Wow, white Leica M8

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Archive 2009 · Wow, white Leica M8

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #1 · Wow, white Leica M8

I'm curious as to the M8.2 update. What was updated such that a new, original M8 can be had for $3995 but the .2 version is a whopping $2000 more! Same sensor with lack of IR filter? or was that fixed? Does it cost $2000 if one sends in an original M8 and has it brought up to the .2 spec? What do they do?

Sam N wrote:
kleinssz69 wrote:
I think what leica rather ought to do is sucker people into buying by offering miniscule upgrades every 6 months or so..... basically like the other camera companies

They're already doing that, except the upgrade is done to your existing camera and costs as much as a new camera from another brand. This way you can't sell your old camera once getting the upgrade. Genius.

Apr 22, 2009 at 10:11 PM

kidtexas
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p.2 #2 · Wow, white Leica M8

Sapphire LCD cover, a new quieter shutter, and more precise framelines. I don't know the individual costs on each of those, but altogether, it's about $2k in upgrades. The upgraded M8 is pretty much like the M8.2, with a couple minor differences. I think the M8.2 has another way to set exposure compensation, and a 'snapshot' mode, but other than that, they are the same. Same chip, same crummy IR filter, etc.

Apr 22, 2009 at 10:41 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #3 · Wow, white Leica M8

Thanks. Talk about "miniscule upgrades"...and it only took, what?, two years.

kidtexas wrote:
Sapphire LCD cover, a new quieter shutter, and more precise framelines. I don't know the individual costs on each of those, but altogether, it's about $2k in upgrades. The upgraded M8 is pretty much like the M8.2, with a couple minor differences. I think the M8.2 has another way to set exposure compensation, and a 'snapshot' mode, but other than that, they are the same. Same chip, same crummy IR filter, etc.

Apr 22, 2009 at 10:59 PM

rico
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p.2 #4 · Wow, white Leica M8

I'll pass on white, but something gold is in my future: Nikon FA, Leica R4, Leica M4.2, Contax RTS, Hassy, Rollei 35. Bling-o-rama!

Apr 22, 2009 at 11:19 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #5 · Wow, white Leica M8

You know white IS the new gold! You heard it here first.

Apr 22, 2009 at 11:24 PM

mawz
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p.2 #6 · Wow, white Leica M8

rico wrote:
I'll pass on white, but something gold is in my future: Nikon FA, Leica R4, Leica M4.2, Contax RTS, Hassy, Rollei 35. Bling-o-rama!

Don't forget the Pentax LX with matching SMCP-A 50/1.2

Apr 22, 2009 at 11:42 PM

dirb9
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p.2 #7 · Wow, white Leica M8

Tariq Gibran wrote:
You know white IS the new gold! You heard it here first.

So we'll be seeing lots of camera with coverings like this"

Apr 22, 2009 at 11:43 PM

kleinssz69
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p.2 #8 · Wow, white Leica M8

Tariq Gibran wrote:
Thanks. Talk about "miniscule upgrades"...and it only took, what?, two years.

Two years it is? Guess they're marketing dept. needs some hints on how to milk the consumer.

Apr 23, 2009 at 01:48 AM

Lotusm50
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p.2 #9 · Wow, white Leica M8

kleinssz69 wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Thanks. Talk about "miniscule upgrades"...and it only took, what?, two years.

Two years it is? Guess they're marketing dept. needs some hints on how to milk the consumer.

Milking the consumer. Isn't that why they painted it white?
;-)

Apr 23, 2009 at 01:51 AM

StevenPA
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p.2 #10 · Wow, white Leica M8

Bling, baby.

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Apr 23, 2009 at 02:44 AM

rico
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p.2 #11 · Wow, white Leica M8

My eyes, my eyes! Good lord, they even plated the advance lever. Okay, add LX to my list.

Apr 23, 2009 at 02:50 AM

StevenPA
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p.2 #12 · Wow, white Leica M8

More candy. I'd rather have a Blad in front of me than a frontal laBladomy.

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Apr 23, 2009 at 03:05 AM

pascal03
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p.2 #13 · Wow, white Leica M8

Alright.... I am sure these "gold" camera's can't be cheap.... and the buyer probably isn't going to be using these on a daily basis like they would with a regular camera.... I am curious as to who the heck is buying these......

Apr 23, 2009 at 05:27 AM

dirb9
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p.2 #14 · Wow, white Leica M8

pascal03 wrote:
Alright.... I am sure these "gold" camera's can't be cheap.... and the buyer probably isn't going to be using these on a daily basis like they would with a regular camera.... I am curious as to who the heck is buying these......

Collectors. That is it. Seriously.
Most manufacturus have made gold camera: Mamiya has their Lizard Skin RB67, Pentax, has the gold LX (as shown) and 645 Gold, Nikon has their F2 Gold, FM Gold, , and FA Gold, heck, even Sekonic made a Gold L-398. The differences between these and Leica, however, is that most companies do special cameras to commemorate special occasions in their history, like x million cameras made, of x many years old, however, Leica will and has made cameras for whatever the heck reason someone will pay them. Royal Danish Wedding M6? C'mon, that is being ridiculous.

Apr 23, 2009 at 06:51 AM

mh2000
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p.2 #15 · Wow, white Leica M8

Why? If you have so much money that is doesn't matter these things would be fun... and you can shoot photos with it.

If *I* won the Lotto... I think I would love a Hello Kitty Leica and a Noctilux!

makron wrote:

http://www.germancarblog.com/2009/04/audi-forum-tokyo-white-leica-m8-special.html

Don't know why Leica is (has been) doing this kind of limited editions. It's regrettable. To me, this kind of limited edition just tarnishes Leica's reputation.

Apr 23, 2009 at 06:59 AM

mh2000
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p.2 #16 · Wow, white Leica M8

>>Here's some other nauseating limited issues...

the 3rd one down is actually very beautiful. I would love to shoot that one, limited edition or not... it's just beautiful.

Apr 23, 2009 at 07:10 AM

ulrikft
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p.2 #17 · Wow, white Leica M8

kleinssz69 wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Thanks. Talk about "miniscule upgrades"...and it only took, what?, two years.

Two years it is? Guess they're marketing dept. needs some hints on how to milk the consumer.

two years for an upgrade that is not really an upgrade, is not that milking?

Apr 23, 2009 at 09:24 AM

dancam
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p.2 #18 · Wow, white Leica M8

I know I will probably get beat up by some crazed Leica or Zeiss aficionados for this but, in the current day and age do all of you really feel that Leica and Zeiss optics are that much better than Canon and Nikon. No offense to collectors and Leica and Zeiss for that matter. They do make great lenses, no doubt! But, I don't really feel that they blow other mainstream manufacturers out of the water. I've seen several comparisons where there was barely a noticeable difference between lenses. I personally feel that ownership of modern Leica or Zeiss equipment has fallen into the same sort of mystique of owning a Ferrari or Lamborghini. Just about everyone wants one, even though you can buy a Corvette for almost 1/3 the cost that outperforms or matches it. Their heritage is what drives sales. They are an "image" camera company. Yes, they make great stuff and I would be intersted in owning/using it someday. But, not professionally or even practically. Ok, and now waiting for the black eye.

Apr 23, 2009 at 10:04 AM

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p.2 #19 · Wow, white Leica M8

dancam wrote:
I know I will probably get beat up by some crazed Leica or Zeiss aficionados for this but, in the current day and age do all of you really feel that Leica and Zeiss optics are that much better than Canon and Nikon. No offense to collectors and Leica and Zeiss for that matter. They do make great lenses, no doubt! But, I don't really feel that they blow other mainstream manufacturers out of the water. I've seen several comparisons where there was barely a noticeable difference between lenses. I personally feel that ownership of modern Leica or Zeiss equipment has fallen into the same sort of mystique of owning a Ferrari or Lamborghini. Just about everyone wants one, even though you can buy a Corvette for almost 1/3 the cost that outperforms or matches it. Their heritage is what drives sales. They are an "image" camera company. Yes, they make great stuff and I would be intersted in owning/using it someday. But, not professionally or even practically. Ok, and now waiting for the black eye.

+1

The alt lens fashion grew out of disappointment with various Canon wideangles, and justified fussiness about extreme corners. Nikon's 14-24 is on a par with the famous Zeiss 21, and Canon's 16-35 mk2 was a much better lens than the mk1, if still not perfect in the corners. All lens makers make some very good lenses. Lenses from Zeiss and Leica are not always the best choice at a given focal length. But lenses also have different characters, and some photographers prefer Leica's tendency to design for rich colour, while others prefer the strong sense of 3D in many Zeiss lenses. Disregard brands and familiarise yourself with the results a lens produces so that you can choose which lenses suit you, for each task. And price.

Apr 23, 2009 at 10:45 AM

Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #20 · Wow, white Leica M8

Which Zeiss or Leica lenses have you tried? If you have not tried any Zeiss lenses, you can do so fairly cheaply used and chances are very good that you will immediately notice a difference in image character. High micro contrast and dramatically increased color detail are the common Zeiss characteristics. "Better" is a subjective matter but there is certainly a difference. No matter what you have seen regarding tests, the only way to really know is to try a lens yourself.

dancam wrote:
I know I will probably get beat up by some crazed Leica or Zeiss aficionados for this but, in the current day and age do all of you really feel that Leica and Zeiss optics are that much better than Canon and Nikon. No offense to collectors and Leica and Zeiss for that matter. They do make great lenses, no doubt! But, I don't really feel that they blow other mainstream manufacturers out of the water. I've seen several comparisons where there was barely a noticeable difference between lenses. I personally feel that ownership of modern Leica or Zeiss equipment has fallen into the same sort of mystique of owning a Ferrari or Lamborghini. Just about everyone wants one, even though you can buy a Corvette for almost 1/3 the cost that outperforms or matches it. Their heritage is what drives sales. They are an "image" camera company. Yes, they make great stuff and I would be intersted in owning/using it someday. But, not professionally or even practically. Ok, and now waiting for the black eye.

Apr 23, 2009 at 11:26 AM

thrice
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p.2 #21 · Wow, white Leica M8

I thought I was doing alright with my Canon L series lenses (and the 85/1.8, a great optic) the only alt lens I had was a 50mm. I then got a 90mm and 35mm Leica summicron and the imaging characteristics blew me away. Resolution was the big one, they didn't "look" sharper at web/small print sizes, but if I wanted to print big the amount of extra detail is staggering.

Apr 23, 2009 at 12:13 PM

kidtexas
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p.2 #22 · Wow, white Leica M8

To be fair to Leica, I do think it's pretty cool that the even upgrade the camera at all. And extend the warranty at the same time. Granted, at that price, outrageous, but it's a change from the disposable economy we have. Though I do think the prices partially reflect why we have a disposable economy - when it comes to upgrading mass produced, complicate electronic items, it's cheaper just to swap out whole boards and subassemblies than it is to troubleshoot and fix the broken resistor (etc.).

As far as Leica goes, the lenses are pretty good. Maybe not the best, but consistently good across the line. This goes for newer lenses - ones that have been designed in the last 15 years or so. They can be expensive, but a lot of people buy used. Though still expensive, at that point, they are in the same ballpark as some of the more expensive Canon/Nikon offerings. The 14-24 is in the $1800 price range. So is the 70-200 VR, the Canon 70-200/2.8 IS, the Canon 24/1.4 II, 85/1.2 II,... A lot of the other Canon offerings are up in that price range too - and let's not even talk about the super-tele's. A couple months ago, if you were willing to buy from England, you could get a brand new 50mm Summilux ASPH M, with warranty, for less than $2k.

Anyway, Leica prices HAVE gotten ridiculous, but they really weren't all that bad about 3 years ago. I think a lot of the pricing has to do with exchange rate and economies of scale. I know other small volume German manufacturers' pricing on products have basically doubled in the last 5 years due to the weakening dollar and strengthening euro. Mic manufacturer Schoeps comes to mind. Small volume manufacturers in reality aren't competing for market share - they already lost out that battle, and trying to absorb market fluctuations in order to compete like that would probably kill them. Canon can weather those storms a lot better and do what's necessary to keep costs (and profits) lower in a particular segment for the purposes of long term survival.

That being said, Leica prices are ridiculous

But the newer lenses I've used on M are fantastic. You only need one or two, and then you can pad out your kit with fantastic CV lenses.

Apr 23, 2009 at 01:46 PM

ulrikft
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p.2 #23 · Wow, white Leica M8

"I personally feel that ownership of modern Leica or Zeiss equipment has fallen into the same sort of mystique of owning a Ferrari or Lamborghini. Just about everyone wants one, even though you can buy a Corvette for almost 1/3 the cost that outperforms or matches it.

If you by "outperform" mean "can drive faster in a straight line", of course :P But give the corvette a curved road.... Even comparing the all muscle, no brain Corvette to the sexyness of a Ferrari

My gas-pedal leg twitches :P

</ot>

Apr 23, 2009 at 02:23 PM

kidtexas
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p.2 #24 · Wow, white Leica M8

Getting completely off-topic, I hear the Corvette actually does perform quite well in the curves.

Unfortunately, when it comes to comparing lenses of different manufacturers, there are three fundamental problems. The first is that, like Brainiac said, what some people value in a lens are not what other people value (sharpness, evenness across the image, vignetting, bokeh, etc.). Heck, even getting people to agree what '3D quality' is is difficult at best. I read that giant thread on that, and I don't think there were 2 people who had the same definition. (That's not to say that they didn't see something in the images that they liked...)

The second is that there is no equalizer of film anymore - comparing a Zeiss RF lens on a cropped M8 Kodak sensor is going to introduce a lot of differences compared to a Canon lens on a non-cropped (or cropped) Canon sensor. At least we can mount Nikon lenses on a Canon to take out that variable. If we all agreed to do testing on Techpan film or Velvia 50, maybe you'd find a common ground, but what's the point of that nowadays?

Lastly, and most importantly, lens tests really ultimately don't matter

There's plenty of great photography out there with kit lenses, plastic lenses, home-made lenses, lens-less lenses, etc.

Apr 23, 2009 at 02:37 PM

mawz
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p.2 #25 · Wow, white Leica M8

dancam wrote:
I know I will probably get beat up by some crazed Leica or Zeiss aficionados for this but, in the current day and age do all of you really feel that Leica and Zeiss optics are that much better than Canon and Nikon. No offense to collectors and Leica and Zeiss for that matter. They do make great lenses, no doubt! But, I don't really feel that they blow other mainstream manufacturers out of the water. I've seen several comparisons where there was barely a noticeable difference between lenses. I personally feel that ownership of modern Leica or Zeiss equipment has fallen into the same sort of mystique of owning a Ferrari or Lamborghini. Just about everyone wants one, even though you can buy a Corvette for almost 1/3 the cost that outperforms or matches it. Their heritage is what drives sales. They are an "image" camera company. Yes, they make great stuff and I would be intersted in owning/using it someday. But, not professionally or even practically. Ok, and now waiting for the black eye.

It depends on the lens. Some are pretty close. Sometimes Zeiss or Leica is actually the value leader (IE you have to pay more to get an equivalent lens out of Canon or Nikon, see the ZF 35 here), sometimes there is simply no comparison (Leica 280/4 APO, Leica 100/2.8 APO Macro or ZF 100/2 Makro-Planar), sometimes the Canikon's Actually better (fast 85's).

Zeiss stuff tends to be pretty practically priced. It's not usually cheap but its also in the same ballpark for the most part (with the exception of the ZM 15 and ZM 85, which are leica-level pricing). The Leica stuff tends to be pretty ridiculous for new pricing, but used pricing can be quite reasonable and some of their stuff is just so exotic and high-performance that the high price can be justified by the performance (the APO tele's, the Noctilux and 24/21 Summiluxes).

Apr 23, 2009 at 02:56 PM


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