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Darnay Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #1 · Copyright help needed I have been offered a payment for the copyright for one of my images of a group of people, that the buyer would like to use in an advertising campaign. The offer includes the statement "any fee paid to you would be on an all rights cleared basis". Can anyone help me understand what this means? Any help appreciated. John Jun 16, 2009 at 06:55 PM

prof_fate Offline Dedicated FM Account Locked p.1 #2 · Copyright help needed Do you have model releases from the people in the photo so that you can use their likeness for commercial (advertising) purposes? All rights means he can use the photo for whatever purpose he wants, for as long as he wants. Could be a local ad or a national one, a shampoo bottle label, tshirts - anything, even selling it as a stock photos. Jun 16, 2009 at 10:09 PM

RDKirk Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #3 · Copyright help needed I have been offered a payment for the copyright for one of my images of a group of people, that the buyer would like to use in an advertising campaign. The offer includes the statement "any fee paid to you would be on an all rights cleared basis". Can anyone help me understand what this means? Any help appreciated. They probably think they would be purchasing the copyright, but that's not necessarily the case even with that line in the contract. However, you would do better to give them a contract that licenses them for the specific uses they need, specifying that you still retain copyright. However, as mentioned, there needs to be a model release of everyone in the photograph before it can be used for commercial purposes. That's primarily the problem of the company, but you would have to advise them that you have no model release (if that's the case). Jun 17, 2009 at 02:22 AM

Carson Wilcox Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #4 · Copyright help needed It would be nice if that were a problem for only the company but that isn't always the case. I've know a couple of photographers who wound up with problems, not with model releases but with photographs of products that the manufacturer hadn't given releases on which is basically the same idea I would think. Jun 17, 2009 at 02:54 PM

mdude85 Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #5 · Copyright help needed I'm not even going to touch the "payment for copyright" issue (it is flawed on so many levels that no amount of forum advice will solve your problem fully) BUT to answer your question, "all rights cleared" is a term used by distributors to indicate that all rights have been cleared for the distributor to maximize profits by selecting different types of licenses for different territories (e.g. countries) or usage types (educational, commercial, etc). It usually implies dotting your i's and crossing your t's so that the agency does not run into any hang-ups when distributing your photo to different markets. I don't know what is meant by "paid on an all-rights cleared basis" (just as I don't know what is meant when a buyer asks "send me a 300 DPI file" ) but perhaps what he means is you will receive payment according to how the agency licenses the photo assuming all rights have been cleared. Best plan is just to ask the agency what that term usage means. You risk sounding ignorant, but who really cares? I'd rather appear ignorant at first and have full knowledge of how my photo is being licensed rather than avoid appearing ignorant and never know. Jun 17, 2009 at 03:44 PM

Micky Bill Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #6 · Copyright help needed mdude85 wrote: Best plan is just to ask the agency what that term usage means. You risk sounding ignorant, but who really cares? I'd rather appear ignorant at first and have full knowledge of how my photo is being licensed rather than avoid appearing ignorant and never know. How is asking a question sounding ignorant? I deal with many different ad agencies in LA, Detroit, once in a while Europe and they all have different internal languages and say the same thing many different ways. I learned that there is nothing wrong with asking for clarification. A simple term like exclusive can be interpreted many ways. Regarding unreleased (model or property) images I have had the agency indemnify me against any claims. I make them very aware they are not released and it's up them deal with it. I write it on the PO, the invoice, imbed it in the file and also have an art buyer sign off on it. Most agencies have people who clear trademarks, etc. with the other companies or products involved. Not knowing what the image in question is I'd be careful 'selling copyright' with a bunch of recognizable unreleased people in it. Jun 17, 2009 at 05:26 PM

mdude85 Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #7 · Copyright help needed Micky Bill wrote: I learned that there is nothing wrong with asking for clarification. A simple term like exclusive can be interpreted many ways. I agree completely, which is why I suggested it.... except 'all rights cleared' is not really internal language, it is quite commonplace, but I think usually it refers to film (movies) and music, not so much photography. I've actually never seen it in reference to photography, I am just extrapolating its meaning in this scenario based on other places where I have seen it used. So I could be wrong in its usage in this case. Best just to ask the agency. Jun 17, 2009 at 06:54 PM

RDKirk Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #8 · Copyright help needed Best just to ask the agency. Best to tell the agency what you're offering for sale. Jun 17, 2009 at 07:09 PM

mdude85 Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #9 · Copyright help needed RDKirk wrote: Best just to ask the agency. Best to tell the agency what you're offering for sale. You open yourself up to a lot of problems if you tell the agency you are providing a product which is all-rights cleared when it really isn't. If you don't provide all-rights cleared product, the agency may not sign your contract, regardless of what you tell them you are offering for sale. Jun 17, 2009 at 07:14 PM

RDKirk Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #10 · Copyright help needed mdude85 wrote: RDKirk wrote: Best just to ask the agency. Best to tell the agency what you're offering for sale. You open yourself up to a lot of problems if you tell the agency you are providing a product which is all-rights cleared when it really isn't. If you don't provide all-rights cleared product, the agency may not sign your contract, regardless of what you tell them you are offering for sale. Why would you offer something that you didn't understand? Clearly, if you're making the offer, you're offering what you know you want. Jun 17, 2009 at 08:14 PM

mdude85 Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #11 · Copyright help needed RDKirk wrote: mdude85 wrote: RDKirk wrote: Best just to ask the agency. Best to tell the agency what you're offering for sale. You open yourself up to a lot of problems if you tell the agency you are providing a product which is all-rights cleared when it really isn't. If you don't provide all-rights cleared product, the agency may not sign your contract, regardless of what you tell them you are offering for sale. Why would you offer something that you didn't understand? Clearly, if you're making the offer, you're offering what you know you want. RDKirk wrote: Why would you offer something that you didn't understand? Clearly, if you're making the offer, you're offering what you know you want. In this instance, it's not about offering what you know you want, it's about receiving an offer stipulating a term you don't understand. That is why the OP should ask what is meant by "all rights cleared", so that he can offer exactly what he wants to offer and not something he doesn't. Also, if you browse the first few pages of this forum, you'll see several instances of people asking questions about business practices and contractural terms they offer where they 1) do not understand the rationale for offering them and/or 2) do not understand terms in their own contractural agreements. Like you, I do not know why people do this. Jun 17, 2009 at 08:27 PM

Micky Bill Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #12 · Copyright help needed Is this an ad agency or a stock photo agency or did the OP disappear? Jun 18, 2009 at 01:00 AM

Darnay Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #13 · Copyright help needed Thank you for your replies, some knowledgable people here. I did as suggested and asked the ad agency for clarification, this is the answer "We would pay you as copyright owner on an all cleared basis. You would warrant all rights are cleared therefore It would be up to you to pay any relevant fees to the girls from the monies we pay you". Jun 18, 2009 at 10:17 PM

mdude85 Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #14 · Copyright help needed If you are willing to adhere to those terms, then go for it. Good luck ... Jun 22, 2009 at 02:35 PM

RDKirk Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #15 · Copyright help needed "We would pay you as copyright owner on an all cleared basis. You would warrant all rights are cleared therefore It would be up to you to pay any relevant fees to the girls from the monies we pay you". If you don't have model releases, you can't make that sale. Jun 23, 2009 at 12:28 AM

nathanlake Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: On p.1 #16 · Copyright help needed RDKirk wrote: "We would pay you as copyright owner on an all cleared basis. You would warrant all rights are cleared therefore It would be up to you to pay any relevant fees to the girls from the monies we pay you". If you don't have model releases, you can't make that sale. Sure you can. You can sell that picture a thousand times. It just can't be legally used. Jun 23, 2009 at 03:50 AM

RDKirk Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #17 · Copyright help needed Sure you can. You can sell that picture a thousand times. It just can't be legally used. The document they want him to sign would (they think at least) indemnify them against any legal liability. So, no, he does not want to make that sale if he doesn't have releases. Jun 23, 2009 at 11:28 AM

mdude85 Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #18 · Copyright help needed nathanlake wrote: RDKirk wrote: "We would pay you as copyright owner on an all cleared basis. You would warrant all rights are cleared therefore It would be up to you to pay any relevant fees to the girls from the monies we pay you". If you don't have model releases, you can't make that sale. Sure you can. You can sell that picture a thousand times. It just can't be legally used. He would be breaching the contract. Jun 23, 2009 at 05:07 PM

Matt Cope Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #19 · Copyright help needed Guys, let's not forget that the law in the UK is different to the US. Use of model releases is less universal in the UK. John, they just want to be sure that no-one will come out of the woodwork and complain if they see themselves on the side of a bus advertising incontinence pants. Whether they have any grounds to complain depend on what circumstances you originally took the photo. If they were modeling for you and had reason to believe the shots would be used commercially, then as long as the usage doesn't amount to defamation, you should be alright. In truth people are usually pleased to see themselves in print, so you could just take the risk. That depends on whether you want to put your professional reputation at risk if it backfires. That said, if you know the models, far safer to get them to sign a simple model release in exchange for a box of chocolates each Jun 26, 2009 at 07:36 PM

Darnay Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #20 · Copyright help needed Matt, the circumstances of the shot were at a Summer Ball where I was the official photographer. The ladies bought copies on the night at the Ball then somehow an agent sees the shot and makes me an offer for the copyright. The really anoying part is that he also told the ladies what he had offered me and they want 50% to sign model releases. I might be wrong but I feel I am being duped here somewhere, At least one of the ladies in the shot must know the agent well enough to have shown him the shot in the first place. I am tempted to say the shots not for sale, but would that be like shooting myself in the foot. Jun 30, 2009 at 10:32 PM

surfing girl Offline Upload & Sell: On p.1 #21 · Copyright help needed Darnay wrote: Matt, the circumstances of the shot were at a Summer Ball where I was the official photographer. The ladies bought copies on the night at the Ball then somehow an agent sees the shot and makes me an offer for the copyright. The really anoying part is that he also told the ladies what he had offered me and they want 50% to sign model releases. I might be wrong but I feel I am being duped here somewhere, At least one of the ladies in the shot must know the agent well enough to have shown him the shot in the first place. I am tempted to say the shots not for sale, but would that be like shooting myself in the foot. Wow, large, potential conflict of interest here if one of the women does know the agent, agent advised woman of the fee they are willing to pay you, and then the women want 50% of your fee. My advice, walk away from this deal. You are being held up for the model releases. Consider this an object lesson on business, and from now on, get model releases at time of taking the image. There are lots of sample releases out there for you to use/customize for your needs. Good luck to you! Jul 03, 2009 at 03:26 AM

joezasada Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #22 · Copyright help needed offer to shoot a similar photo with model releases and offer them unrestricted usage rights. That will be a lot less headache... Jul 03, 2009 at 04:40 PM

Craig Gillette Online Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #23 · Copyright help needed The photographer, I believe, doesn't need a release for use in the UK - it's definitely different from the US in that regard. However, "all" is a nasty dangerous term in a contract setting, particularly if there is a possibility it might be used somewhere other than the UK. If getting releases seems to be difficult or the pricing tainted, then perhaps you should offer the image with no rights clearances and suggest that you can attempt put them in contact with the models to negotiate their own releases. Jul 04, 2009 at 09:05 PM

jjlphoto Offline Dedicated FM Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #24 · Copyright help needed Your best bet would be to contact an attorney who has experience in this. You need a contract that does three things: #1) Spells out in usual and customary legal language exactly what is to be delivered to who from whom, and for how much. #2) Insures you get paid. #3) Limits your ability to be sued. (Those things should be in your contract anyway.) Also contact a UK stock house or Getty, and see what the going rate is on what their intended use is. Jul 06, 2009 at 05:47 PM

flash Offline Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #25 · Copyright help needed So, you have an image that had already generated income. You expected that it had done its job. Now you have the chance for a bonus and you're worried about that? What income can this image generate for you if you don't sell it? Looks like the "models" are OK for some extra pay, and unless you have a better way to make money from this image I would probably join them. I would, however, ensure that you retain the right to use the image and any variations of it they use for your own self promotion. my 0.02 Gordon Jul 07, 2009 at 07:50 AM

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