When I heard others say it was a knock off, I quickly put in my order for this thing on Amazon. I really like it and couldn't justify paying $199.00 (was $299) for a Ray Flash. I saw the DIYs on youtube, but there would be too much work and cursing involved (not that I am against cursing) to make one on my own, that $60.00 is a no brainer.
deewalt I tried 47th street's website and got an error, but it seems to be available on Amazon. I sent an email to 47th street and the email hasn't bounced back. I called them and they said website non access was a server issue.
I am looking at the box right now and it does not say where it was made. Box has pictures of the flash mounted on the 580 ex ii and a camera. There was no instruction sheet with my box (not a steep learning curve here) and no pictures on how to connect it (you can easily figure it out).
I haven't posted a review on Amazon on this item, but I can tell you the 5 star review is the most accurate one -- it works and it is a great value for the price. 2 of the one star reviews hem and haw about it being a knock off or that the Amazon pic is not correct (not true) and it is pretty clear that they never ordered it. The other one star review gives the impression that they bought it, but I suspect it is a fake review. I didn't need to rubberband this to my 580ex ii. It slides right on. So I don't understand what that comment is about.
If the Coco version wasn't available, then I would pay a kid $20.00 plus the supplies to make this thing. I wouldn't pay $199.00 for it.
brett maxwell wrote:
...For those defending Rayflash, keep in mind they seem to be infringing on Kodak's patent (#20060093344).
Since I've never seen a Kodak ringflash adapter for sale, I can't say. The Ray Flash may be different enough in execution to not be an infringement, or they may have licensed from Kodak. I have no idea. (I have read the Kodak patent application, however.)
The Coco is a clear copy, right down to the mount. No question about it. There are many countries that don't have, or don't enforce, international patent law (China and India being the two biggies), but importers/distributors can still be held accountable, and US Customs has frequently siezed and destroyed shipments of counterfeit and copycat goods. (Usually, though, only big-name stuff like fake Rolex watches and Nike shoes.)
Anyway, that's all for patent attorneys and customs officers to worry about. I have no problems with people who are buying the lower-priced items for themselves since, at this moment, it appears to be legal to do so.
VPell wrote:
RayFlash could be 10 bucks and still be profitable.
I doubt it.
In addition to the materials and manufacturing costs, there're also the personnel, stocking, distributing, advertising, and profit overheads to consider.
Let's face it; I could shoot and print an 8X10 color portrait for about a buck, but I'd go broke if I tried to run a business doing so.
In addition to the materials and manufacturing costs, there're also the personnel, stocking, distributing, advertising, and profit overheads to consider.
Let's face it; I could shoot and print an 8X10 color portrait for about a buck, but I'd go broke if I tried to run a business doing so.
OK, so perhaps $10 is a stretch, but I believe Rayflash got greedy selling them at $299. Even $199 is high. At $99, I'd have bought the Rayflash months ago.
If they don't have a great patent/ lawyer, they'll either be selling them for $99 or the'll be out of business in a month or two.
I respect others intellectual property, I also hate being gouged.
i just recieved my coco ring flash. seems pretty good but i have 1 issue...
the angle of the ring and the speedlight mouth is not 90 degrees.... more like 60.... so the ring flash points upwards anyone else's is like this or is mine a defect?
J___ wrote:
i just recieved my coco ring flash. seems pretty good but i have 1 issue...
the angle of the ring and the speedlight mouth is not 90 degrees.... more like 60.... so the ring flash points upwards anyone else's is like this or is mine a defect?
What flash are you using it with? The 580 angles below 90 degrees and at that angle the Coco is vertical (parallel to the sensor plane).
brett maxwell wrote:
What flash are you using it with? The 580 angles below 90 degrees and at that angle the Coco is vertical (parallel to the sensor plane).
i have the 580ex2, it angles 7 degrees downwards. but even with the angle, the ring flash still points maybe 10 degrees upwards..
May I be excused as I step up onto this soapbox over here a sec?
[adjusts mike]
Test, 1,2,3...
[exhales]
Please don't take this as the angel from above criticizing your sins... for the record, while I'm all legit now, I've had less than legit software on my computers in he past, I've downloaded music from emule etc. etc. etc. ... so while I may have moved out of my glass house I'm not here to cast stones.
That said, I find it somewhat sad that folks who routinely have to deal with clients who devalue their work and think "hey it's just a file, why shouldn't I copy it and give it to my friends" are somehow justifying their choice to purchase a product that they believe is a ripoff of someone else's Intellectual Property.
If you feel comfortable complaining about an accessory which required design, testing on multiple camera bodies/flashes, refinements, prototyping, construction, marketing, shipping and distribution and ultimatelly sells for $199 ... how do you justify $3,000 for "taking pictures for a few hours" ?
Off the soapbox now.
I'm really not criticizing YOU. I'm criticizing US. I was a professional I.T. project manager / software developer while using ripped off software... go figure.
There are a lot of assumptions going on here. For all I know Rayflash and Coco Flash may be built by the same company, produced in the same factory. Or perhaps both are licensed by the same patent holder. I have no idea. Neither does anyone else commenting here. Just a lot of folks assuming "knock-off."
PhotosByRDD wrote:
There are a lot of assumptions going on here. For all I know Rayflash and Coco Flash may be built by the same company, produced in the same factory. Or perhaps both are licensed by the same patent holder. I have no idea. Neither does anyone else commenting here. Just a lot of folks assuming "knock-off."
Exactly. There are many things being assumed. We do not know if Rayflash purchased licensing from Kodak to use their patented idea and we do not know if Coco licensed from Rayflash. For all we know, Coco may be a subsidiary of Rayflash because they realized they could still turn a nice profit at $60 but wanted to do it under a separate name and still let people spend $200 for the "name-brand".
What we do know is that it is available by legal means from a legal and reputable retailer.
BrianO wrote:
The Ray Flash has already been reduced in price from $299 to $199; I suspect it could go lower and still be profitable, but I think they should sue the distributors of the Coco.
Similar ring flash models are available on ebay in the $60 area under a few different brand names.
VPell wrote:
RayFlash could be 10 bucks and still be profitable.
That's a little low, but $20 would be about right. The Chinese have great skill at reverse engineering and also have low cost manufacturing so at some point many third party or knock-off Asian electronic products will sell for close to their cost of materials & labour.
Some Canon knock-offs such as off-camera cords and CPE-4 battery packs are reported to be made in the same factory as the Canon stuff and are indistinguishable from the originals. The difference in pricing is often five times or greater.
So $20 is not an unreasonable number considering that style of ring flash sells on ebay for $50-60.
Copyright issues and Chinese engineering skills asides, the Coco ring flash is a great piece of lighting gear. I enjoy it for in-your-face portraits and close-up flower shots. Under the right circumstances it can produce some results that cannot be emmulated with a 'bare' flashgun.
Pretty cool.
After a couple of months of shooting with the Coco ring flash (where did they come up with that name?) I put together a review.
Well, after all this I just ordered an O-Flash from ebay for $39.99. I'll post back once I get it and run a few tests. At that price it can't hurt too much. Never wanted a Ray at the price they were charging. Would love a Bee's, but it's too much bulk to carry around. Very psyched!
J___ wrote:
i just recieved my coco ring flash. seems pretty good but i have 1 issue...
the angle of the ring and the speedlight mouth is not 90 degrees.... more like 60.... so the ring flash points upwards anyone else's is like this or is mine a defect?
That's excellent. You can recompose to eyes in the top 1/3 and the ring will be 90 degrees to the subject. Very good design in my opinion.
anyone else's is like this or is mine a defect?