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Archive 2009 · BW Films

Kiron Kid
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p.4 #1 · BW Films

I've used Tri-X, T-Max, HP-5 and Delta films over the years. But once I discovered Neopan 400, I abandoned the others. Neopan is a 'traditional" grain film. But, the grain is very fine, somewhat like that of Delta or T-Max. It's got the beautiful tonality of Tri-X and is forgiving in exposure and develoment. Give it a try. It's very nice film.

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Kiron Kid

Dec 29, 2009 at 02:52 AM

dirb9
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p.4 #2 · BW Films

williamcarter wrote:
You're gonna want this:

http://www.digitaltruth.com/chart/print.html

The "Massive Developing Chart" was my film developing bible back when I was shooting a lot of B&W (up until a few years ago). This thread has got me itching to put down the digital and pick up some film....

Hey, does anyone know where you can buy Rodinal and X-Tol these days? Are photo stores still stocking these developers?a

Rodinal was discontinued...then reintroduced, as Agfa went through various stages of insolvency. Xtol was recently discontinued in the large size (IIRC 50L), although the smaller sizes are still available. I suspect that the number of labs using large volumes of b&w developer has dropped drastically lately, as opposed to small volume home users. Both B&H and freestylephoto.biz carry both xtol and rodinal, but only freestyle will ship Rodinal (IIRC, it has to be ground shipped specially, since it is a liquid). Both will ship xtol normally, since its a powder.

Dec 29, 2009 at 06:27 AM

mh2000
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p.4 #3 · BW Films

I double the film speed and develop for 1-2 hrs room temperture w/rodinal at 1:250. I adgitate for first 30 seconds and then just let it sit until the end. I've done this with Tmax and Efke films with equally good results. I'm sure TX would be fine... though you get strong grain... not more than typical Rodinal though.

carstenw wrote:
Tariq and mh2000, I have been playing a little with Tri-X 400 in my Hasselblad, but haven't tried low-dilution stand development yet. Could you give me a quick run-down on how it is done? Any other changes to the regular development procedure?

Dec 29, 2009 at 09:46 PM

joekraft
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p.4 #4 · BW Films

Well, I am 11 shots into my first roll on my c330. I just haven't wanted to burn the last shot on the roll, but haven't had a chance to shoot the last couple of days.

I know that I am going to want to develop my own film because I'm not going to want to wait to get it back from the lab - which by the way, if someone could recommend a good/cheap mail order film lab I'd be much obliged- but that is a month or two off. Just too much post x-mas garbage around the house right now.

In the meantime, as I mentioned above, we have a pretty dark house, even in daylight hours, so a faster film would work well for me. However, we also live in Arizona, so full daylight outdoors is blazing bright. I was thinking if I just got a 2 step ND filter I could shoot 400 outside with no worries. Is this something I need to be concerned about, or can I shoot 400 outside without a filter? My max shutter speed is 1/500, so I can't really open up the lens according to the sunny 16 rule, but I don't know how forgiving 400 film is in these conditions.

Jan 05, 2010 at 11:11 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #5 · BW Films

joekraft wrote:
Well, I am 11 shots into my first roll on my c330. I just haven't wanted to burn the last shot on the roll, but haven't had a chance to shoot the last couple of days.

I know that I am going to want to develop my own film because I'm not going to want to wait to get it back from the lab - which by the way, if someone could recommend a good/cheap mail order film lab I'd be much obliged- but that is a month or two off. Just too much post x-mas garbage around the house right now.

In the meantime, as I mentioned above, we have a pretty dark house, even in daylight hours, so a faster film would work well for me. However, we also live in Arizona, so full daylight outdoors is blazing bright. I was thinking if I just got a 2 step ND filter I could shoot 400 outside with no worries. Is this something I need to be concerned about, or can I shoot 400 outside without a filter? My max shutter speed is 1/500, so I can't really open up the lens according to the sunny 16 rule, but I don't know how forgiving 400 film is in these conditions.

Just about every B&W film I have ever shot performed better when exposed one stop slower than it's rated speed. So, if your shooting something like Tri-x or even Tmaxx 400, shoot it at ISO 200. That should help you out on your bright Arizona sun as well. Do you want to shoot wide open or something? Is that why you have a need for an ND filter? Just curious.

Jan 05, 2010 at 11:58 PM

joekraft
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p.4 #6 · BW Films

No, not wide open all the time, but I would be at 1/400 at f/16 according to the sunny 16 rule, so I am immediately overexposing if I go to f/11, since I can't increase the shutter speed anymore. A big part of it too is just habit - I wouldn't dream of shooting at 400 during daylight with my digital, so it's hard to wrap my head around. I'm not sure I'll be shooting at high noon, but I definitely want to do some stuff in the non-golden hours.

If you are saying shoot it as if it is one half it's rated speed, that would mean I shoot f/16 at 200, instead of 400, so that would help some.

I'm planning on shooting smaller apertures with this one, because I want to do more sub/urban scenery with it, but I would like to be able to take advantage of more narrow DoF with medium format when the mood strikes, too.

Jan 06, 2010 at 01:13 AM

brucemuir
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p.4 #7 · BW Films

The good thing about a tlr is you can hand hold at pretty slow speeds since there's no mirror slap but with my RZ and my 'blad most of the time I need the fastest shutter possible so I shoot 400 for handholding/street work.

Todays 400 speed films are VERY clean grain wise but once you get to know your C330 you may be able to get by with a Portra 160 or or Fuji's 160S for color work and thankfully there is still a decent selection of black nd white films you can try to find a look you like.

I do rate my color stuff about 1/3 stop slower than box speed but with black and white it depends on the lighting situation and how much contrast I want and then I rate it accordingly.

Jan 06, 2010 at 01:59 AM

Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #8 · BW Films

brucemuir wrote:

I do rate my color stuff about 1/3 stop slower than box speed but with black and white it depends on the lighting situation and how much contrast I want and then I rate it accordingly.

...and, of course, how you choose to develop it. Expose for the shadows, develop for the highlights...and of course you can alter your chemistry, time, agitation etc. to get whatever contrast you want out of B&W negative film.

Jan 06, 2010 at 05:44 PM

brucemuir
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p.4 #9 · BW Films

Good points Tariq.
There are some real nice Eastern European (Foma, Efke etc) films available these days (cheaply) and if internet chatter is any indication, it appears more than a few shooters have tired of the sterile-ness of digital (I know I have) and are returning to film in some capacity or trying it for the first time which is good news for all of us.

Film is far from dead no matter how many post otherwise. It's really a shame because alot of the naysayers have never even seen a 4x5 tranny on a light table let alone 6x6 or even 35mm.

Jan 06, 2010 at 06:05 PM

raven4ns
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p.4 #10 · BW Films

You may want to look at a chromogenic film like Ilford XP2. It can be developed like any color film plus you can change the ISO at any time without worrying about push or pull processing. It is a bit contrasty but that is the way I prefer my B&W's.

Tim

Jan 06, 2010 at 06:12 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #11 · BW Films

brucemuir wrote:
Good points Tariq.
There are some real nice Eastern European (Foma, Efke etc) films available these days (cheaply) and if internet chatter is any indication, it appears more than a few shooters have tired of the sterile-ness of digital (I know I have) and are returning to film in some capacity or trying it for the first time which is good news for all of us.

Film is far from dead no matter how many post otherwise. It's really a shame because alot of the naysayers have never even seen a 4x5 tranny on a light table let alone 6x6 or even 35mm.

I agree completely. About the Eastern European films, I tried them all a few years back and some of them are outstanding. At the time I tested them, I did notice some quality control issues I have never experienced with Agfa, Fuji, Ilford or Kodak.

Jan 06, 2010 at 06:17 PM

brucemuir
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p.4 #12 · BW Films

I've read repots of pinholes in the emulsion and other QC issues but have yet to experience any myself and I've used quite a few.

My favorites right now re Fomapan 100 and Fomapan Creative T200.
Both these work really well in PMK (holds onto a WIDE dynamic range) and also nice in Rodinal.

They do have a slightly thinner base than the film stock from the big three but I have a glass neg carrier for 6x6 so I haven't had problems.

Jan 06, 2010 at 06:32 PM

Kiron Kid
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p.4 #13 · BW Films

The above snaps were just recently shot on Neopan 400CN (C-41) B/W film. Straight scans from the negs. No post processing. Kiron 70-150 lens with black Softnet filter.

Kiron Kid

Jan 08, 2010 at 05:19 AM

joekraft
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p.4 #14 · BW Films

I know I said I was planning on waiting, but if I wanted to get into developing my own, could someone recommend a good concise guide, online or otherwise? I want to start simple, obviously, but everyone says it's so easy there is no reason not to, so I might as well give it a shot.

Jan 13, 2010 at 07:02 AM

Daniel Buck
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p.4 #15 · BW Films

B&W developing is very easy! With rapid fixers (I use Arista Odorless Fixer), you don't need a chemical stop bath, so really you only need two chemicals. A developer, and a fixer (and then I also like using a few drops of wetting agent to help the film dry better)

I would try searching for developing guides with Rodinal, that's a very popular developer that works very good, and can be used in nice thin mixtures, so one bottle goes along way

(and it has a very, very long shelf life!) Alot of folks get into temperatures, but I just use cold water from the tap, it's usually about the same temperature from day to day, so it's consistent. I don't even measure the temperature. You can compensate temperature with length of time developing. After a test or two you will be in the ball park most likely :-) Rodinal 1:50 (1 part rodinal to 50 parts water) developed for 10 minutes with a bit of agitation here and there is probably a good place to start for alot of films.

www.digitaltruth.com gives recommended developing times for film & developer combinations, you can try checking there :-) www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php

Jan 13, 2010 at 07:51 AM

joekraft
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p.4 #16 · BW Films

Thanks Daniel. Will do.

Jan 13, 2010 at 08:13 AM

brucemuir
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p.4 #17 · BW Films

Rodinal gives a great edge bite but it also can be grainy for higher speed films so search flickr to make sure you can handle the grain. Really depends on if you will be scanning or printing optically and how much you enlarge. I personally like grain but some don't

D76 would be a good starting developer and it's a good standard to get to know then you can try others. It can give fine grain or diluted 1:1 for bit more sharpness. It gives better speed (EI) than rodinal in my experience but not much.

Alot of people like Xtol these days. That is another good one.

There are so many but I would standardize on 1 or 2 films and ONE developer first until you nail your process.

Have fun. Holding a physical negative is a bit more rewarding to me than hearing my hard drive click.

Jan 13, 2010 at 01:47 PM

Daniel Buck
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p.4 #18 · BW Films

yea, I have never used rodinal on 35mm, only on 4x5 and 8x10. It may be to grainy on 35mm for some, since 35mm needs to be enlarged quite a bit more than sheet film.

Jan 13, 2010 at 04:35 PM

mawz
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p.4 #19 · BW Films

Rodinal may be grainy, but it's such wonderful grain.

I use Rodinal as one of my two standard developers, it's superb for most low-ISO film and does well with medium-speed films. I use TMax Developer for high-speed films, pushing as well asthe rare occasion that I shoot TMax or Delta.

Jan 14, 2010 at 12:46 AM

Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #20 · BW Films

My favorites have always been either Rodinal or HC110, both used with stand development and usually higher dilutions.

Jan 14, 2010 at 03:29 AM

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