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Archive 2009 · Focussing techniques on 5D II

  
 
zuikoo
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


Hi all,

I recently got an EeS focussing screen for my 5D II to aid manual focus. (I realise its not the right screen EgS and I'm not sure what I am about to describe is related to this).

What I have noticed is that when trying to focus by viewfinder with my 40mm f2 Zuiko - I consistently get front focus. This is most obvious at near distance focussing. And its not a small amount ~1cm is possible - but it's always front focus. Compensating for it is difficult.

When I photograph via liveview it is obviously always perfectly focussed.

When I fix the camera on a tripod and liveview focus and then look through the viewfinder the image is OK, but if I adjust for my best view I get the front focus again.

I have set the dioptric adjustment to get the best image once I have liveview focussed, so that is not an issue.

What I think is going on, is that the distance to the focussing screen is not quite the same as the distance to the sensor. The focussing screen may be thicker leading to a shorter distance to the screen. I'm not sure about this.

After some experimentation though I can get pretty good focus by starting on the infinity side and slowly bringing the subject into focus and stopping adjusting immediately when the image takes on some sharpness. This leads to a good focus result. If I try to focus the other way round - ie. by starting at the near focus and turning towards infinity I front focus.

Is my experience normal? Should I get the retailer to change the screen over to the EgS - and will that fix my problems?

I'm disappointed that I cannot get crisp focus via the viewfinder. I must say that it is alot better than the EgA screen which again had front focus issues for me but it is sometimes impossible to judge focus with that screen.

Ideas?



Apr 27, 2009 at 07:29 AM
ovredal73
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


I put my EE-s into the 5d2 in desperation waiting for my EG-S to arrive back in december, and it sucked. Why did you get a ee-s for the 5d2? Get the right one


Apr 27, 2009 at 07:46 AM
thrice
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


They are the same screen? I have spoken to Canon directly about this and there is no difference between an Ee-s and Eg-s technically speaking.

I would like to hear elaboration on the differences you perceive between an Ee-s and your Eg-s Andre.

zuikoo, plane of focus issues would pertain to shimming your focusing screen accurately to get it to match what is measured by your sensor. A thread is here.



Apr 27, 2009 at 07:51 AM
zuikoo
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


thrice wrote:
They are the same screen? I have spoken to Canon directly about this and there is no difference between an Ee-s and Eg-s technically speaking.

I would like to hear elaboration on the differences you perceive between an Ee-s and your Eg-s Andre.

zuikoo, plane of focus issues would pertain to shimming your focusing screen accurately to get it to match what is measured by your sensor. A thread is here.


Thanks for that thread.

So if I am focussing and the things in front of what I focussed on are sharp - is that "Backfocus"?

I have referred to that as front focus above.

I have tried setting the micro-adjustment on the 5DII and found +11 Backwards as being best with my Canon 50mm 1.4 EF.

Any ideas on what shim I need? I live very close to the local Canon service centre so I could take it in for a sensor clean, shimming etc. in the one hit.

Where are shims available from anyhow?

I live in Brisbane btw.



Apr 27, 2009 at 08:13 AM
ovredal73
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


thrice wrote:
They are the same screen? I have spoken to Canon directly about this and there is no difference between an Ee-s and Eg-s technically speaking.

I would like to hear elaboration on the differences you perceive between an Ee-s and your Eg-s Andre.

zuikoo, plane of focus issues would pertain to shimming your focusing screen accurately to get it to match what is measured by your sensor. A thread is here.


Really? I could not get the EE-s to even fit properly in the 5d2. And when I was able to close the lid, my MF-ing was way way off. However if you say it should be the same, Dan I believe you, so maybe it was my mistake somehow. But I tried several times during Christmas, and as soon as the eeg arrived no more problems... Weird... Maybe I was so convinced it would not work that I forced the problem into existence




Apr 27, 2009 at 09:49 AM
ulrikft
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


I just ordered a new focus screen from taiwan for my d700, will report in when i know more


Apr 27, 2009 at 09:50 AM
mikeengles
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


Hello

If you can, take the camera to Canon. My 5D2 is at Canon, because I have had problems, first with manual focus (the problem you describe with a 100-400 zoom) as well as an auto focus that is all over the place, depending on the subject distance. At the moment it has the standard screen, but I have just ordered a grid screen. The problem with manual focus has always been there ith SLR cameras. I had to have all my OM cameras checked because the focussing plane and the film plane were not accurately aligned. I used to do a lot of closeup photography, where one had very little depth of field and to have a problem like the one described was a real pain as well as an expensive one..

Mike Engles



Apr 27, 2009 at 01:17 PM
zuikoo
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


I sent it off to Canon service.

Made sure that the guy wrote down it needed washer/shim for manual focus and not just a backfocus with AF thing.

Hopefully they'll get it right.




Apr 27, 2009 at 11:21 PM
wolfloid
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


The problem with the S screens (I have an EG-S for my 40/2 CV lens) is that at anything other than f2 or f2.8 they are pretty dark.

Now, of course, I sometimes want to photograph with the 40/2 wide open, but it is nowhere near as often as I want to use it at f4 or f5.6 or smaller. Focusing at f2 and then stopping down is not so realistic when things are moving, so I simply don't use it much.

Accuracy with the normal screen at f4 seems to be pretty reliable, and I'm getting better, but not great at f2.8 and f2.

Neither screen is perfect - far from it. Has anyone found a better, more reliable solution?



Apr 28, 2009 at 11:25 AM
erichard
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


In my book, Bill Maxwell Hi-Lux brightening of the EeS or EgS is the Cadillac (or should I say Lexus) of focusing screens, as it is nearly as bright as the EgA while maintaining the contrast qualities of the EeS. He has, however, raised his prices through the years, and it is now fairly expensive to get done (like the price of a cheap Contax lens). I am expecting one any day now, as my EeS version got lost in a Canon Repair error.

What I'm not sure of is whether the microadjustment is recorded solely in the camera, or whether some info is transferred to the chip on the lens. And further, is it possible to microadjust the AF confirm light for the manual lenses, if they are not up to snuff? And is it necessary to have that Russian chip to do that, or is that Russian chip merely good for changing the Exif data on the lens, which, while handy, is not essential?

If you can't microadjust the AF confirm light calibration relative to each chipped alt lens/adapter combo, and if you are getting front or back focus with the AF confirm light, then shimming is necessary. If otherwise, shimming is not needed. Anyone know the answer to that, whether microadjust affects the AF confirm with chipped alt adapters?



Apr 28, 2009 at 12:04 PM
karlg
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


erichard wrote:
...
What I'm not sure of is whether the microadjustment is recorded solely in the camera, or whether some info is transferred to the chip on the lens. ...?


Chuck Westfall of Canon says:

"...any adjustments you make apply only to the specific camera body in question; lenses themselves are never modified by the camera's AF microadjustment settings."

here: http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0812/tech-tips.html



Apr 29, 2009 at 03:30 PM
Michael Gordon
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


Hmmm,
Rachel at Katzeye hs said that any treatment to increase bightness will at least slightly degrade the out-of-focus clues--even their well regarded Opti-bright. (They don't plan to offer FF size screens at this time as she doens't think it will offer much beyond what is available.) It is always a compromise--it is the "no free lunch" law of phyics. The compromise may be favorable however. I am very much wondering if a treated Eg-A is bright enough to leave in for the 24-105 walking around lens and the alternative lenses.



Apr 29, 2009 at 03:59 PM
ISO1600
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


wolfloid wrote:
The problem with the S screens (I have an EG-S for my 40/2 CV lens) is that at anything other than f2 or f2.8 they are pretty dark.

Neither screen is perfect - far from it. Has anyone found a better, more reliable solution?


Actually, Wolfloid, the S Screens are designed with lenses BRIGHTER than F2 in mind. In my experience (EES), once dipping below even F1.8, things got dismally dark (in comparison to standard screen), and it was just very frustrating. I had always wanted to try the Hi-Lux treatment, but never got around to it. This was one of my many frustrations w/ the 5D... lack of a good focusing solution.



Apr 29, 2009 at 05:23 PM
ulrikft
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


Got my focusingscreen today, shimmed it with one of the pads, now it works perfectly both with AF and MF.. good stuf!


May 05, 2009 at 09:47 AM
zuikoo
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


OK.

I got back my camera yesterday.

No work had been done as they believed it was working to spec.

The back-focus problem with manual lenses is still present.

So I wasted 3 weeks by sending it in to Canon Australia who are clueless it seems.

To add to the insult- my picture counter was on MG_3492

My last photo was MG_1301

They took 2100 shots - shutter actuations to determine this??

I'm thinking if they used another card with different numbering it may have caught that from there... but still... no solution.

So where does one get the washers/shims for self help then?

I'm located in Australia... and cost is of little concern if I can get this working as it should.




May 14, 2009 at 09:55 PM
thrice
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


I got my shims through Hartland Camera repair in Perth. I spoke to Nigel and he ordered every shim in for me, it took trial and error to find the combo that worked best.

I'd say any service centre can get the shims in for you, but if I were you I'd ask to see the technician who looked at your camera and ask him how he tested to find the manual focus accurate, then kindly show him on a laptop (for large magnification viewing) how to replicate your issue.



May 15, 2009 at 02:19 AM
ehor
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


Are these shims on the Canon spare parts list?
Anyone have a part#?



May 15, 2009 at 02:26 AM
zuikoo
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


thrice wrote:
I got my shims through Hartland Camera repair in Perth. I spoke to Nigel and he ordered every shim in for me, it took trial and error to find the combo that worked best.

I'd say any service centre can get the shims in for you, but if I were you I'd ask to see the technician who looked at your camera and ask him how he tested to find the manual focus accurate, then kindly show him on a laptop (for large magnification viewing) how to replicate your issue.



The Brisbane service centre guy is a complete moron and really knows nothing about the issue.

They send the camera in to Sydney and some anonymous technician looks at it.

I specifically wrote WASHER/SHIM for focussing screen needs adjustment.

Anyhow I sent it back today.

Not only had they not fixed it, there was a huge dust fibre on the upper side of the focus mark glass that would not shift with any amount of blowing with a blower. The focus mark glass sits above the focus screen. I saw some brass washer type things. Two of them under the glass.

Is that what the shims are? Brass?

So they can fix up the dust up in the prism/focus mark glass and hopefully sort out the shimming too.

Very frustrating. Is self help with the shims one of those things that makes the viewfinder a mess of fine dust?

Just frustrated I'll be without the camera for another three weeks.



May 15, 2009 at 02:30 AM
trumpet_guy
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


The shims/washers are thin pieces of brass. Very thin.
Canon sold me the entire set of washers for around $20,
as I recall. I just called Canon service. I am in the USA, but
I wouldn't be surprised if your Australia parts center would also
send you the whole set if you requested it.

Check out these threads:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/704641
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/705296

The part numbers quoted in that first thread are for the 5D, mark I.
But, Canon should have a set for the mark II also.

I have the whole set still sitting here; I haven't tried the procedure yet, since
my 5D is already very close to being correct, and a trial-and-error processes is
needed to tweak the focus.

I am using a Brightscreen focusing screen at the moment. It's pretty nice,
but the central split-prism doesn't quite match the perimeter ground glass.
In-focus on one means out of focus on the other. I tend to rely on the
microprism annulus.

Tim



May 15, 2009 at 02:56 AM
bushwacker
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Focussing techniques on 5D II


trumpet_guy wrote:
The shims/washers are thin pieces of brass. Very thin.
Canon sold me the entire set of washers for around $20,
as I recall. I just called Canon service. I am in the USA, but
I wouldn't be surprised if your Australia parts center would also
send you the whole set if you requested it.

Check out these threads:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/704641
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/705296

The part numbers quoted in that first thread are for the 5D, mark I.
But, Canon should have a set for the mark II also.

I have the whole set still sitting here; I haven't tried the procedure yet, since
my 5D is already very close to being correct, and a
...Show more


How did you get\order this? does canon have a site where I can just fill out the parts I need then put in my credit card?



Jun 12, 2016 at 12:44 PM
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