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Cathy Yount Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #1 · What is a second shooter? Hi everyone...this is a serious post...promise! I'm in the middle of working up some paperwork (going to send it to my lawyer soon) for all of my second shooters and I need some help coming up with the right language with what the expectations are for second shooters. This question is asked under the assumption that the shooter is hired and paid and not doing an internship or invited along for portfolio work. --Who owns the copyright? The photographer or the studio? --Are second shooters expected to be a photographer the entire time, or do they come with a blended job description of carrying equipment and shooting? --What happens when they terminate their employment? Do you have to take down their images from your website if they were paid, even if they own the copyright? Do you make them sign a non-compete clause? If so, for how long? --Do you allow the second shooter to post his/her images in their own promotion material? My only concern is the model release; it technically only covers the company they shot under. --How long do you normally wait to get their disc of photos? Do you have them use your cards? Do you make them give you the RAW files or edit the photos yourself? Do you have a set number of photos that you want them to deliver, so you don't have to weed through everything? --Is he/she responsible for bringing his/her own equipment? --What are your general expectations for your second shooter? Any help would be appreciated. Jul 02, 2009 at 08:36 PM

Chris Beaumont Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #2 · What is a second shooter? I won't (can't) answer ALL your points but --Are second shooters expected to be a photographer the entire time, or do they come with a blended job description of carrying equipment and shooting? I expect my second shooter to primarily capture candids that I might not notice because I'm too wrapped up in the formal stuff. She will organise/marshall/herd people during the formals (she's louder than I am) but I wouldn't use her as a roadie, I'm a big boy and can carry my own equipment. --What happens when they terminate their employment? Do you have to take down their images from your website if they were paid, even if they own the copyright? Do you make them sign a non-compete clause? If so, for how long? Second shooters are not, I believe, generally employees, but freelancers hired on a "per wedding" basis. --How long do you normally wait to get their disc of photos? Do you have them use your cards? Do you make them give you the RAW files or edit the photos yourself? Do you have a set number of photos that you want them to deliver, so you don't have to weed through everything? I take a copy of the RAW files on the day in question, either to a laptop or external HDD --Is he/she responsible for bringing his/her own equipment? Absolutely yes, a second shooter should have at least one decent body (I call this as XXD standard or better) a pro-spec standard zoom (ie 2.8) and some kind of telephoto option (not a 70-300 f/4-5.6!!) however my S.S. can (and does) borrow any of my kit that I'm not using at the point to get better shots (most commonly she borrows my 85 1.8) --What are your general expectations for your second shooter? A decent standard of general camera competency, friendly, good with people, helpful. I use Sue exclusively because I find her a good match for my style, we banter well keeping the clients amused (or at least not bored to tears) during lengthier shoots, and it's always nicer to have a second person there to bounce ideas off. Hope that helps in some small way. Chris Jul 02, 2009 at 09:21 PM

liza Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #3 · What is a second shooter? --Who owns the copyright? The photographer or the studio? You do. It's work for hire. --Are second shooters expected to be a photographer the entire time, or do they come with a blended job description of carrying equipment and shooting? Depends on your needs. I employ an assistant to pack all the heavy stuff and guard the equipment. He does not shoot a frame. --What happens when they terminate their employment? Do you have to take down their images from your website if they were paid, even if they own the copyright? Do you make them sign a non-compete clause? If so, for how long? When they terminate, I still retain copyright. I have not had my seconds sign non-compete clauses, although that's not a bad idea. --Do you allow the second shooter to post his/her images in their own promotion material? My only concern is the model release; it technically only covers the company they shot under. Absolutely not. --How long do you normally wait to get their disc of photos? Do you have them use your cards? Do you make them give you the RAW files or edit the photos yourself? Do you have a set number of photos that you want them to deliver, so you don't have to weed through everything? They use my cards and give them to me at the end of the day. --Is he/she responsible for bringing his/her own equipment? No. They use my Canon equipment. --What are your general expectations for your second shooter? Show up on time. Dress professionally. Take direction well. Promote my business, not theirs. Jul 02, 2009 at 11:01 PM

jcolman Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #4 · What is a second shooter? I think the term "second shooter" and "assistant" are really two different jobs. I've done a couple of weddings as a second and I've hired assistants so my remarks cover my thoughts concerning second shooters who bring their own gear. -Who owns the copyright? The photographer or the studio? The studio or the first photographer who hired the second. --Are second shooters expected to be a photographer the entire time, or do they come with a blended job description of carrying equipment and shooting? Depends on your circumstances but I've always been shooting the entire time. I will help the first photographer set up his gear but then I'm on my own. --What happens when they terminate their employment? Do you have to take down their images from your website if they were paid, even if they own the copyright? Do you make them sign a non-compete clause? If so, for how long? Second shooters are "work for hire" and are considered independent contractors. You own the rights to their images. Non compete clauses are not signed. I doubt you'd get a good second to sign one anyway. --Do you allow the second shooter to post his/her images in their own promotion material? My only concern is the model release; it technically only covers the company they shot under. Yes, both weddings I shot I had the right to use the images to promote my work. Your results may vary. --How long do you normally wait to get their disc of photos? Do you have them use your cards? Do you make them give you the RAW files or edit the photos yourself? Do you have a set number of photos that you want them to deliver, so you don't have to weed through everything? I either use my cards and burn a DVD of the RAW files or use the first photographers cards. I don't edit anything, however some photographers expect their second shooters to edit their work. --Is he/she responsible for bringing his/her own equipment? Yes. --What are your general expectations for your second shooter? Cover the shots that the first can't get. Concentrate on creative shots. Stay out the way of the first photographer and help whenever asked. Hope this is useful. Jul 03, 2009 at 12:25 AM

Lucky_Dog Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #5 · What is a second shooter? I don't know the legal answer for most of this, but I would think there is an issue whether an individual is an employee or a contracted vendor. From what I’ve been able to gather, if you are hiring someone as a "vendor" they had better be in business legitimately for himself or herself and you would furnish a 1099 at the end of the year. If they are not a vendor, but rather an employee, it opens up a whole new can of problems in as far as unemployment insurance, workers comp, etc. If you employ them, I'm fairly certain that you would own any work produced by them during the time they are employed. That’s my swing at it… now go ask an attorney/accountant and let me know the real answer. Jul 03, 2009 at 01:37 AM

jcolman Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #6 · What is a second shooter? Lucky_Dog wrote: I don't know the legal answer for most of this, but I would think there is an issue whether an individual is an employee or a contracted vendor. From what I’ve been able to gather, if you are hiring someone as a "vendor" they had better be in business legitimately for himself or herself and you would furnish a 1099 at the end of the year. If they are not a vendor, but rather an employee, it opens up a whole new can of problems in as far as unemployment insurance, workers comp, etc. If you employ them, I'm fairly certain that you would own any work produced by them during the time they are employed. That’s my swing at it… now go ask an attorney/accountant and let me know the real answer. Exactly. I had both my assistants sign a "INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR AGREEMENT AND VERIFICATION" form. It protects me and spells out the terms of liability and ownership of images. I've copied and pasted it below if you want to use it (with your studio name obviously instead of mine. If you want to use my studio name I'll expect a very modest 15% take of all your income ) INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR AGREEMENT AND VERIFICATION I hereby enter into a certain freelance arrangement and affiliation with Jim Colman Photography as a ________________________________________. (Position) I will be requested by Jim Colman Photography from time to time to do various tasks which will be irregular, unpredictable, sporadic and limited in nature. I agree that I am not an employee, agent, or joint venturer of or with Jim Colman Photography. Because there is no employer/employee relationship between me and Jim Colman Photography while performing these tasks, I understand and agree that I am self-employed and an independent contractor while performing these various tasks, and specifically agree as follows: _____________ (Initial) Independent Contractor. I am self-employed. I control the method and manner of how I perform any task I voluntarily accept. I am free to reject any task. I am not entitled to any benefits (worker’s compensation, health insurance, vacation, sick leave, etc.) from Jim Colman Photography _____________ (Initial) 2. Taxes. I am responsible for all taxes on any money I receive from Jim Colman Photography. I am solely and personally responsible to pay all appropriate Federal, State and local taxes, including but not limited to FICA, FUTA, or any other employment taxes. _____________ (Initial) 3. Injury. I am solely responsible for any injury I may suffer while performing any task. Jim Colman Photography does not offer worker's compensation or health insurance and does not cover me while I am performing any of these tasks. I understand that I am free to purchase my own worker's compensation and health insurance. ____________ (Initial) 4. Ownership of Images. You acknowledge that during your engagement you may photograph images for Jim Colman Photography. You agree that these images are owned wholly by Jim Colman Photography and/or his clients. However, you may use any images created by you to promote yourself either in print or electronic display. You agree not to sell or attempt to sell any images created by you to anyone unless permission is granted by Jim Colman Photography. As an independent contractor, I am free to quit or reject at any time any task I undertake and that I control the method and manner by which any task is to be completed. _________________ _____________________________________ DATE SIGNATURE ______________________________________ PRINTED NAME Jul 03, 2009 at 02:06 AM

Cathy Yount Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #7 · What is a second shooter? Important: Let me revise this to say we are talking about an independent contractor. Jul 03, 2009 at 02:41 AM

Cathy Yount Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #8 · What is a second shooter? Thanks Jim...that really helps. Jul 03, 2009 at 02:50 AM

hardlyboring Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #9 · What is a second shooter? colmans explanation is the best one. I second shot for years and I was just an independent contractor. Even though I never had to do all the fancy paperwork some people do their was a general understanding about things. I can also use the images I shoot to promote myself etc. I just cannot sell them. Doug Jul 03, 2009 at 05:14 AM

jprezant Online Buy and Sell: On p.1 #10 · What is a second shooter? liza wrote: --What happens when they terminate their employment? Do you have to take down their images from your website if they were paid, even if they own the copyright? Do you make them sign a non-compete clause? If so, for how long? When they terminate, I still retain copyright. I have not had my seconds sign non-compete clauses, although that's not a bad idea. I would never work for a photographer that made me sign a non-compete. I can't even imagine how you would write a non-compete for a fellow photographer. "You can't recruit clients in my geographical location for 2 years"? No way Jose! --Do you allow the second shooter to post his/her images in their own promotion material? My only concern is the model release; it technically only covers the company they shot under. Absolutely not. I use images that I acquire second shooting to promote myself. Why else am I shooting? Certainly not just to make money and stash those images somewhere where no one will ever see them. Despite not owning the copyright, I will retain the right to use the images for portfolio use...and a portfolio is used to self-promote. --How long do you normally wait to get their disc of photos? Do you have them use your cards? Do you make them give you the RAW files or edit the photos yourself? Do you have a set number of photos that you want them to deliver, so you don't have to weed through everything? They use my cards and give them to me at the end of the day. When I hire a second shooter, they use their own gear. This includes their CF cards. I download their RAW files to a portable hard drive on location / on the way back. I take all images and "weed" through. --Is he/she responsible for bringing his/her own equipment? No. They use my Canon equipment. As photographers, our gear is like a comfortable pair of shoes, and I would never make someone wear a pair of heels that were 3 sizes to small. --What are your general expectations for your second shooter? Show up on time. Dress professionally. Take direction well. Promote my business, not theirs. Agreed. In addition, they should be friendly. I think thats more important than taking direction well. I generally don't direct my seconds...or if I do, its one sentence, like "grab some shots of the flowers if you can". Jul 03, 2009 at 05:55 AM

liza Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #11 · What is a second shooter? Perhaps I should have added "YMMV" at the end of my post. There are really no right or wrong answers to these questions. Just different ones. Jul 03, 2009 at 06:17 AM

jprezant Online Buy and Sell: On p.1 #12 · What is a second shooter? liza- i wasn't trying to say that you were wrong, just my different take on it. Jul 03, 2009 at 06:22 AM

liza Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #13 · What is a second shooter? I understand that. My staff are just that...staff. They have no aspirations to go into business for themselves and do this solely for the money. My current second shooter was trained by me when she was still in high school and doesn't even own a camera. She has a natural eye for photography and does an excellent job. And I don't allow seconds to use images, due to my contract with the couple, which gives my studio (not the second) a release to use the images for marketing and promotion. When I second for other area professionals, this has been the customary arrangement, also. And honestly, I don't care to train someone to compete with me later, as there are way too many cheap shooters in this area already, so I use talented college students instead. Works for me. Jul 03, 2009 at 04:22 PM

Andrew Welsh Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #14 · What is a second shooter? good info here Jul 03, 2009 at 04:58 PM

alanwarp Online Buy and Sell: On p.1 #15 · What is a second shooter? Non-competes are murky water, sometimes not even successfully enforced by the largest of corporations. I imagine if you ever went after one of your seconds in violation of one (which would surely cost you some hefty lawyer fees), good luck getting another second to work for you...this isn't a multi-million dollar business we are talking about. Jul 03, 2009 at 08:20 PM

Cathy Yount Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #16 · What is a second shooter? I have to add/reiterate that the non-compete doesn't even apply any more because we're talking on a work-for-hire basis, not a full-time employee. Jul 03, 2009 at 10:09 PM

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