Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

Visit the FM Store · Image Upload · Buy & Sell
FM Forum Rules

FM Forums | Lighting and Studio techniques | Join Image Upload
1 2 3 … 9

11 end

Daan B
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.10 #1 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

el_hoppy wrote:
One thing I tried and quite liked was that I managed to fit the Quadra pack, 2 heads, cables, 1Dmk3, 24-70L & 70-200 f2.8L in my Peli 1510 case.

Beach, bikini and sunshine is perhaps not the best environment for the Quadra, but if you are shooting in an abandoned building or around the city at night etc.., then the Quadra has more than enough power and is more portable than the Ranger and has a modelling light for focusing which spped lights lack.

Agreed, under those conditions the Quadra would work very well

But then again... if I am shooting in those circumstances, I will drive up there. So weight and size aren't much of a concern. Furthermore, it has to be really dark to make a continuous LED modelling light necessary. Usually when I do inside location work there is AC available. So I'd rather use my RX's instead.

Don't get me wrong here... I am not saying the Quadra is completely worthless... It is just that I fail to see how it could benefit me next to my Ranger RX, RX's and Speedlights... in such a way that it is worth investing in one. It seems too much like a niche product to me. YMMV

Jun 30, 2009 at 09:55 AM

Daan B
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.10 #2 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

evertdoorn wrote:
Daan, isn't it so that if you combine an A- and S-head on a symmetrical rx speed unit like the one you have, you get an assymetrical division anyway?

Evert, I have the Ranger Speed AS version (asymmetrical)

Don't know what happens when I combine an A and S head on that. I will have to look into that...

Jun 30, 2009 at 10:01 AM

rudiphoto
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.10 #3 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

evertdoorn wrote:
Daan, isn't it so that if you combine an A- and S-head on a symmetrical rx speed unit like the one you have, you get an assymetrical division anyway?

Nope. Not gonna happen.

Jun 30, 2009 at 11:00 AM

Carmen Miranda
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.10 #4 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

evertdoorn wrote:
Daan, isn't it so that if you combine an A- and S-head on a symmetrical rx speed unit like the one you have, you get an assymetrical division anyway?

I tested the two heads on the Ranger and posted the results somewhere in the bowels of this forum.

I was surprised to find there was virtually NO difference (as in tenths) between the A and S Freelite head in terms of output.
I don't know if that will be the same with the Quadra heads, but I suspect they will be close as well.

Good luck.

Jun 30, 2009 at 02:27 PM

Daan B
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.10 #5 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

Carmen Miranda wrote:
evertdoorn wrote:
Daan, isn't it so that if you combine an A- and S-head on a symmetrical rx speed unit like the one you have, you get an assymetrical division anyway?

I tested the two heads on the Ranger and posted the results somewhere in the bowels of this forum.

I was surprised to find there was virtually NO difference (as in tenths) between the A and S Freelite head in terms of output.
I don't know if that will be the same with the Quadra heads, but I suspect they will be close as well.

Good luck.

Carmen, how about using a combination of A and S heads on the Ranger RX Speed AS? Can you make the output 1:1 that way?

Jun 30, 2009 at 02:29 PM

bacilonur
Online
Buy and Sell: On

p.10 #6 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

That's exactly what she's talking about. I talked to one of the Bogen techs and he said the same, that they only work like that on the symmetrical packs, but that the power distribution on the AS negated the effect, so you can't make your AS pack symmetrical.

Jun 30, 2009 at 02:57 PM

Daan B
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.10 #7 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

Jun 30, 2009 at 03:01 PM

Carmen Miranda
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.10 #8 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

Jun 30, 2009 at 03:06 PM

el_hoppy
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.10 #9 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

Daan B wrote:
Carmen Miranda wrote:
evertdoorn wrote:
Daan, isn't it so that if you combine an A- and S-head on a symmetrical rx speed unit like the one you have, you get an assymetrical division anyway?

I tested the two heads on the Ranger and posted the results somewhere in the bowels of this forum.

I was surprised to find there was virtually NO difference (as in tenths) between the A and S Freelite head in terms of output.
I don't know if that will be the same with the Quadra heads, but I suspect they will be close as well.

Good luck.

Carmen, how about using a combination of A and S heads on the Ranger RX Speed AS? Can you make the output 1:1 that way?

I recall that thread.... I'm pretty sure that the "no difference" was related to the output when using the same output not a symmetrical output from an A & S combo on the one pack... But I drink sometimes and my memory can be wrong

Jun 30, 2009 at 03:07 PM

rudiphoto
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.10 #10 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

bacilonur wrote:
That's exactly what she's talking about. I talked to one of the Bogen techs and he said the same, that they only work like that on the symmetrical packs, but that the power distribution on the AS negated the effect, so you can't make your AS pack symmetrical.

I've never seen any Elinchrom documentation stating that fact, and in fact Elinchrom state that the A and S heads are identical, the only exception being the flash duration. So I doubt that they would behave any differently on a symmetrical pack, since I don't believe there is any way for the heads or packs to know the difference (as in, tell which head is plugged into which port - I don't think the head can tell whether it's plugged into an asymmetrical pack, and the pack wouldn't know which head is plugged into it - they are not that intelligent, AFAIK).

Jun 30, 2009 at 03:09 PM

el_hoppy
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.10 #11 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

From http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/709086

Carmen Miranda wrote:
Daan,

On the AS unit, the B channel can only deliver 33% of the available power, with or without additional head. The A channel can deliver 100% of the power available, except if there is another head connected to the B channel. In which case, the A channel can only deliver 66%.
Percentages will remain constant as variator is changed up or down the power scale.

One head only:
A Channel = 100% (17-1100) ws
B Channel = 33% (5.7-366) ws

Two heads (A & B)
A Channel = 66% (11.4-733) ws
B Channel = 33% (5.7-366) ws

Couple of other points to add :

1. A (Action) head has half the flash duration as the S (Standard) head.
2. Either head in the B channel will produce half the flash duration as they would in the A channel.
3. If a A (Action) head is used on the A channel and the S (Standard) head on the B channel the flash duration from either head will be basically the same.
4. My unofficial testing (posted in a previous thread) has shown that A (Action) head produces basically the same output as the S (Standard) head at the same power level. Within tenths as I recall. This amounts to virtually no difference in the light ratios produced if the A (Action) and S (Standard) heads are used in combination with each other on either A or B channels.

Good luck.

Looks like Daan you have already had this answer direct towards you

Jun 30, 2009 at 03:12 PM

bacilonur
Online
Buy and Sell: On

p.10 #12 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

Rudi, I got that answer from two different Bogen reps who also offered to get me in contact with the pack designer for more detailed answers. In their explanation, it wasn't that the pack knew the difference between which head you plugged in, it was that the internal efficiency differences that separate the A head from the S head make them consume power differently when plugged into a Ranger RX which, by design, shares its power between the two heads equally.

Jun 30, 2009 at 03:30 PM

Daan B
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.10 #13 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

el_hoppy wrote:
From http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/709086

Carmen Miranda wrote:
Daan,

On the AS unit, the B channel can only deliver 33% of the available power, with or without additional head. The A channel can deliver 100% of the power available, except if there is another head connected to the B channel. In which case, the A channel can only deliver 66%.
Percentages will remain constant as variator is changed up or down the power scale.

One head only:
A Channel = 100% (17-1100) ws
B Channel = 33% (5.7-366) ws

Two heads (A & B)
A Channel = 66% (11.4-733) ws
B Channel = 33% (5.7-366) ws

Couple of other points to add :

1. A (Action) head has half the flash duration as the S (Standard) head.
2. Either head in the B channel will produce half the flash duration as they would in the A channel.
3. If a A (Action) head is used on the A channel and the S (Standard) head on the B channel the flash duration from either head will be basically the same.
4. My unofficial testing (posted in a previous thread) has shown that A (Action) head produces basically the same output as the S (Standard) head at the same power level. Within tenths as I recall. This amounts to virtually no difference in the light ratios produced if the A (Action) and S (Standard) heads are used in combination with each other on either A or B channels.

Good luck.

Looks like Daan you have already had this answer direct towards you

Ah, there you go...

Thanks for digging that up hoppy

Jun 30, 2009 at 03:30 PM

el_hoppy
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.10 #14 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

Daan B wrote:
Ah, there you go...

Thanks for digging that up hoppy

My pleasure

Jun 30, 2009 at 03:39 PM

roppda
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.10 #15 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

bacilonur wrote:
Rudi, I got that answer from two different Bogen reps who also offered to get me in contact with the pack designer for more detailed answers. In their explanation, it wasn't that the pack knew the difference between which head you plugged in, it was that the internal efficiency differences that separate the A head from the S head make them consume power differently when plugged into a Ranger RX which, by design, shares its power between the two heads equally.

Hi-

This is pulled from the B&H web site description of the Ranger A head (under features). This is the only place I have found this, but it mirrors the above:

Asymmetric Distribution

Even though the Ranger Power Supply has symmetrical distribution only, the photographer is able to achieve a 2:1 ratio between the "A" and "S" series of heads. This works because the "A" heads have a duration up to 1/3250 second while the "S" heads have a duraton up to 1/1600 second. The "A" head is twice as fast, and draws twice the energy of the "S" head creating a 2:1 ratio.

Jun 30, 2009 at 05:45 PM

rudiphoto
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.10 #16 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

I have seen the B&H explanation before, but I have also seen more errors in specs and description pages on B&H to take them with a grain of salt. And, drawing twice the energy should have no effect on power OUTPUT (of the head), it should have an effect on the RECYCLING TIME (if both heads set to the same power).

Not that I don't believe you guys. It just doesn't make sense, and I would be talking to Elinchrom directly if I was in the market for a Ranger RX symmetrical pack...

Jun 30, 2009 at 09:08 PM

Carmen Miranda
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.10 #17 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

roppda wrote:
Asymmetric Distribution

Even though the Ranger Power Supply has symmetrical distribution only, the photographer is able to achieve a 2:1 ratio between the "A" and "S" series of heads. This works because the "A" heads have a duration up to 1/3250 second while the "S" heads have a duraton up to 1/1600 second. The "A" head is twice as fast, and draws twice the energy of the "S" head creating a 2:1 ratio.

I'm not an EE, but this does not sound correct.

Where is Paul when you need him?

Jun 30, 2009 at 09:22 PM

bacilonur
Online
Buy and Sell: On

p.10 #18 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

rudiphoto wrote:
And, drawing twice the energy should have no effect on power OUTPUT (of the head), it should have an effect on the RECYCLING TIME (if both heads set to the same power).

I'd imagine it'd be the other way around.

Either way the Ranger has 1100WS of power to deliver. If the internal circuitry of one of the two heads has a lower electrical impedance rating (or some similar measure of electrical conductivity), it seems logical that a type of Bernoulli effect would take place and affect the power distribution. When you consider that the A heads must obviously have some internal differences that make the power pass through it onto the flash bulb faster than an S head to cut the flash duration in half, it makes sense that it could suck juice from the capacitors twice as fast as the S head.

Jun 30, 2009 at 09:34 PM

Carmen Miranda
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.10 #19 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

bacilonur wrote:When you consider that the A heads must obviously have some internal differences that make the power pass through it onto the flash bulb faster than an S head to cut the flash duration in half, it makes sense that it could suck juice from the capacitors twice as fast as the S head.

This still wouldn't explain why there would be a difference on a non-AS pack (if there is) and no difference on a AS (which I know there is not).

Jul 01, 2009 at 12:04 AM

bacilonur
Online
Buy and Sell: On

p.10 #20 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

Like you, I'm no EE, but my guess is that there are two capacitor banks with pre-determined amounts of power that get pushed out to the corresponding channels until there's no juice left, so the A head will still empty out its capacitor in half the time, but it won't go and start sucking from the S head.

Jul 01, 2009 at 01:17 AM

rudiphoto
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.10 #21 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

That theory sounds a little suspect to me - have the heads just draw what they want does not sound like a recipe for precise digital control in 1/10 of a stop! But I am no EE either...

Jul 01, 2009 at 06:43 AM

evertdoorn
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.10 #22 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

well, that B&H story (or should we call it BS from now on

) is kind of what the dealer told me...Anyway, apologies for raising it since we're totally off topic now

Jul 01, 2009 at 07:00 AM

clausjepsen
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.10 #23 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

My dealer told me, that the A-heads could deliver a bluish cast, so for wedding and portraits the standard head would be the right choise. Is that correct?

Jul 01, 2009 at 10:48 AM

Gregg Heckler
Online
Image Upload: On

p.10 #24 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

"My dealer told me, that the A-heads could deliver a bluish cast".

Must be a Profoto dealer.

Jul 01, 2009 at 03:12 PM

f1.2
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.10 #25 · Elinchrom Quadra - got it yet?

clausjepsen wrote:
My dealer told me, that the A-heads could deliver a bluish cast, so for wedding and portraits the standard head would be the right choise. Is that correct?

I have a Quadra with an A-head and I am very positive it does NOT have any color cast.

Jul 01, 2009 at 03:37 PM


FM Forums \| Lighting and Studio techniques \| Join Image Upload 1 2 3 … 9 10 11 end