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Archive 2009 · Damnit. I'm selling my camera. Dave hill updated
  
 
jjlphoto
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Damnit. I'm selling my camera. Dave hill updated


The best thing I ever did was cancel my subscription to PDN. I do what I do, and have been steadily plugging away in obscurity for over 25 years.


Jun 26, 2009 at 01:31 PM
jtsmith
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Damnit. I'm selling my camera. Dave hill updated


I love it when we can't figure out how to create photographic art, we start criticizing the process.

These images are dynamic and if you break it down to just photography, the photography kicks all of our butts to shame. Period! Excellent control of lighting to give depth and it's clean. The subjects have emotion and meaning in every scene. 90 percent of photographers don't understand that 90 percent of the photograph in the first place is about the subjects emotion. The rest is just he said she said technical squabble to make someone feel more important to be a "real photographer" sound good.

It starts with dynamic photography and ends with dynamic art. Don't let the photography take away from the art and don't let the art take away from the photography.

J T








Jun 26, 2009 at 03:05 PM
Micky Bill
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Damnit. I'm selling my camera. Dave hill updated


pilles wrote:
What you envious souls seem to be missing is that his lighting (and that's not PS) and the posing and motivation of his models is top of the line. Without those two things, all the PS in the world would fall flat. You can master those, at least, and improve immensely, even by copying his lighting. But certainly do take a close look at his models. They act their parts with academy award skill!



Well said!



Jun 26, 2009 at 04:02 PM
pilles
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Damnit. I'm selling my camera. Dave hill updated


But don't forget, those pics are great partially due to your assistance!


Jun 26, 2009 at 06:15 PM
Samuel Gao
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Damnit. I'm selling my camera. Dave hill updated


I saw the whole "adventure girl" on the behind the scenes. Lots of elements are photoshopped. The rain was photoshopped in, Lightning, the tall rocks in the back (you can see the background when the girl was looking at the map. There was no huge rocks, let alone it wasn't raining, nor was it thundery. In fact it was a bright and sunny day). Regardless, I would like to learn his style to support my style! If you want to be on top, I guess you can't keep calling yourself the best. Rather, learn, and adapt. Adapt to your style of photography, that is.


Jun 26, 2009 at 11:55 PM
alphakappa
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Damnit. I'm selling my camera. Dave hill updated


What I loved from looking at the video was the amount of creativity that went into setting up each shot. Sure the final picture is digitally manipulated, but it involves a lot of work into meticulously setting up everything (and even before that, coming up with the concept) I know a lot of people who can take great pictures and do a damn good job of lighting it all up beautifully, but not everyone can come up with a complete scene and all the elements and put them together in a way that it tells you a story.

Which is why there's a lot of DPs and lighting guys that you never hear of but everyone knows Spielberg - putting it all together in way that appeals is a skill that's not easy to come by. For that reason Dave Hill will always be a cut above many other photographers.



Jun 27, 2009 at 12:32 AM
 


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runner301
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Damnit. I'm selling my camera. Dave hill updated


jodo wrote:
Look at his Nick Sabin - Alabama football shots. Great photos no? Assignment work for Fortune (or Forbes?) I recognized it on the newstand as his work before I knew it was his.



I saw those and was truly impressed. Anybody who can take a sneaky, lying rat like Saban and make him look kind and like he cares has a world of talent.

-signed
Michigan State Football fans




Jun 27, 2009 at 12:43 AM
Ravitej
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Damnit. I'm selling my camera. Dave hill updated


Normal Rockwell painted just like Hill's photos were created. He would get a concept and then take photos of the various parts and combine them into a painting. We all do it now with digital photography and the various programs. There is a huge book on Rockwell that shows exactly how it was done. If he were alive today, his stuff might look like Dave Hill.

It's all in the concept. The final image that is in the mind. The rest is data gathering to obtain the proper images. It was well explained when Hill spoke about the hang glider. He had little interest in what it really was, just what it could do for the final art. And the rest was again data gathering.

From what I have seen RianFlynn has different ideas in his head and different ways to gather data to obtain the necessary images for the final results. It's just different visions and different methods. And different results. That seem to get a lot of accolades on this forum.

RianFlynn is not Dave Hill and visa versa. And neither does the things I do, but I look at both works and think about what is useful to learn and implement in my own manner for my own clients.



Jun 27, 2009 at 01:44 AM
timgangloff
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Damnit. I'm selling my camera. Dave hill updated


Dave's work is pretty fun to look at. Just like a good photo, I look at it thinking "how?"

As far as Nick Saban and the AL football team, well as a TN fan I can only hope that his use of the players put them into a deeper probationary period. Again!



Jun 27, 2009 at 02:17 AM
cmillc22
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Damnit. I'm selling my camera. Dave hill updated


I want to be like Dave Hill when i grow up I like his stuff and would like to use it in some of my own work. I see that even Dave has changed his style some.


Jun 27, 2009 at 03:57 AM
Arka
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Damnit. I'm selling my camera. Dave hill updated


Bob YILDIRAN wrote:
Photography or PP artistry? Take a look at Rarindra Prakarsa's work who employs humble means (Rebel XT) and an amateur (!) staff but still fascinating results.


Rarindra's images are not devoid of post processing... in fact, there appears to be a fair amount.

However staring a series of over-processed pictures, no matter who was behind the camera, often leaves me with an impression similar to too much sugar in my tea.



The use of the pejorative (over processing) is a value judgment, and I won't assail it. However I find comments like this one interesting..

monoatomic72 wrote:
The rest though falls completely under the realm of digital art. While it does show a HUGE talent at being able to manipulate things in Photoshop and whatever other programs were used to create the final images, (and those images show the work, detail and absolute limitless things you can do with a computer and some know how) any of the "greatness" that the images could have been is lost when you have no idea what is real and what is processed.


To speak of an image's "greatness" in terms of post processing seems like a pretty artificial benchmark to me. I found a lot of them to be "great," simply because Dave Hill (and Rian) are artists who use a camera as one of several tools to achieve a certain creative vision. They've fully embraced the long understood notion that nothing that we shoot in a camera is real anyway. That vision, and the willingness to push the envelope, is definitely refreshing.

It seems to me that you are privileging artistry that comes out of a camera over the creativity that goes into setting up and integrating multiple images in a novel way. That's OK as a matter of personal taste, but it has nothing to do with an objective "greatness" that is gained or lost in the process of modifying data coming out of a camera.

I guess it's not a surprising bias on this forum, which is populated by members who see themselves as producers of "photography" rather than "digital art." Yet I never found the two categories to be mutually exclusive, or so inflexible that one could not readily encompass the other.

Dave Hill has done something that very few people here, aside from Rian, could do. He's lit and captured multiple images in a planned and deliberate way, and put them together into seamless, effective, and creative combinations. That you chalk up most of the work done to "Photoshop" and "some know how" seems overly dismissive to me. Even the "processing" requires an tremendous understanding of how to render objects and anatomy realistically using traditional and digital painting approaches. Those skills are more than mere "know how;" they are acquired over years, and often a lifetime, of traditional training in illustration techniques.

The work featured on Hill's site, and the work routinely offered by Rian, is a good deal more adventurous than the lion's share of unvarnished "photography" we see around here, even when it is produced by shooters highly skilled in the art. Hence, I have to agree with this comment;

jtsmith wrote:
It starts with dynamic photography and ends with dynamic art. Don't let the photography take away from the art and don't let the art take away from the photography.


It inspires me to see people who don't let labels and dogma limit their exploitation of the amazing tools we all have at our disposal.

Arka C.



Jun 27, 2009 at 09:19 AM
Ryanthedino
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Damnit. I'm selling my camera. Dave hill updated


lordarka wrote:
To speak of an image's "greatness" in terms of post processing seems like a pretty artificial benchmark to me. I found a lot of them to be "great," simply because Dave Hill (and Rian) are artists who use a camera as one of several tools to achieve a certain creative vision. They've fully embraced the long understood notion that nothing that we shoot in a camera is real anyway. That vision, and the willingness to push the envelope, is definitely refreshing.

It seems to me that you are privileging artistry that comes out of a camera over the creativity that
...Show more

I completely agree



Jun 27, 2009 at 10:08 AM
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