Considering a D3 move

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Archive 2009 · Considering a D3 move

Alistair Watson
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p.2 #1 · Considering a D3 move

SoundHound wrote:
...
Canon must soon announce a Mk IV while Nikon has shot their wad for quite some time. So don't get faked out of your shoes by switching completely to Nikon.

Interesting analogy but I take your point.

Feb 22, 2009 at 06:39 PM

Wickedfn4u
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p.2 #2 · Considering a D3 move

Yeah but the difference between canon shoting their wad and nikon, is nikon hit the target while canon did not.

Feb 22, 2009 at 06:45 PM

Alistair Watson
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p.2 #3 · Considering a D3 move

Wickedfn4u wrote:
Yeah but the difference between canon shooting their wad and nikon, is nikon hit the target while canon did not.

Feb 22, 2009 at 06:49 PM

Wickedfn4u
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p.2 #4 · Considering a D3 move

I guess when it came down to it, it was not a lens or a body but it was the company behind the name. I felt lied to and let down while they tired damage control. Had they come out and said we have a problem and we will make it right what ever it takes I would have waited. What if this was a parachute or an air bag where your life depended on it working right every time would you put up with it? I tell you when I put breaks on my race cart I check and double check to make sure it is right. When I took pictures at an event and opened them up back home I never knew what I was going to get. (with the Mk3) I never ever had one problem before with body or lens and loved the gear.

Mistakes or accidents happen, it is how you deal with them shows the metal of the company.

Feb 22, 2009 at 06:56 PM

Alistair Watson
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p.2 #5 · Considering a D3 move

And thinking about it, it looks like Canon are not going to announce a 1D3 replacement at PMA.

Which, given that I don't want a second 1D3, leaves me with a problem. Do I buy another used 1D2N or even get my current repaired (shutter & sensor), the former option would probably be cheaper anyway and limp through the summer/autumn which is my busiest time of year. Then even when the 4-series or whatever it is called is announced, after being cut my the bleeding edge once I am not going to be an early adopter again which puts my upgrade path at + 1 year.

One thing I learnt with the 1D3 incident is that reliable/proven gear is much more important to me than having the latest and greatest. And while I ran the 1D3 in isolation for the first year, I still had spent £3,000 on a product which didn't work and didn't work for almost 1 year. Luckily I continued using my 1D2N pair to do my paying work but still, it was an big headache.

Anyway, this is all a 'storm in a teacup'. I will await to hear from my dealer this week on a loan D3 and then I can see if I am happy with it.

I have set myself the budget of £4,000 for the move, after selling off all my Canon gear, which is about what a 1Ds3 would cost me right now anyway. Assuming this is possible and that I am happy with the Nikons then a move is distinct possibility.

Feb 22, 2009 at 07:05 PM

Wickedfn4u
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p.2 #6 · Considering a D3 move

Very easy if you sell yours and find good clean used it is a good trade. I think I got 3300 range for my two Mk3's and paid 3500 for bodies with under 5k clicks on them. Lens wise it was almost tit for tat. Traded my 24-70 canon for a 28-70 both were selling around 950ish at the time. Sold my 400 IS and got the 400 AF-S II. Did not need the is as I use a stick and usually shoot high enough SS. The only one I spent some bank on is the 14-24 but that is a great lens that I did not have before.

I have a feeling, but have not looked, that the Mk3 and D3 used price might be farther apart now. I know for a while for some reason the Mk3 was falling kinda fast. Then again the D700 sure is a great choice two. I could easily use 2 of those if I wanted to save a little on the bodies.

Feb 22, 2009 at 07:13 PM

Jim Sykes
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p.2 #7 · Considering a D3 move

I know this is a couple days old, but will throw my experience into the mix as well.

Recently switched from Canon to Nikon for many of the same reasons as you all. I had an early MkIII that was total crap. Sent it back to CPS several times to no avail. When I was trying to work with CPS to test out a newer version to see if I just had a bad body, they gave me a lot of run around and made it almost impossible to ever get a body to try. It never happened. CPS treated me like it was all in my mind and continued to say to the day I got rid of it that as long as the sub mirror was fixed, my camera should work fine. I guess the examples I sent them didnt convince them either. On top of it, the final straw was CPS now wanting to charge us for the privilege of being a member. Forget it.

I, like you shoot motorsports mainly. Another photographer I know had recently switched to Nikon. At a race, I was able to try out his D3 and 500 f/4 right next to my MkIII and 500 f/4 on the same corner at the same time of day back to back.

After using his Nikon for 5 minutes and reviewing the resulting photos I knew right then and there I was over Canon and switching. EVERY single shot in every burst with the Nikon was right on focus. With the Canon, you could see the focus going in and out with every single burst. Some bursts did not have a single usable image out of the three or four in the burst. Some had one, some had couple, but all had at least one out of focus image. You could literally see the camera hunting for focus.

It was so painfully obvious I pretty much had no choice.

I hope you get to test the gear and use it side by side with your Canon stuff for comparison. One word of warning though, is you NEED to figure out the right combination of focus settings on the D3. When I first got my bodies, I was starting to think something was wrong because it was not focusing like I had remembered. It was just a matter of playing with all the settings and finding the right combination.

So dont immediately cast off the D3 if initially it doesnt seem to focus like you want. Its probably just a combination of the settings and you'll need to find the right ones. Once you do it absolutely out tracks the MkIII and you'll be nothing buy happy with it.

I dont regret the move at all.

Feb 24, 2009 at 09:12 PM

Alistair Watson
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p.2 #8 · Considering a D3 move

Hey Jim, thanks for the reply.

I must admit my experience with Canon and the 1D3 incident was very similar but I have a good 1D3 now, which I do like, but don't trust as much as my 1D2Ns. As I wrote in this thread, it is difficult to consider buying a 2nd 1D3 and there is no view yet of a new model coming out, and even then I won't be a first adopter again. To be honest, not wanting another 1D3 and knowing there is nothing else 'Canon' I would consider is what is prompting me to consider the D3.

Given that I have an indicative price from my dealer for the move, which isn't as bad as I first thought, I will pursue this investigation and try to get hold of a D3 or D3x for eval asap. I appreciate it will take a while to get fully comfortable with a new body and if I have any issues I can always turn to the experts here!

Thanks again.

Feb 24, 2009 at 09:18 PM

Jim Sykes
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p.2 #9 · Considering a D3 move

My experience was similar in deciding. Likewise, I did not want to buy another MkIII, whether they consider them fixed or not...just too risky. Also, with nothing on the horizon and not wanting to be a first adopter again, I was in the same boat. With the upcoming season starting, the switch either needed to be now or would be another season of Canon since I didnt want to try to do a switch and figure out the new system mid season when I'm really busy with races. So I jumped in.

Check with NPS over there. I know that NPS was REAL aggressive here in the states and was VERY willing to lend out kits in order for possible switchers to try. I know of one photographer that has been using one for months from NPS and they've let him keep it. They were also aggressive in getting me signed up, pretty much eliminating all the normal criteria such as getting another NPS member to sponsor you and things like that. Some of the larger camera stores in the country were also supplied with kits by NPS for loaners as well so you may want to ask about that.

In any case, I'm sure they can help you get started as they're very confident that when you start to compare, you'll make the move.

Good luck with whatever your decision turns out to be.

Feb 24, 2009 at 10:34 PM

ScottSchupbach
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p.2 #10 · Considering a D3 move

Alistair,
Interesting and imformative reading here.I think your going about it the right way with trying out the D3 and 300VR. I have no doubt the 300VR is at least the equivalent of the Canon 300 IS.As far as comparing the D3 to the 1D III, your time with them will tell.
I'm in both camps right now, I sold my 1D III and picked up a D3 and 70-200 VR.I traded my 400/2.8 IS for a Nikon 400 AFS II. I sold 16-35/2.8 and 24-70/2.8 and picked up 17-35/2.8 and 28-70/2.8 Nikons. I havn't had a lot of oppurtunity to test out the D3 yet. This is kinda my slow season with Spring sports starting up at the end of next month, i'm using my time to learn the D3 with H.S. Basketball and Hockey. I was able to shoot two BB games last Friday, and on Saturday a Hockey game. Unfotunataly on Saturday the 70-200 VR's focus motor quit and now I'm back to shooting with my 1D IIN and 70-200/2.8 while it's off to Nikon for warranty repair.
So far my observations are that the D3 is a little slower aquireing focus in comparison to the 1D III, but once it locks it tracks well. To me it seems quite similar to the 1D IIN as far as quickness to lock focus. Problem is with these two games I'm shooting single shot with strobes so I can't shoot a burst to see how many frames are in focus.I did a little focus test in my backyard this weekend with the D3 and the 400/2.8 AFS II.I had my son throw a tennis ball towards me and my dog would charge after it towards me.I set the D3 to continous low at 5 frames a second and was able to fire off 7-8 frames.After three attempts I was averaging 5-6 frames sharp and in focus.I was using 21 pt. dynamic mode af. Pretty darn good considering a basically white dog with a snow background.
Good luck with your demo and I'm sure you will make the right decision.I'm looking forward to your review.

Scott

2012 © ScottSchupbach

Feb 25, 2009 at 02:05 PM

orangefirefish
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p.2 #11 · Considering a D3 move

Cute dog Scott- almost like a little snow bunny

To the OP- I'm sort of in the same boat- I've used both systems extensively (I started out shooting NIkon film, and started digital with a D70, and then a D300, before getting some 1d's) and I have to say that despite the slower AF acquisition on the D700 and D3 (even a 40D seemed to snap into focus faster), the tracking focus on the D3/700/300 is very good. The Canon cameras have been really good for AF, especially the 1d2N, but the new D3 is really, really comparable too.

At this point I'm switching back to Nikon gear for sports and PJ use, but I'm probably going to keep my 5d2 for use with alt glass and video purposes. I'm hoping to get everything sorted out before March madness begins, so hunting for a 300 VR right now.

The 70-200 2.8 VR is a good lens, but I somehow always felt it wasn't as sharp in the corners as the Canon 2.8 IS. Maybe Nikon will release a newer version of the 70-200, so I'm going to stick to a AF-D 80-200 2.8 for the time being, especially since I don't need the VR for sports.

I think you'll be happy with the Nikon combo. The D3 is amazing, but the one camera I really like in the Nikon lineup is the D700, as it packs all the pro features into a small body, with weathersealing and pro build. This is what Canon should have released- but failed to do so.

Feb 25, 2009 at 02:55 PM

ytwong
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p.2 #12 · Considering a D3 move

Scott, good dog pic. you dog looks like mine... same breed, same color, almost the same hair cut... but i'll never have her pic with snow background.

Feb 25, 2009 at 03:36 PM

Alistair Watson
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p.2 #13 · Considering a D3 move

Lovely image Scott, in challenging conditions!

Well, from all the really helpful responses to this thread, I am certainly not alone in either considering the move or actually making it, though I haven't got as far as making a decision yet. Should hear something from Nikon regarding the loan kit either tomorrow or Friday and I am still waiting for my dealer to produce me an authorised cost for the trade in and a 'cost to move'.

My biggest decision is the primary body actually, one which I thought would be fairly simple, the D3, but I am really really tempted with the D3x.

D3 14-bit NEF 9fps with 17 shot buffer
D3x 12-bit NEF 5fps with 25 shot buffer

Is my understanding correct?

Feb 25, 2009 at 04:14 PM

jmcfadden
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p.2 #14 · Considering a D3 move

actually it is more complex than you think

here is a link to Nikon and there is a 500dollar buffer upgrade path for the D3 that really makes it compelling

http://support.nikontech.com/cgi-bin/nikonusa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=15997

J

Feb 25, 2009 at 04:29 PM

James R
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p.2 #15 · Considering a D3 move

The D3 9fps is in 12-bit mode. The D3 slows down in the 14 bit mode. The D3x shoots 5fps in FX and 5:4 mode.

Feb 25, 2009 at 04:33 PM

Alistair Watson
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p.2 #16 · Considering a D3 move

Thanks alot John, I imagine Nikon UK would do that as well.....

Feb 25, 2009 at 04:33 PM

James R
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p.2 #17 · Considering a D3 move

Typo, D3x is suppose to shoot 7pfs in DX mode.

Feb 25, 2009 at 04:37 PM

davenfl
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p.2 #18 · Considering a D3 move

Alistair, first let me say I have been loyal to a fault to Canon over the years, many years and many many dollars. A few years ago a business opportunity presented itself that clearly dictated that I had to shoot Nikon gear if I wanted the business. After acquiring the first cameras it struck me that everything was backwards, at least from a Canon standpoint. The learning cycle was short and fairly easy. It was also apparent that the flash system worked, it was stupid proof. Next the autofocus seemed very nice. I began a slow and continous journey with my left foot in the Canon camp and my right in the Nikon. Both systems are capable of magnificent images and worthy of praise, I still shoot both. I love, really love the images the 5DMk2 pumps out as well as the 1D/1Ds. That said if I have to shoot anything that's moving or use a flash system out of studio and don't have time to rethink every shot and fool around I pickup the Nikon D700 or D3 each and everytime. Nikon has built a pair of camera's that are at least equal, if not better, than Canon and the autofocus is scary good. Maybe the next Canon will be a miracle but if you cannot wait or guess the switch is fairly painless, except for cash, and you are buying into one heck of a system that will not let you down.

Feb 25, 2009 at 04:53 PM

Alistair Watson
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p.2 #19 · Considering a D3 move

Well, an interesting update.

Thought I would call NPS today to find out about loan equipment. Spent 20 minutes looking on the Europe Nikon website, couldn't find any contact number, and because I don't already own Nikon equipment obviously I cannot log onto the website.

Ended up going through to technical support, which wasn't a bad thing as I wanted to ask about the buffer expansion, they hadn't a clue what I was talking about. Explained I wanted to talk to NPS and was asked 'Why?'. I explained, got transferred to the wrong department, eventually got through to NPS but it seemed most of the people weren't available or had already gone home. Explained that I wanted to eval a D3x and a 300/2.8 VR, 'nope sorry sir, we don't eval the D3x at the moment or the 300 VR, we send you a kit of lenses'. After asking more questions it seems the only big prime is the 400/2.8 VR and the D3, no bad thing. But then in giving contact details it seemed like - we will see if you are worthy sir and may get back to you next week!!

Sheesh, talk about going round the houses to get some information, especially when looking at dropping £16K as an initial Nikon spend and more later in the year!!

This doesn't exactly fill me with confidence, however good the product is, and more than likely this is just a UK thing where there is rarely ever any sense of customer service these days.

Very unimpressed with my first 'Nikon UK experience'.

Feb 25, 2009 at 06:41 PM

Chris Dees
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p.2 #20 · Considering a D3 move

This really doesn't sound good.
NPS overhere is always very cooperative.
I can loan equipment when I want (and they have it

)
I'll ask my NPS-contact for a name/number in England.

Feb 25, 2009 at 07:18 PM

rbranan
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p.2 #21 · Considering a D3 move

I shot nikon before but had nothing but problems with the D2H. My friend at one of the largest agencies also went through this debacle, so I wasn't the only one. We both swore off Nikon and made the EXPENSIVE switch to Canon. All was wonderful until I stupidly decided to 'upgrade' to a mark 3. after three cameras and 1000's of out of focus images i knew i would either go backwards to a mark 2 or check out the D3. Btw, i shoot sports -- all of them at the pro level for agencies and direct mag clients.

okay, so i kept reading about the D3 and low ISO performance--perfect for night NFL, MLB and Hockey. Plus some of the guys i know who shot the olympics raved about the 200-400. another BIG financial hit and i switched. yes the 70-200 is not perfect, but for what i do, it is GREAT. sharp as can be and I can trim off the corners so no problem. the 200-400 is wonderful in daylight--amazing for a PGA event i just did. Can't wait to use it for tennis and baseball. the D3 is working like a charm (read my other thread response about refurb issues on a back up body). functionally, I have all I need and NPS is great.

ok, was it worth it? not sure--it is EXPENSIVE to switch. what if canon does come out with a killer body in the next 6-12 months?--they should and probably will. if so, you loose on resale of your Mark 3 but save BIG on keeping all that canon glass. Long Nikon glass is way more expensive than Canon. I would say that unless you need the high ISO performance, hang in there. (and use your Mk2 for sports)

Feb 25, 2009 at 07:42 PM

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p.2 #22 · Considering a D3 move

I agree with SoundHound. I am thinking of running a dual system later this year by getting a D700, 14-24, 24-70 and 70-200VR or 80-200. IF Canon releases a 1DMkX at the end of this year, it may be worth the wait before switching.

Remember, you can mount Nikkor glass on your Canon, but won't have AF.

Feb 25, 2009 at 08:16 PM

Alistair Watson
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p.2 #23 · Considering a D3 move

Chris Dees wrote:
This really doesn't sound good.
NPS overhere is always very cooperative.
I can loan equipment when I want (and they have it

)
I'll ask my NPS-contact for a name/number in England.

Chris, if you wouldn't mind, I would really appreciate that.

Many thanks.

Alistair

Feb 25, 2009 at 08:23 PM

Jim Sykes
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p.2 #24 · Considering a D3 move

Do you have a good dealer you deal with a lot? If so, they should be able to give you the contact info for someone at NPS and get your right in. In my case, a dealer I work with gave me an email for someone specific at NPS, I emailed and got an instant response back, told them this dealer referred me and they were more than helpful.

Might be something to try.

Feb 25, 2009 at 10:23 PM

Alistair Watson
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p.2 #25 · Considering a D3 move

Thanks Jim, I am going to chase up my dealer tomorrow.

Feb 25, 2009 at 10:24 PM


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