom Abbott
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #23 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

NumberFive wrote:
For your landscapes, that means you could zoom in at 10x and fine tune your focus for razor sharp images without having to review them and zoom in after the shot.

For landscapes, you would probably want to focus using the hyperfocal point, NOT focusing on a particular point within the scene...

Jul 05, 2009 at 04:38 PM

skibum5
Offline
Dedicated FM
Upload & Sell: Off

p.2 #24 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

keithreeder wrote:
Canon (or whoever) have a limited R&D budget: Some of us see things like AFM (or Live View or video) - firmware-based "improvements" - as being a disappointment when some of that limited budget could have been spent on a proper Auto ISO (the 50D's is getting close, but it's not there yet);

it doesn't take any budget at all to get a reasonable autoiso.

it's absurdly simple.

they obviously cripple it a bit to reserve some for 1 series (pretty silly IMO)

although even on 1 series they do some weird things like setting limits on how fast the min. shutter speed can be, ridiculous limitation, that could be fixed as simply as typing 4000 instead of 250 when coding.

in fact the new cams already do it perfectly in M mode for video and liveview shooting

Jul 05, 2009 at 06:40 PM

garyvot
Offline
Upload & Sell: On

p.2 #25 · Camera choice - would you live without micro adjust?

I shoot wide open with fast glass and have had a lot of AF issues over the years. Currently, all of my bodies (3) have AF micro-adjust, and I will not buy another new camera without this feature. Could I live without it? Yes, but my life is better with it.

Jul 06, 2009 at 11:00 AM


FM Forums \| Canon-mount SLRs \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 end