Open letter to Epson

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papageno
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p.1 #1 · Open letter to Epson

Dear Epson,

Today I once again went through a persistent problems with my Epson R1800. My next printer will not be an Epson, no matter how well it prints when it's "on".

Yesterday I made two 13x19 prints that look fine.

Today I have wasted five sheets of 11x17 lustre and about two hours of my time, as well as the ink used in four cleaning cycles. I've gone from half full cartridges to one flashing and the others much lower--with no useful prints. This performance is increasingly typical for this product. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!

I should also note that when I change cartridges I need to wait a day before using the printer or I will get streaking that no amount of cleaning cycles can cure. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!

I suspect that my printer would profit from a tune-up, yet can find no one in the Chicago area that can provide such a service reasonably and quickly. Surely the pad under the heads can be replaced and the spillover tank be replaced (and the unit cleaned) for less than half the cost of a new unit--and without needing to ship the unit to you. I find it hard to believe that parts are readily (and reasonably) available because I think someone would pickup the slack and offer such a service.THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

I am sure you have heard about the cost of ink and the size of the cartridges. I don't feel I can support you there, either.

The ability to make lovely prints from nozzles spraying ink boggles the mind--but I'm over that. I need a printer that works when I want it to, not when it feels good. Kodak, a company not noted for competitive pricing, offers ink at far lower prices. We have supported you through a development curve. Where is our payback?

My family has roots in New England, where a common theme is "Waste not, want not." Your corporate philosophy makes me wasteful, so out you go.

Jun 09, 2009 at 06:54 PM

weezintrumpete
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p.1 #2 · Open letter to Epson

I had problems with a friends R1800 also, so I bought a Canon pro9000. Ink is still expensive, but I don't have any problems! Well, aside from the defective one I got first

Jun 09, 2009 at 07:14 PM

sivrajbm
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p.1 #3 · Open letter to Epson

Man my R800 & 1800 works flawlessly. I love the big beast, and little monster...

Jun 11, 2009 at 05:33 AM

Peter Figen
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p.1 #4 · Open letter to Epson

Geno,

Have you called Epson and spoken to their tech support? Is you printer still under warranty? If your printer is out of warranty, did it behave this way while in warranty, and if so, did you contact Epson regarding this?

What you are reporting is not normal and Epson is really quite good at servicing their products and really do want you to be a happy customer.

Jun 11, 2009 at 05:50 AM

gheller
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p.1 #5 · Open letter to Epson

Is it just me or is anyone else baffled at home printing

I can get prints at my local Costco for $3 for a 12x18.

I (and my clients) are always blown away at the quality.

I sell them for $33.90

Please enlighten me...I cannot imagine that it is *that* much better quality and *that* much cheaper, but (based on threads like this) it does seem *that* much more of a P.I.T.A.

greg

Jun 11, 2009 at 09:20 AM

coopah
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p.1 #6 · Open letter to Epson

gheller wrote:
Is it just me or is anyone else baffled at home printing

I can get prints at my local Costco for $3 for a 12x18.

I (and my clients) are always blown away at the quality.

I
greg
Nice if you have a Costco nearby. My local lab charges $18 for a 12x18

Jun 11, 2009 at 03:03 PM

Peter Figen
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p.1 #7 · Open letter to Epson

"Is it just me or is anyone else baffled at home printing. I can get prints at my local Costco for $3 for a 12x18."

Yes, you can get a limited gamut glossy or luster surface print for a very reasonable price. You also have to either go there in person to submit your order, come back and pick it up or submit online and go there to get it. How much is your time worth? If you're picking up a hundred prints you spread that time out, but if you're only having a couple of prints, you have to figure that hour's worth of time (or whatever it actually is) into your equation. Not such a great deal anymore.

A 12 x 18 on an Epson runs between one and two dollars depending on the paper used. Roll paper is incredibly cheap for the inkjets, especially papers like Premium Luster.

About the only time when chemical prints look better is if you absolutely need a high gloss finish, but even then, you have to live with the extremely compressed gamut of RA-4 papers.

Jun 11, 2009 at 03:40 PM

Bernie
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p.1 #8 · Open letter to Epson

I have tried over a half dozen different labs and have discovered that only I can produce prints the way I like them. These are generally short runs and not hundreds at a time -- prints that sell for hundreds each....

Too many labs are also putting the customer's images through their software often increasing contrast and saturation to "improve" it, making yellows turn green and other horrible things. I fired my last lab because of things like this.

Jun 11, 2009 at 04:26 PM

gheller
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p.1 #9 · Open letter to Epson

thanks for the replies so far.

I guess I am *really* fortunate.

My Costco is 4 minutes from my home and never turns yellows into greens

I always request matte finish and the output always looks exactly like it does on my AL iMac.

greg

Jun 11, 2009 at 04:37 PM

tomm101
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p.1 #10 · Open letter to Epson

Epson will just tell you to buy a 1900, it is true that the latest Epson printers are much better than even the last generation. Also what is the humidity in the room with the printer, should be around 50%.
You can go the Costco route, it is an 80 mile drive for me. Pro labs are better because they don't have amateurs running their printers, and charge more because of this. On a good running inkjet a 12x18 should cost around $4-5.
I have thrown out 4 C series Epsons because of clogs, not fun. Currently running a Canon iPF5000 and I'm very happy with it.

Tom

Jun 11, 2009 at 05:47 PM

gheller
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p.1 #11 · Open letter to Epson

tomm101 wrote:
On a good running inkjet a 12x18 should cost around $4-5.
I have thrown out 4 C series Epsons because of clogs, not fun.

Tom

wow, then your cost per print is much more that $ if you are buying new printers so often.

my Costco photo manager is VERY good (again, guess I am just fortunate)

greg

Jun 11, 2009 at 06:23 PM

papageno
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p.1 #12 · Open letter to Epson

Have you called Epson and spoken to their tech support? Is you printer still under warranty? If your printer is out of warranty, did it behave this way while in warranty, and if so, did you contact Epson regarding this?

The printer is out of warranty. I called them some time ago and essentially got blown off with what appeared to be a standard, non listening response that they had never heard of such a problem in the entire recorded history of Epson,,,,,

It's maddening, because when it's on it's a fine printer. The maintenance is overpowering.

Some asked about humidity: the room is humidified with a furnace humidifier in the winter; air conditioned in summer (if that ever arrives). Nothing too odd there; seems like it ought to function well in such circumstances.

My guess--and it's very much a guess-- is that the pad that sits under the heads (when sitting) isn't functioning properly. No one seems able to service these in this area; they want to ship the thing to California. Add that to a guesswork minimum price of (about) $200 if nothing is seriously wrong and it gets silly quickly.

Jun 11, 2009 at 11:23 PM

Peter Le
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p.1 #13 · Open letter to Epson

People that feel Costco can produce a better print then an Epson.....well they should just stick with Costco. Their idea of a good print isn`t even close to what a Epson printer is capable. With high quality paper even your Epson will make the Costco print look laughable. Clogging unfortunately was a problem with the older Epsons....but their are still many running fine. I would recommend a 3800 or higher....although the 2880 is a fine printer without clogging problems.
If Costco quality is all you demand......then that is fine.....stick with Costco ...you will be better off. But if you want to spend a little time learning almost any of the Epsons can produce a print that is just stunning.

Jun 12, 2009 at 02:24 AM

Ryan McGehee
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p.1 #14 · Open letter to Epson

I agree papageno, I loved, I mean loved my Epson prints when it worked properly. I have since thrown up my hands in despair also on my epson r1800. In trying to do my own (what should be simple) maintenance on it I believe it is ruined now. I am seriously considering going to another brand I just don't know who to switch too.

Jun 12, 2009 at 03:25 AM

gheller
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p.1 #15 · Open letter to Epson

Peter Le wrote:
People that feel Costco can produce a better print then an Epson.....well they should just stick with Costco. Their idea of a good print isn`t even close to what a Epson printer is capable. With high quality paper even your Epson will make the Costco print look laughable. Clogging unfortunately was a problem with the older Epsons....but their are still many running fine. I would recommend a 3800 or higher....although the 2880 is a fine printer without clogging problems.
If Costco quality is all you demand......then that is fine.....stick with Costco ...you will be better off. But if you want to spend a little time learning almost any of the Epsons can produce a print that is just stunning.

This sounds like someone who is bitter...

I have seen prints from very high-end labs, Epson printers, and Costco.

I will agree that Costco is not the best money can buy, but the difference is not worth the headaches reported in this thread...

greg

Jun 12, 2009 at 06:16 AM

mikekel
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p.1 #16 · Open letter to Epson

What kind of paper are you using? That can make a huge difference, particularly with streaking etc. I upgraded to an Epson 3800, amazing prints, incredibly fast and great quality. I don't burn thru drafts like I used to on the smaller Epsons. I had a 2200, hated it.

Jun 12, 2009 at 08:30 AM

papageno
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p.1 #17 · Open letter to Epson

What kind of paper are you using? That can make a huge difference, particularly with streaking etc.

Usually Epson Lustre; Galerie soft gloss for glossy. A little Epson matte.....

I can't imagine that changing paper would impact the pinstriping I get regularly. Going to rpm sometimes helps, but of course slows everything down....

The 3800 may be wonderful, but is pricey for the amount of printing I do. I should perhaps point out that as a retiree impacted by the economy, the budget isn't there for a 3800......

Jun 12, 2009 at 08:11 PM

Peter Le
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p.1 #18 · Open letter to Epson

gheller wrote:
Peter Le wrote:
People that feel Costco can produce a better print then an Epson.....well they should just stick with Costco. Their idea of a good print isn`t even close to what a Epson printer is capable. With high quality paper even your Epson will make the Costco print look laughable. Clogging unfortunately was a problem with the older Epsons....but their are still many running fine. I would recommend a 3800 or higher....although the 2880 is a fine printer without clogging problems.
If Costco quality is all you demand......then that is fine.....stick with Costco ...you will be better off. But if you want to spend a little time learning almost any of the Epsons can produce a print that is just stunning.

This sounds like someone who is bitter...

I have seen prints from very high-end labs, Epson printers, and Costco.

I will agree that Costco is not the best money can buy, but the difference is not worth the headaches reported in this thread...

greg

Bitter .......not at all really. Just a little tired of these threads that blame Epson, Canon or who ever for their out dated little used printer problems. I have used Epson printers for years now and have had above excellent results. Some of the older ones were lacking a bit.....but it isn`t that long ago inkjets were a joke and would fade in a month. They have come a long long way. I have had a few problems along the way and have been very pleased with Epsons tech support. The newer Epsons are much better at not clogging....but to expect your old printer to preform like the new ones is a little like being mad that your 10D doesn`t preform as well as your new 5D mark II. It is a little hard on your pocket in a market advancing as fast as digital photography. But it is to all our advantage in the long run.
So to the OP....I`m sorry you are on a fixed income in a bad economy....but I ate canned tuna for weeks to be able to get my 3800. If you don`t print much you will probably never really learn how to tweek things to get a excellent print from your printer anyway. There is as much of an art to making a good print as there is at taking a good picture . There are many good labs out there that make much better prints then Costco on any paper you choose. Do a search here you will probably find a bunch. If you don`t print much you are much better off with one of them. But this still isn`t Epsons problem.......it is yours.
Good luck......Peter

Jun 12, 2009 at 10:05 PM

papageno
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p.1 #19 · Open letter to Epson

If you don`t print much you will probably never really learn how to tweek things to get a excellent print from your printer anyway. There is as much of an art to making a good print as there is at taking a good picture .

Thank you so much for those encouraging, helpful thoughts. I take it I should hop on the nearest ice berg and push off.

to expect your old printer to preform like the new ones is a little like being mad that your 10D doesn`t preform as well as your new 5D mark II

Apparently you consumed a little too much canned tuna. I don't expect my printer to be identical to a newer model. What I do expect is that it perform consistently near the level it performed at when newer. Granted that a car with 40,000 miles on it may be a step slower--but it should still get you to the store reliably. Unlike an ailing car or dog, this printer is not readily serviceable to bring it back up to snuff.

But this still isn`t Epsons problem.......it is yours.

The point to my post is that Epson makes this my problem, and that I do not like being treated this way.

Jun 13, 2009 at 12:12 AM

gheller
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p.1 #20 · Open letter to Epson

Don't forget that you have to factor in to your cost test prints, replacing printers as they get old / obsolete ,etc.

If I don't like the print from Costco, bring it back, money back...try that with a home printer.

Said TIC, of course, but the home printers have no idea how good *my* Costco is.

Perhaps a bit sorry or jealous, or whatever.

greg

Jun 13, 2009 at 01:34 AM

Peter Le
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p.1 #21 · Open letter to Epson

gheller wrote:
Don't forget that you have to factor in to your cost test prints, replacing printers as they get old / obsolete ,etc.

If I don't like the print from Costco, bring it back, money back...try that with a home printer.

Said TIC, of course, but the home printers have no idea how good *my* Costco is.

Perhaps a bit sorry or jealous, or whatever.

greg

How did you guess........all along I have been jealous of Costco.......

Jun 13, 2009 at 01:44 AM

Peter Le
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p.1 #22 · Open letter to Epson

papageno wrote:
If you don`t print much you will probably never really learn how to tweek things to get a excellent print from your printer anyway. There is as much of an art to making a good print as there is at taking a good picture .

Thank you so much for those encouraging, helpful thoughts. I take it I should hop on the nearest ice berg and push off.

No......I`m just saying that if you don`t want to print a lot and deal with these printers idiocies. Learn the art of print making.....be amazed at what these home printers can do. Do you realize that just 15 years ago a 100,000 + dollar printer could not match the quality of a 1,000 dollar Epson 3800 ? Your 400 dollar printer was capable of prints that are almost as good as that 100,000 dollar printer. And yes your printer was known to have clogging problems.........time to move up to a newer print . But this is why I said....look for a good print house.....there are many. It`s OK if you don`t want to mess with printing.......a few years ago some of us worked in dark rooms.....some sent their stuff out to be processed. It`s all OK.....but you can`t really blame the printer companies. Inkjet printing is still fairly new and evolving at light speed.....this does create the problem of the older printers having problems and newer printers being much better....but not perfect. This is just how evloving technology works.....you came play the game and get amazing results.....or you can go another way. If Epson was not producing better and better printers I would go along with you ......but they are. Every new printer of any of the big 3 I use I am amazed.....this has brought so much power to Photographer print maker............something you could never do before so easily at any price............Peter

Jun 13, 2009 at 02:15 AM

gheller
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p.1 #23 · Open letter to Epson

How did you guess........all along I have been jealous of Costco.......

I guess that makes me jealous of marginally better prints for 8x the cost

Admission is the first step to recovery, so good on ya (if you agree, do a "thumbs up" below)

Edited on Jun 13, 2009 at 02:26 AM · View previous versions

Jun 13, 2009 at 02:19 AM

Peter Le
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p.1 #24 · Open letter to Epson

Jun 13, 2009 at 02:25 AM

pcimaging
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p.1 #25 · Open letter to Epson

I agree that this is Epsons fault. That is right up until they make it clear they are not going to do one iota of anything to help with the problem anyhow. At that point it is up to the person with the problem printer to decide what if anything he can do about it. If Costco is not an option, that is real simple. Do not use them. If it were me and I am also on a limited budget, I would make my best attempt to either fix the problem myself or if I could not, then look for someone in the area that would give an estimated cost. I just bought a slightly used Epson 2000 P at a church bazaar sale today and when I got it home I discovered that the black appeared to be dried up. The colored cartridge seemed to be out of a color or two. Then I did a nozzle check and head cleaning once. After that I made my first real print and it looks really nice. I paid $5 for the printer. I see where back in 2000 it retailed at $899 . Heck , if I get 5 or 10 13 by 19's out of it after I get some paper, I will have proven there is hope for all of us on a budget. I wish you the best on that printer issue. I wish me the best also.

Jun 13, 2009 at 05:59 AM


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